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Santiago
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Posts: 3512
Registered: 8-27-2003
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How not to change one's impeller on a 4-stoke Merc
[img]http://
[img]
Look carefully at the above photos. Every single major Mercury dealer, especially the 'plantinum' dealers who only sell Mercs have either done this
themselves or have repaired these. The 70/90/115 hp 4-strokes that have the Yamaha power head (2010 and earlier) all have this flaw in the design of
the shift shaft linkage. When bolting the lower unit to the midsection, it is very easy to mis-align the shift linkage as one's focus is getting the
drive shaft in without damaging the seals on the oil pump.
If you are mis-aligned on the shift-shaft, the lower end will go to within 1/4" of being completely mated to the mid-section cowling, and then the
bolts will get a little stubborn - if you don't know what this means, then you will simply drive the steel shaft into the bottom of the aluminum
casing. This is what I did, pretty much ruining my day.
The my-folks-grew-up-in-the-depression-and-beat-frugality-into-me fix, which runs about $500-600 total is to either weld or epoxy a plate over this
hole as it is in a place of little stress - basically at the bottom of the sump or 'pan', if you will.
Every shop involved in this repair claims that none of the motors have come back and some are on daily use boats.
Here are the financial considerations:
$600: epoxy the hole (no warranty - you're on your own here)
$5000-7000+: order a new short block, unbolt the head and everything else, transfer it to the new block. 1 year warranty.
$11,000-$14,000: New engine, pick your brand, 5-6 year warranty.
After consulting with the welder (certified aircraft welder with lots of aluminum experience) and the shop foreman, it was agreed that epoxy would be
better because the heat could damage the main seal; they have run into this when welding new skegs to lower ends. We do not want to split the block
to remove the "pan" to get to the inside as this is just more work and money and so far, no other shop has done it. They have simply welded or
epoxied from the outside.
This leaves the issue of 'where is the metal piece'? It has either shattered or is one piece, laying in the oil sump. Shop says it will never come
out in an oil change and if it did get caught up in the crank would be pulverized by the steel. At any consideration, it has never been an issue with
the previous motors.
I am going to try this repair with the following understanding with the shop:
1. Over the next few weeks I will put over 100 hours on my local lake; changing the oil after every run.
2. If the engine fails during these two weeks, then they have a short block on order from Mercury that they will install in just a few days or I may
decide to re-power completely.
3. October 7th I'm back at BOLA piscatorial, one way or another.
You are free to fire away.......
Please do not go all goofy, here; I'm not as stoopid as I look. Unbelievably, the same shop is the preferred shop for my insurance company and THIS
IS COVERED!! I have received and deposited a check for $7254.99 so I'm good to go if this does not work.
As for safety, I have a kicker that will get me home and has once or twice before.
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1496
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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Jim
Sorry for your problem. As for the repair, why not make the cover for the hole and drill and tap the block so that 2 screws and the epoxy will hold
the cover in place? Just a thought.
Larry
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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"OHH MYYY" OUCH !!!
WOW !! I DO A COUPLE INSHURE JOBS A YEAR AND I WOULD NOT THINK THAT WOULD BE COVERD...BUT THAT GOES TO SHOW I DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT IN.
COMPANYS...WHEN WORKING WITH THESE MOTORS (SS&ALUM.) IF THEY DONT SLIDE TOGETHER WITH A LIGHT TAP.. STOP AND RECHECK!!! I HAVE HEARD OF THE
SITUATION BUT HAVE NOT SEEN IT MYSELF..THATS UGLY !!! K&T this is posted
much later;;; Psst ,I'LL TELL YOU A SECRET..RUN A 2 STROKE !!! 4 STROKE ARE CR__!! and heavy,costly,and are not "muy duro" go ahead and try and tell
me how good 4/strokes are..sorry you got talked into them as they have been shoved down the throats of cali anglers !! a dealer in ca. cannot sell
you a real motor anymore (2str) Ive had to run out of state to buy motors for my boats..Tight lines..OUT
[Edited on 9-4-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 9-4-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 9-4-2012 by captkw]
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vandy
Senior Nomad
Posts: 538
Registered: 10-10-2003
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I hate it when that happens!
