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CasaManzana
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Great SF Chronicle article on tourist safety in Mexico
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/08/21/...
(edit...looks like you will have to copy and paste to get this)
[Edited on 8-29-2011 by CasaManzana]
[Edited on 8-29-2011 by BajaNomad]
Things are expensive, but at least we get a free trip around the sun once a year
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Mexray
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"Great" article? Sorry I'm not in that camp...
...Casa, It seems to me that the 'left' leaning SF Chronicle is playing with the statistics to mask the atrocities currently being suffered by Mexican
bystanders...
Using the Mexican 'deaths per 100,000 population and comparing to Washington DC is a joke! The DF Mexico City is the largest concentration of people
in the world, and hardly compares with the few 100,000 people in Washington DC city limits!
Let's have the raw numbers of murders to compare - then make your own conclusions...
How many 'innocents' or 'bystanders' have been killed in both areas?
I know the 'bad' press is killing the Mexican tourist industry, but you'd have to have your head in the sand to ignore completely the amount of
violence below the border, and not factor it into any plans to visit some parts of Mexico!
According to my clock...anytime is \'BAJA TIME\' & as Jimmy Buffett says,
\"It doesn\'t use numbers or moving hands It always just says now...\"
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Woooosh
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I dunno. imho this article says portions of Mexico are safe for tourism, but they also said Baja California Norte was not among them.
"And while parts of Mexico can be legitimately likened to a war zone, drug violence afflicts 80 of the country's 2,400 municipalities (equivalent to
counties). Their locations have been well publicized: along the U.S. border in northern Baja California,
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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CortezBlue
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I did the research on my own.
For 2010 Baja vs AZ murder rate per 100000 people, Baja murder rate per 100000 people was almost half of AZ
Now I am sure that if you broke it down by county TJ and Maricopa county would be a toss up
BTW it was easy to find the numbers through google search
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Roberto
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Could you break those figures down? Because our results seem to differ. What I get (for 2009) is:
Arizona (Chandler, Glendale, Mesa, Phoenix, Tucson): 5.2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_r...
Baja (Baja California, Baja California Sur): 19
http://www.icesi.org.mx/documentos/estadisticas/estadisticas...
This is murder rate /100000
I am pretty sure that there will be objections to these stats. To anticipate some, icesi is the Instituto Ciudadano de Estudios Sobre la Inseguridad,
A.C.
or:
Civic Institute of Studies on Lack of Security (no real translation for Inseguridad)
[Edited on 8-30-2011 by Roberto]
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JoeJustJoe
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Mexray wrote: Let's have the raw numbers of murders to compare - then make your own conclusions... How many 'innocents' or 'bystanders' have
been killed in both areas?
Go ahead and get your raw number on the innocents and bystanders that are killed. And don't forget the American tourists too.
The fact the San Francisco article is accurate.
Most of the drug cartel killings are concentrated is certain regions of Mexico, and if you take away the two regions with the highest death toll,
and the death toll for the other six or so regions goes way way down.
The fact is most of the drug cartel killings involve the drug cartels fighting each other, or the people killed are involved with the drug cartels or
other illegal activities where a lot of money in involved.
Rarely are innocent bystanders targeted that have no connection to the drug cartels at all, although innocent bystanders do get killed at times, but
those number aren't high enough to justify telling all American tourists to stay out of Mexico because their very lives are at risk.
In fact killings of American tourists and expats in Mexico not involved in illegal activity is very low. You probably have more of a chance getting
killed in a auto accident if you're an American then you do getting killed by a Mexican drug cartel member.
------------------
This is murder rate /100000
Does anybody actually go by the murder rate of 100,000 before deciding which part of Mexico you're going to visit?
" Oh honey look at this. Tourist destination A has a murder rate of 5 per 100,000 but destination B has only a murder of of 4 per 100,000 and so
therefore is much safer. Honey, better yet we stay home, because where we live the murder rate is only 3 per every 100,000."
Of course the anti-Mexico "alarmists" just love to use the murder rate of every 100,000 to try to scare tourist away from visiting many safe tourist
destinations in Mexico.
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Roberto
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Joe,
There were some statistics cited. My numbers are different. I did not create the 100,000 figure or anything else, I'm just saying my numbers are
different and wanted to see where CortezBlue got his.
Don't understand what the X100,000 figure has anything to do with anything - it's just the way these are reported by the government.
Sounds like what you're really saying is that we should try to filter out and disregard the cartel killings?
Dude, I go and work in Tijuana at least twice a week, and have a place quite a bit further south than that, regardless of the statistics. But ignoring
reality doesn't change it, nor does listing them make one an alarmist. Trying to cover them up - well, that's another story.
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DENNIS
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What purpose does it serve to compare these figures? They don't mean much standing alone. Perhaps the circumstances would be as, or more relevant.
Mass graves and butchering, for instance?
How about ethnicity? I'm starting to wonder if murder is a form of communication for Hispanics.
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Roberto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
What purpose does it serve to compare these figures? They don't mean much standing alone. Perhaps the circumstances would be as, or more relevant.
Mass graves and butchering, for instance?
