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Mengano
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Mexico's President Calderon says drug cartels threaten democracy
REPORTING FROM MEXICO CITY -- President Felipe Calderon acknowledged Sunday that despite five years of battling drug cartels, criminals today pose "an
open threat" to Mexico's democratic order (link in Spanish).
In a candid speech marking the start of his sixth and last year in the presidency, Calderon said interference in elections by drug gangs "is a new
fact, a worrisome fact." "It is a threat to everyone," he said.
He was apparently alluding to last month's local elections in Michoacan, Calderon's home state, where traffickers and their henchmen
intimidated voters and told people whom to vote for. Those events have led to fears about further meddling in July's presidential vote.
Calderon defended his decision to deploy the military to fight the cartels and scolded "political forces" that don't have the "vision" to support the
struggle.
"This is a problem, friends, that has been developing for decades and that is showing us its true face, a face of violence, a face of evil," Calderon
said. Violence and insecurity, he added, "are one of the greatest challenges Mexico has faced in modern history."
Since Calderon took office in December 2006, more than 40,000 people have been killed in fighting with and among drug gangs, and thousands of Mexicans
have gone missing or been forced to flee hometowns.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2011/12/mexicos-pr...
Not mentioned in this article is that President Calderon's sister, Luisa Maria Calderon, was running for governor of Michoacan and it was she that the
drug cartels made lose the election.
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ELINVESTIG8R
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IF I WERE PRESIDENT OF MEXICO THIS IS HOW I WOULD CLEAN IT UP.
DO YOU HAVE A PLAN?
NOTE: This is a very simplified version on how to clean up Mexico. Many additional elements will have to be in place before attempting such a move,
like obtaining the cooperation of the United States and the countries of Belize and Guatemala. Also how to come up with sanitized police to leave
behind once an area is cleaned out. This is just put out here as food for thought and is not the only solution. I have included a map of Mexico
depicting a rudimentary troop deployment. Nothing is in concrete and all can be modified as needed.
I would call it: Operación Marcha de Justicia (Operation March of Justice)
If I was the President of Mexico I would assemble the leaders of the Legislative and Judicial Branches of Government to consult with them to determine
my powers to clean up Mexico. If I am legally authorized to suspend the constitution and civil liberties of the people I would then assemble all of my
senior General Officers from each branch of my Armed Forces and all the heads of my federal law enforcement.
Each would be subjected to a polygraph to confirm they have not been corrupted. All will confer with each other to determine the logistics of how to
take back and clean up Mexico from the criminal element starting at the borders of Guatemala and Belize trekking NorthWest toward the state of Baja
California. I will use all of my Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, all of their reserves and Federal Law Enforcement.
Once in place at the aforementioned borders I will make an official declaration of war against the cartels and criminal element plaguing Mexico and
invoke Article 29 of the Mexican Constitution suspending all rights, establish martial law and curfews.
My Armed Forces will commence a sweep across Mexico searching every home every rancho every building and under every rock arresting and/or killing the
heads of the cartels and their henchmen. Once each state has been cleaned out I will restore the constitution and leave behind a "Clean" Municipal,
State and Federal Police force to keep the ground my military has cleaned out.
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gnukid
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Hmmm something is wrong here. Who is running the cartel?
http://news.yahoo.com/us-agents-laundered-drug-money-report-...
US agents laundered drug money: report
AFP – 22 hrs ago
Anti-narcotics agents working for the US government have laundered or smuggled millions of dollars in drug proceeds to see how the system works and
use the information against Mexican drug cartels, The New York Times reported Sunday.
Citing unnamed current and former federal law enforcement officials, the newspaper said the agents, primarily with the Drug Enforcement
Administration, have handled shipments of hundreds of thousands of dollars in illegal cash across borders.
Some 45,000 people have been killed in Mexico since 2006, when its government launched a major military crackdown against the powerful drug cartels
that have terrorized border communities as they battled over lucrative smuggling routes.
According to these officials, the operations were aimed at identifying how criminal organizations move their money, where they keep their assets and,
most important, who their leaders are, the report said.
The agents had deposited the proceeds in accounts designated by traffickers, or in shell accounts set up by agents, the paper noted.
While the DEA conducted such operations in other countries, it began doing so in Mexico only in the past few years, The Times said.
As it launders drug money, the agency often allows cartels to continue their operations over months or even years before making seizures or arrests,
the report said.
According to The Times, agency officials declined to publicly discuss details of their work, citing concerns about compromising their investigations.