Whenever I have a car/boat/washing-machine/computer/etc problem, I do a quick search on youtube.
People put EVERYTHING on there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiQNhFYFvdQ
Santiago, your prob is mentioned from 8:40 to 9:40
I know, too little, too late
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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i think the epoxy might work...i also like the idea of a bolt AND epoxy...that will work
NEVER get a 2 stroke...old school
they are loud and stink AND are banned in many locations
plus they suck gas
later the parts will be impossible to get...
thats how "they'll" eliminate them totally
4 strokes do break and "old mechanics" hate to learn the new technolgy but the 4 stroke is a better machine
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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bob and susan
HOLA, first off 4 strokes are not new tech.... and dirty 2 stokes are not banned any where in cali except lake tahoe and a few muni ponds..the new 2
strokes are very quiet and not smokey..and fuel efficent...being that I repair all of these motors and stay WAY ahead of the curve in training and
tech, I can say without a ? the 4 strokes are not that great NEW answer..they breakdown so easy and need so much care and pampering!!! yes over all
they used to get a better range. but that gap is getting very small..so instead guessing that you know something about my job and life... you might
try to learn or ask...guessing that you know motors like most guys assume .. one of my favs..."we all love boats !!! but like a women..they are so
misunderstood" have a great day...K&T
[Edited on 9-5-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 9-7-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 9-7-2012 by captkw]
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55steve
Senior Nomad
Posts: 857
Registered: 4-24-2006
Location: Warner Springs, CA
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You obviously don't know squat about the new generation 2 strokes...I have a 90 HP Etec and it is quiet, doesn't smoke, weighs 100 lbs less than a
comparable 4 stroke and actually has cleaner emissions than a 4 stroke. It is also legal to run on ANY waters on this planet. The fuel economy is
the same as a 4 stroke - I'm getting a bit better than 5 NMPG with mine.
The most stringent rules in the U.S. are at Lake Tahoe and the environmental police use 2 stroke Etecs to patrol this lake.
Back on topic: Sorry about the mishap Jim - the epoxy/drill & tap method would be my choice.
See you in BoLA in Oct.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
i think the epoxy might work...i also like the idea of a bolt AND epoxy...that will work
NEVER get a 2 stroke...old school
they are loud and stink AND are banned in many locations
plus they suck gas
later the parts will be impossible to get...
thats how "they'll" eliminate them totally
4 strokes do break and "old mechanics" hate to learn the new technolgy but the 4 stroke is a better machine |
[Edited on 9-4-2012 by 55steve]
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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thank you steve!!
HOLA, alot of the"boys" just dont get it !!! BTW I repair all outboards 7 days a week this time of year and the 4 stroke are crap !! the new mercury
VERADO is showing some promises..that said..understand that dealers in calif. cannot sell a dirty 2 stroke motor..thats the law (carb)calif air
resource board... and have made the blight of 2 stokes look bleak!! that is not the case at all...MERCURY, the big badboy of marine motors did not,has
not, will not stop making a awsome 2 stroke motor..and if you think about the fact that on a 2 str you get a pwr str once on spin vs one every 2
spins..its rather simple !! also when a guy forks over 10k and up he does not want to hear that he bought a peice of crap..fact is 4 strokes are
pricey,heavy,have a whole bunch more moving parts,,need much more care,service and in the salt get eat up much more readily...so unless you
breath,sleep,repair,and service these motors like I do for a living..you might be advised to listen to the guy that knows what the hell he is talking
about...and please ck out the new 2 strokes for yourself..they ARE NOT GOING AWAY !!!! ps and thank you bombadier for the E-TECS
[Edited on 9-4-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 9-4-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 9-5-2012 by captkw]
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55steve
Senior Nomad
Posts: 857
Registered: 4-24-2006
Location: Warner Springs, CA
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Evinrude sells a lot of 2 strokes in Calif - their engines are CARB certified and have the 3 star certification and EU (European Union) certification.
| Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
HOLA, alot of the"boys" just dont get it !!! BTW I repair all outboards 7 days a week this time of year and the 4 stroke are crap !! the new mercury
VERADO is showing some promises..that said..understand that dealers in calif. cannot sell a 2 stroke motor..thats the law (carb)calif air resource
board... and have made the blight of 2 stokes look bleak!! that is not the case at all...MERCURY, the big badboy of marine motors did not,has not,
will not stop making a awsome 2 stroke motor..and if you think about the fact that on a 2 str you get a pwr str once on two spins vs one every 4
spins..its rather simple !! also when a guy forks over 10k and up he does not want to hear that he bought a peice of crap..fact is 4 strokes are
pricey,heavy,have a whole bunch more moving parts,,need much more care,service and in the salt get eat up much more readily...so unless you
breath,sleep,repair,and service these motors like I do for a living..you might be advised to listen to the guy that knows what the hell he is talking
about...and please ck out the new 2 strokes for yourself..they ARE NOT GOING AWAY !!!! |
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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oops, I messed up !!
they do sell 2 strokes now that carb set up the star compliant system after the big guys showed them that 2 strokes are good and are not going away
!!! thank you MERCUY MARINE and BOMBARDIER !!! LOL had to grab a water pump kit for a FICHT motor to spell BOMBARDIER I AM A FUEL INJECTION AND ELECTRICAL SPECIALIST and getting tried of this 4 stroke
Bs and thank you STEVE for pointing out the (carb) star system>>> and myself dont like to see stars on a great motor,,,reminds me of 2nd
grade !!
[Edited on 9-4-2012 by captkw]
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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two strokes ARE on their way out...you'll see
the future is the emissions and a two stroke cant comply to the future regs...
and motors last what they last...they all wear out...then..we NEED to buy a new one not fix an endless money pit
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55steve
Senior Nomad
Posts: 857
Registered: 4-24-2006
Location: Warner Springs, CA
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We will have to agree to disagree...you are definately misinformed. Do a quick internet search - maybe try HPDI 2 stroke...just a suggestion.
If that's too much work, click on the link below....HPDI 2 stroke technology is the future.
http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/
A report comparing the technologies.
http://www.marineenginedigest.com/specialreports/2versus4str...
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
two strokes ARE on their way out...you'll see
the future is the emissions and a two stroke cant comply to the future regs...
and motors last what they last...they all wear out...then..we NEED to buy a new one not fix an endless money pit |
[Edited on 9-4-2012 by 55steve]
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RnR
Senior Nomad
Posts: 837
Registered: 5-1-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
HOLA, alot of the"boys" just dont get it !!! BTW I repair all outboards 7 days a week this time of year and the 4 stroke are crap !! the new mercury
VERADO is showing some promises..that said..understand that dealers in calif. cannot sell a 2 stroke motor..thats the law (carb)calif air resource
board... and have made the blight of 2 stokes look bleak!! that is not the case at all...MERCURY, the big badboy of marine motors did not,has not,
will not stop making a awsome 2 stroke motor..and if you think about the fact that on a 2 str you get a pwr str once on two spins vs one every 4
spins..its rather simple !! also when a guy forks over 10k and up he does not want to hear that he bought a peice of crap..fact is 4 strokes are
pricey,heavy,have a whole bunch more moving parts,,need much more care,service and in the salt get eat up much more readily...so unless you
breath,sleep,repair,and service these motors like I do for a living..you might be advised to listen to the guy that knows what the hell he is talking
about...and please ck out the new 2 strokes for yourself..they ARE NOT GOING AWAY !!!! ps and thank you bombadier for the E-TECS
[Edited on 9-4-2012 by captkw] |
Tend to agree with everything you have posted/discussed except:
2 stroke cylinders get a power stroke on EVERY complete revolution and 4 stroke cylinders get a power stroke on every other revolution. One
revolution = two strokes, up, and down.