How about ethnicity? I'm starting to wonder if murder is a form of communication for Hispanics. |
In and of itself, nothing. There are different areas, different situations, different levels of risk. It's information. Do with it what you will.
[Edited on 8-30-2011 by Roberto]
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
Probably not much, other than information. What purpose does it serve to pretend that they are other than what they are? |
Well..I agree that everything should be laid out on the table for all to see. Hide nothing....include everything. Not just bits and pieces.
That is my point.
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durrelllrobert
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
Could you break those figures down? Because our results seem to differ. What I get (for 2009) is:
Arizona (Chandler, Glendale, Mesa, Phoenix, Tucson): 5.2
This is murder rate /100000
[Edited on 8-30-2011 by Roberto] |
Huh?
The murder rates given for the AZ cities cited are per 1000 population and total 0.26. Therefore the rate per 100,000 is 26 not 5.2.
In contrast, the 2009 murders for the entire state of Wyoming (the wild west) was 13 and with a population of 544,270 = 2.39 per 100,000.
[Edited on 9-1-2011 by durrelllrobert]
Attachment: 2009 Az murder.doc (29kB)
This file has been downloaded 347 times
Bob Durrell
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Lobsterman
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http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jan/15/murders-san-d...
http://www.sandiegored.com/noticias/18015/15-people-killed-i...
You can do just about anything with statistics if you know what the answer is that you are trying to convince others is true.
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CortezBlue
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
Joe,
There were some statistics cited. My numbers are different. I did not create the 100,000 figure or anything else, I'm just saying my numbers are
different and wanted to see where CortezBlue got his.
Don't understand what the X100,000 figure has anything to do with anything - it's just the way these are reported by the government.
Sounds like what you're really saying is that we should try to filter out and disregard the cartel killings?
Dude, I go and work in Tijuana at least twice a week, and have a place quite a bit further south than that, regardless of the statistics. But ignoring
reality doesn't change it, nor does listing them make one an alarmist. Trying to cover them up - well, that's another story. |
Roberto
I am looking back to see if I can find the documentation. I did find one that showed 5.2 per 100000.
I will keep looking to see if I can find it.
Stay Tuned
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Roberto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
Could you break those figures down? Because our results seem to differ. What I get (for 2009) is:
Arizona (Chandler, Glendale, Mesa, Phoenix, Tucson): 5.2
This is murder rate /100000
[Edited on 8-30-2011 by Roberto] |
Huh?
The murder rates given for the AZ cities cited are per 1000 population and total 0.24. Therefore the rate per 100,000 is 24 not 5.2.
In contrast, the 2009 murders for the entire state of Wyoming (the wild west) was 13 and with a population of 544,270 = 2.39 per 100,000.
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You're right - when calculating I did not take into account different population counts (oops).
But I dug some more and here are numbers for the entire state (Az and all others).
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/azcrime.htm
According to this murders per 100,000 in AZ for 2009 = 5.4. Interesting is that numbers are down from 7.0 the previous year.
Same as last post: http://www.icesi.org.mx/documentos/estadisticas/estadisticas... still shows:
Baja California: 24
Baja California Sur: 14
thanks for catching that.
[Edited on 9-1-2011 by Roberto]
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JESSE
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This is a ridiculous debate.
Its obvious theres many parts of Mexico that i wouldn't even want to drive tru, much less visit. And its also true that many parts of Mexico like baja
sur, are far safer than most cities in the US.
Theres nothing to argue about
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Roberto
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Thank you for your wisdom, Jesse. Next time I want to talk about something, I'll save myself some time and just ask you if it's worthwhile or not, oh
all-knowing one.
BTW, there was no argument. Just a discussion of data.
And when you talk about most cities in the US, just how many have YOU lived in?
As far as "far safer" I'm curious to know how you measure that? If not murders - robbery? burglary? theft?
[Edited on 9-1-2011 by Roberto]
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
Anybody ever tell you you're a mean drunk, DENNIS? |
Let's not be truncating those big words here, Robby. I know you can handle three sylables without your goomba mindset turning to over-cooked pasta.
It's meaningful.....M-E-A-N-I-N-G-F-U-L.
OK....say the word clearly, spell it, then return to your seat and quietly await your next turn.
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
And when you talk about most cities in the US, just how many have YOU lived in?
[Edited on 9-1-2011 by Roberto] |
New York, Los Angeles, San Diego, Kansas City, and Seattle.
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
As far as "far safer" I'm curious to know how you measure that? If not murders - robbery? burglary? theft?
[Edited on 9-1-2011 by Roberto] |
I measure it by how i can walk downtown at 4am and have no problem in 7yrs, by how i don't lock my doors or windows at night, and by how my neighboors
kids move around the neighboorhood with no worries whatsoever. In fact, the only place i have ever felt safer than down here in La Paz, is in one of
those middle of nowhere towns population 300, anywhere in Baja.
Baja sur is without a doubt, one of the safest places in northamerica, if not the world.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
New York, Los Angeles, San Diego, Kansas City, and Seattle. |
You should be getting a disability check for having lived in a few of those places.
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