But Michael Vigil, a former senior official who is currently working for a private contracting company called Mission Essential Personnel, is quoted
by the paper as saying: "We tried to make sure there was always close supervision of these operations so that we were accomplishing our objectives,
and agents weren’t laundering money for the sake of laundering money."
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sanquintinsince73
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I like your idea but I would also consult with the next American President and request that he sign an executive order declaring the situation in
Mexico a "clear and present danger" to our own national security. With or without our congress' approval, I would station American forces all along
the border. A massive American presence all along the border. Sealed tighter than a bulls arse during fly season.
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Iflyfish
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This is a Gorilla war taking place in urban as well as rural areas. How well did the Viet Nam war work for first the French then the USofA;
Afghanistan for the Russians and then the USofA? What are the successful presidents for wars like this?
How well has the legislation of morality ever worked? Have we stomped out prostitution? How about alcoholism with Prohibition? How about Tobacco use?
Public education and the use of social sanction, shame and laws protecting the places where tobacco can be used have had a major impact on tobacco use
in the USofA. Making tobacco illegal would not stop its use nor would a War on Tobacco.
The real game changer would be the legalization of drug use and the treatment of those who suffer from addiction to these drugs. How long will it take
for us to see the self defeat we have suffered in this hugely expensive and failed War On Drugs.
Iflyfish
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sanquintinsince73
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....or we can lend Calderon a couple thousand of these guys....
http://youtu.be/S06nIz4scvI
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Mengano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
The real game changer would be the legalization of drug use and the treatment of those who suffer from addiction to these drugs.
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Hello? Marijuana was legalized in quite a few places, California for one. It is also legal in Mexico for users and is not a criminal offense. Yet
every street in every town in Mexico is "owned"by some drug cartel which sells the "derecho de piso" to somebody for the right to sell drugs on the
street. And treatment for drug addiction has been around as for as long as there has been drugs. Have you never heard of a methadone clinic? In most
states, first offenders for drug use do not go to jail. They go to drug diversion programs and even get their records wiped clean if the complete the
program.
In spite of all that, drug use continues unabated. So, if you are going to propose a program to solve the drug problem, at least spend a few minutes
getting to understand it and understand what has already been done before and failed.
And when you get past that, then you have to tell us all how legalizing drugs will stop all the other organized crime activities in Mexico. What about
the extortion rings in every city? Ask Woooosh where his cousin's head ended up when he didn't pay for the right to sell tacos. What about the
prostitution and human trafficking? How will you stop the car theft rings? The systematic looting of Pemex? The kidnapping rings?
Repeating these 20-second sound bites on legalizing drugs that are mindlessly chanted are of no use.
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Woooosh
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thanks for not posting the photo.
It is about money, not drugs. Drugs are just the tool used to get the money. As Mengano points out- there are other ways to get money that are more
dangerous to Mexican society than drugs.
[Edited on 12-5-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
thanks for not posting the photo.
It is about money, not drugs. Drugs are just the tool used to get the money. As Mengano points out- there are other ways to get money that are more
dangerous to Mexican society than drugs.
[Edited on 12-5-2011 by Woooosh] |
How profound, " it's about money, not drugs?"
No duh.
---------------
sanquintinsince73 wrote:
I like your idea but I would also consult with the next American President and request that he sign an executive order declaring the situation
in Mexico a "clear and present danger" to our own national security. With or without our congress' approval, I would station American forces all along
the border. A massive American presence all along the border. Sealed tighter than a bulls arse during fly season.
What's the clear and present danger? That many young kids like to smoke Marijuana, and do other drugs that come elsewhere. I hear the DEA new priority
is "prescription pills." My white drug dealing neighbors sell mostly prescription drugs. Hey nothing like Xanax. Hey take a "Xanny' and some alcohol
and all your troubles go away.......at least for a little while before addiction sets in and you need more and more. Prescription drugs are often way
way more dangerous than Marijuana or even other types of illegal drugs.
Closing the border is non-sense it's not going to stop illegal immigration or drugs. Besides there is no real spill over yet, and the boarder cities
are no more dangerous than inland cities.
Mengano wrote: In spite of all that, drug use continues unabated. So, if you are going to propose a program to solve the drug problem, at
least spend a few minutes getting to understand it and understand what has already been done before and failed. And when you get past that, then you
have to tell us all how legalizing drugs will stop all the other organized crime activities in Mexico. What about the extortion rings in every city?
Ask Woooosh where his cousin's head ended up when he didn't pay for the right to sell tacos. What about the prostitution and human trafficking? How
will you stop the car theft rings? The systematic looting of Pemex? The kidnapping rings?
The fact is the US/Mexico "war on drugs" has been a total failure and hasn't stopped the drug flow, or the end users( American junkies) from getting
any drug they want.