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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RnR uh........ok
a four stroke has on pwr stroke for every 2 revs of the crank and I also LOVE wankels. a 1/3 stroke motor..one of these days I will make a wankel
outboard..K&T
[Edited on 9-4-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 9-5-2012 by captkw]
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
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Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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how many 2 stroke motorcycles are there licensed on the road today...
...again old tecnology...
2 strokes will be around for awhile but they ARE on their way out
dont fight the wave
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3512
Registered: 8-27-2003
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I have been looking at the E-techs; my understanding is that they are the highest selling engine in Florida. They are cleaner than the 4 strokes and
don't even require 2 stroke oil - or so I've been told. The only power head maintenance is to change the spark plugs every 3 years.
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bigmike58
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Location: Homeland CA/Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
I have been looking at the E-techs; my understanding is that they are the highest selling engine in Florida. They are cleaner than the 4 strokes and
don't even require 2 stroke oil - or so I've been told. The only power head maintenance is to change the spark plugs every 3 years.
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They still inject oil. xd100 full synthetic. They don't smoke and get excellent fuel mileage and are quiet like the 4 strokes. You can't go wrong with
the ETEC's. I have the first gen 150hp "ficht" , it uses xd-50 doesnt smoke and trolls at 2k rpms using 1.7 gph on a 23' boat.
[Edited on 9-4-2012 by bigmike58]
Shouldn\'t one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check or Sec.8 housing?
........... I had to pass one to earn it for them!
\"I\'ve now been in 57 states? I think one left to go?\"
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55steve
Senior Nomad
Posts: 857
Registered: 4-24-2006
Location: Warner Springs, CA
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Hi Jim,
They are pretty much in a dead heat as far as emissions vs a 4 stroke - the 2 stroke beats the 4 stroke at idle & lower end and the 4 stroke is
slightly better at WOT.
The Etec certainly does use oil...very expensive oil at that! I pay $35/Gal for oil - the good news is that it uses very little of it.
Yep, the 1st scheduled maintenance is 3 years down the road and it consists of changing the spark plugs, new fuel filter and changing out the lower
unit lube. A Yamaha 4 stroke would need to go to the dealer at least 6 times during this time to maintain their warranty.
I am not anti 4 stroke by any means but it's hard to argue that the 2 strokes are going away.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
I have been looking at the E-techs; my understanding is that they are the highest selling engine in Florida. They are cleaner than the 4 strokes and
don't even require 2 stroke oil - or so I've been told. The only power head maintenance is to change the spark plugs every 3 years.
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55steve
Senior Nomad
Posts: 857
Registered: 4-24-2006
Location: Warner Springs, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bigmike58
| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
I have been looking at the E-techs; my understanding is that they are the highest selling engine in Florida. They are cleaner than the 4 strokes and
don't even require 2 stroke oil - or so I've been told. The only power head maintenance is to change the spark plugs every 3 years.
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They still inject oil. xd100 full synthetic. They don't smoke and get excellent fuel mileage and are quiet like the 4 strokes. You can't go wrong with
the ETEC's. I have the first gen 150hp "ficht" , it uses xd-50 doesnt smoke and trolls at 2k rpms using 1.7 gph on a 23' boat.
[Edited on 9-4-2012 by bigmike58] |
Hi Mike,
I had the option of setting my 90 Etec for XD-100 but opted for the XD-50 setting.
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55steve
Senior Nomad
Posts: 857
Registered: 4-24-2006
Location: Warner Springs, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
how many 2 stroke motorcycles are there licensed on the road today...
...again old tecnology...
2 strokes will be around for awhile but they ARE on their way out
dont fight the wave |
Yamaha is currently testing a 2 stroke direct injected 250 - Looks like the YZ 250 is going to come back!
BRP (Bombardier Racing Products) is using direct injected 2 strokes in virtually all its snowmobiles and PWC's.
The 2 stroke technology has come of age and you will be seeing more of them now that the emissions are no longer an issue.
Here's a link to BRP website...
http://www.brp.com/en-us/engines/evinrude-outboard-engines
[Edited on 9-4-2012 by 55steve]
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