The Mexican drug cartels are falling all over themselves serving the American's insatiable appetite for drugs. America fuels the drug violence in
Mexico by buying billions of dollars worth of drugs and that money goes back to Mexico. The USA supplies almost all the assault weapons that arms the
Mexican drug cartels. ( Sorry we get story after story the weapons are coming from the US directly and indirectly)
The US spends a very very small percentage on the DEMAND side of the illegal drug trade. I'm talking about treatment programs for addicted drug users,
and I'm talking about good programs too. Almost all the millions of dollars to fight this drug war is OFFENSE and taking the fight to the drug dealers
and jailing drug users.
Legalizing drugs will go a long way towards fighting this drug war. Nothing is accomplished my jailing drug users and it's a waste of tax payer money.
America needs to spend more money on the "DEMAND" side of this drug problem.
Kidnapping and sex trafficking doesn't bring in the kind of money that illegal drug selling does. The return on kidnapping takes a long time compared
to a drug sale. Sex Trafficking is often sensationalized in the news. According to articles I read "all" sex workers are underage sex slaves, and
that's just not true.
[Edited on 12-5-2011 by JoeJustJoe]
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sanquintinsince73
Super Nomad
Posts: 1494
Registered: 6-8-2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
thanks for not posting the photo.
It is about money, not drugs. Drugs are just the tool used to get the money. As Mengano points out- there are other ways to get money that are more
dangerous to Mexican society than drugs.
[Edited on 12-5-2011 by Woooosh] |
How profound, " it's about money, not drugs?"
No duh.
---------------
sanquintinsince73 wrote:
I like your idea but I would also consult with the next American President and request that he sign an executive order declaring the situation
in Mexico a "clear and present danger" to our own national security. With or without our congress' approval, I would station American forces all along
the border. A massive American presence all along the border. Sealed tighter than a bulls arse during fly season.
What's the clear and present danger? That many young kids like to smoke Marijuana, and do other drugs that come elsewhere. I hear the DEA new priority
is "prescription pills." My white drug dealing neighbors sell mostly prescription drugs. Hey nothing like Xanax. Hey take a "Xanny' and some alcohol
and all your troubles go away.......at least for a little while before addiction sets in and you need more and more. Prescription drugs are often way
way more dangerous that Marijuana.
Closing the border is non-sense it's not going to stop illegal immigration or drugs. Besides there is no real spill over yet, and the boarder cities
are no more dangerous than inland cities.
Mengano wrote: In spite of all that, drug use continues unabated. So, if you are going to propose a program to solve the drug problem, at
least spend a few minutes getting to understand it and understand what has already been done before and failed. And when you get past that, then you
have to tell us all how legalizing drugs will stop all the other organized crime activities in Mexico. What about the extortion rings in every city?
Ask Woooosh where his cousin's head ended up when he didn't pay for the right to sell tacos. What about the prostitution and human trafficking? How
will you stop the car theft rings? The systematic looting of Pemex? The kidnapping rings?
The fact is the US/Mexico "war on drugs" has been a total failure and hasn't stopped the drug flow, or the end users( American junkies) from getting
any drug they want.
The Mexican drug cartels are falling all over themselves serving the American's insatiable appetite for drugs. America fuels the drug violence in
Mexico by buying billions of dollars worth of drugs and that money goes back to Mexico. The USA supplies almost all the assault weapons that arms the
Mexican drug cartels. ( Sorry we get story after story the weapons are coming from the US directly and indirectly)
The US spends a very very small percentage on the DEMAND side of the illegal drug trade. I'm talking about treatment programs for addicted drug users,
and I'm talking about good programs too. Almost all the millions of dollars to fight this drug war is OFFENSE and taking the fight to the drug dealers
and jailing drug users.
Legalizing drugs will go a long way towards fighting this drug war. Nothing is accomplished my jailing drug users and it's a waste of tax payer money.
America needs to spend more money on the "DEMAND" side of this drug problem.
Kidnapping and sex trafficking doesn't bring in the kind of money that illegal drug selling does. The return on kidnapping takes a long time compared
to a drug sale. Sex Trafficking is often sensationalized in the news. According to articles I read "all" sex workers are underage sex slaves, and
that's just not true. |
Legalizing drugs? Just what we need, a bunch of long-haired, stoned, bohemian free-thinkers driving the same freeways I do.
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mcfez
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
The real game changer would be the legalization of drug use and the treatment of those who suffer from addiction to these drugs.
|
Hello? Marijuana was legalized in quite a few places, California for one. It is also legal in Mexico for users and is not a criminal offense. Yet
every street in every town in Mexico is "owned"by some drug cartel which sells the "derecho de piso" to somebody for the right to sell drugs on the
street. And treatment for drug addiction has been around as for as long as there has been drugs. Have you never heard of a methadone clinic? In most
states, first offenders for drug use do not go to jail. They go to drug diversion programs and even get their records wiped clean if the complete the
program.
In spite of all that, drug use continues unabated. So, if you are going to propose a program to solve the drug problem, at least spend a few minutes
getting to understand it and understand what has already been done before and failed.
And when you get past that, then you have to tell us all how legalizing drugs will stop all the other organized crime activities in Mexico. What about
the extortion rings in every city? Ask Woooosh where his cousin's head ended up when he didn't pay for the right to sell tacos. What about the
prostitution and human trafficking? How will you stop the car theft rings? The systematic looting of Pemex? The kidnapping rings?
Repeating these 20-second sound bites on legalizing drugs that are mindlessly chanted are of no use. |
The U.S. attorneys for the four federal districts in California are conducting a coordinated crackdown on medical marijuana dispensaries this week,
according to a law-enforcement official who wasn’t authorized to discuss the matter publicly. The effort is limited to California, the official said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-07/california-pot-clin...
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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Woooosh
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The Colorado model for dispensing medical pot would have been better. The state grows what it sells and has cameras in all the stores- guaranteeing
the revenues for the state are collected. California is a free for all. The pot dispensaries are being threatened and all the excess pot is now
going south to Mexico to be sold. How ironic.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Oddjob
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It's difficult to imagine how things will be in Mexico in three or four years. You would need a crystal ball.
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Iflyfish
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
The real game changer would be the legalization of drug use and the treatment of those who suffer from addiction to these drugs.
|
Hello? Marijuana was legalized in quite a few places, California for one. It is also legal in Mexico for users and is not a criminal offense. Yet
every street in every town in Mexico is "owned"by some drug cartel which sells the "derecho de piso" to somebody for the right to sell drugs on the
street. And treatment for drug addiction has been around as for as long as there has been drugs. Have you never heard of a methadone clinic? In most
states, first offenders for drug use do not go to jail. They go to drug diversion programs and even get their records wiped clean if the complete the
program.
In spite of all that, drug use continues unabated. So, if you are going to propose a program to solve the drug problem, at least spend a few minutes
getting to understand it and understand what has already been done before and failed.
And when you get past that, then you have to tell us all how legalizing drugs will stop all the other organized crime activities in Mexico. What about
the extortion rings in every city? Ask Woooosh where his cousin's head ended up when he didn't pay for the right to sell tacos. What about the
prostitution and human trafficking? How will you stop the car theft rings? The systematic looting of Pemex? The kidnapping rings?
Repeating these 20-second sound bites on legalizing drugs that are mindlessly chanted are of no use. |
I am not so naive as to assume that legalization of drugs would solve ALL social and legal problems that exist in Mexico. I also agree that there is a
likelihood that the criminal gangs of Mexico would engage in other ways to acquire revenue. There are serious and yet to be resolved issues with both
the law enforcement and judicial systems in Mexico that legalization would not address.
I appreciate that you would consider my comments to be “sound bites”. I have never been able to produce a simple sentence that a “sound bite” would
require, so I consider your comment to be a compliment of my clarity.
I am not alone in my views regarding the potential positive impact of legalization of drugs. If you go to the following link you will find scores of
Law Enforcement Professionals who share my perspective. These people are seasoned professionals and reasoned people. I hope you will take the time to
inform yourself of their perspective.
Learn more: http://www.leap.cc/
There are also World Leaders who also propose legalization and I would also encourage you to familiarize yourself with their perspectives. The Global
Commission on Drug Policy responsible for the report includes: former Brazilian president Fernando Cardoso; former Colombian president Cesar Gaviria;
Mexico's former president Ernesto Zedillo; ex-UN chief Kofi Annan; former Chairman of the US Federal Reserve and of the Economic Recovery Board Paul
Volcker; former U.S. Secretary of State George Schultz; Mario Vargas Llosa; Carlos Fuentes; and Richard Branson.
Learn more: http://tinyurl.com/89yesc8
Legalization is not just a pipe dream or Liberal utopian fantasy but a legitimate alternative to a failed policy that has gone on for decades and has
cost billions of dollars and untold numbers of lives lost or broken by this wrongheaded approach.
Iflyfish
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goldhuntress
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This is a link to video interviews on "Mexico's drug war" on the LA Times website. Jorge Chabat has his opinion on legalizing drugs. He is an
economist and has studied drug trafficking for over 20 years.
http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/question-and-a...
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Ken Bondy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
The real game changer would be the legalization of drug use and the treatment of those who suffer from addiction to these drugs.
|
In spite of all that, drug use continues unabated. So, if you are going to propose a program to solve the drug problem, at least spend a few minutes
getting to understand it and understand what has already been done before and failed.
|
Legalization has been "..done before and failed."???? I must have missed that. To those of us who realize that legalization is the only solution to
the drug problem, "legalization" is not just a few pot shops in isolated jurisdictions where you have to claim to be ill to get some. Legalization is
a national commitment wherein all drugs are legal and the profits from those drugs go to education and treatment. Only when the illegal profits are
eliminated will the crime and violence associated with drugs disappear. Legalization will not substantially change the amount of users. Every
society in history has had its intoxicants and that will not change. It is just as easy to get illegal drugs now as it will be when they are
legalized. It is making drugs illegal that has been "...done before and failed", not the reverse.
carpe diem!
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Mengano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
I am not alone in my views regarding the potential positive impact of legalization of drugs. If you go to the following link you will find scores of
Law Enforcement Professionals who share my perspective. |
Not being alone in your argument is not an argument. It is a logical fallacy called Argumentum ad populum. This fallacy concludes a
proposition to be true because many or most people believe it; which alleges: "If many believe so, it is so." As an example, the argument that there
is a God because so many people believe it is true.
Do you have any empirical evidence to present to support your argument that legalizing drugs will lower crime?
Here are some examples of failures in legalizing drugs:
(1)The Alaska Supreme Court ruled in 1975 that the state could not interfere with an adult’s possession of marijuana for personal consumption in the
home. The court’s ruling became a green light for marijuana use. Although the ruling was limited to persons 19 and over, teens were among those
increasingly using marijuana. According to a 1988 University of Alaska study, the state’s 12 to 17-year-olds used marijuana at more than twice the
national average for their age group. Alaska’s residents voted in 1990 to recriminalize possession of marijuana, demonstrating their belief that
increased use was too high a price to pay.
(2)Modern-day Netherlands is often cited as a country which has successfully legalized drugs. Marijuana is sold over the counter and police seldom
arrest cocaine and heroin users. But official tolerance has led to significant increases in addiction. Amsterdam's officials blame the significant
rise in crime on the liberal drug policy. The city's 7,000 addicts are blamed for 80 percent of all property crime and Amsterdam's rate of burglary is
now twice that of Newark, New Jersey. Drug problems have forced the city to increase the size of the police force and the city fathers are now
rethinking the drug policy.
(3)In April 1994, the mayors of 21 major European cities formed a group called "European Cities Against Drugs," an acknowledgement that legalization
had failed.
(4)Egypt allowed unrestricted trade of cocaine and heroin in the 1920s. An epidemic of addiction resulted.
(5)Great Britain experimented with controlled distribution of heroin between 1959 and 1968. According to the British Medical Journal, the number of
heroin addicts doubled every sixteen months and the increase in addicts was accompanied by an increase in criminal activity as well.
Now, can you produce any evidence where drugs were legalized AND the crime rates dropped and the public cost to treat drug addicts dropped?
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Woooosh
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Interesting to note that the Netherlands has yet again changed it's policy on soft drugs. They now classify the strong "chronic" weed to be a hard
drug, no longer legal. They measure the THC content and have established a cut-off strength.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Ken Bondy
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Mengano those isolated instances of local, limited legalization bear no resemblance to the type of legalization that will eliminate the illegal drug
profits.
carpe diem!
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JoeJustJoe
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Boy listening to Mengano you would think Marijuana is the worse drug in the world.
I can't think of anything more ridiculous than criminalizing marijuana use. What a waste of tax money, police resources, and criminalizing drug use
turns otherwise law abiding citizens to criminals with police records. It's a shame some people can't get a good job because they had a drug bust many
years ago.
C'mon Mengano wouldn't you ever young and smoked a few marijuana joints? It's not a big deal. I would bet my last dollar that your young adult
children at least smoke pot and have no trouble getting it despite any crackdown or major pot bust by the US or Mexican government.
It's good to see many "Nomad" members recognize the "war on drugs" is a total failure and want to try legalizing drugs.
We can also just decriminalize drug use as oppose to full blown legalization and trying to regulate drug use.
We have too many American citizens in prison because of some type of drug regulated offensive, and the minorities and poor people sure seem to get the
short end of the stick when it comes to prison sentencing guidelines.
[Edited on 12-6-2011 by JoeJustJoe]
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