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tehag
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GOLD!! or life?
http://localsguidetoloreto.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=303&...
Certainty is the child of ignorance, knowledge is the mother of doubt. Question everything!
http://bcsbirds.com |
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tiotomasbcs
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Good article. Agua Vale mas que Oro is a large, vocal group working against these projects! Check em out. Baja Sur has a very strong, organized
opposition fighting these attempts to pollute our watersheds. At first, I thot this was mostly a Gringo thing but actually the Mexicanos picked up
the fight from the beginning! Lots of bumper stickers, meetings, and rallys goin on. Agriculture is huge especially with demand for Organics.
Thanks. Tio
[Edited on 7-14-2013 by tiotomasbcs]
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MMc
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I read this and think of the Berkeley Pit, Although it is nothing like a mine in Baja. The pit and talus field would be a eyesore. It's not my
country, so let the locals decide.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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BajaBlanca
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Why is there arsenic in the water already? There are not and have not been any mines yet, right?
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baja Steve
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from mining in the past
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BajaNews
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http://www.earthisland.org/journal/index.php/elist/eListRead...
http://www.salon.com/2013/07/11/in_mexico_2_billion_gold_min...
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBlanca
Why is there arsenic in the water already? There are not and have not been any mines yet, right? |
I believe the article said that arsenic naturally occurs in areas with gold and is often bound with it. Some leaching occurs naturally but would
increase as the gold is unearthed and extracted. That's how I read it.
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BajaBlanca
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I didn't realize arsenic was naturally occurring near gold. And I didn't realize mining had been done in that area already. This is not going to be
pretty.
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBlanca
I didn't realize arsenic was naturally occurring near gold. And I didn't realize mining had been done in that area already. This is not going to be
pretty. |
In the second paragraph from the web link: The mine is great news for the 900 residents of the nearby mining villages of San Antonio
and El Triunfo.
They were mining villages dating back 150-250 years... but for silver then. Jack Swords was one of the first Nomads to give us photos of the area
mines: http://www.vivabaja.com/swords/
http://www.vivabaja.com/swords/page11.html
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBlanca
I didn't realize arsenic was naturally occurring near gold. And I didn't realize mining had been done in that area already. This is not going to be
pretty. |
In the second paragraph from the web link: The mine is great news for the 900 residents of the nearby mining villages of San Antonio
and El Triunfo.
They were mining villages dating back 150-250 years... but for silver then. Jack Swords was one of the first Nomads to give us photos of the area
mines: http://www.vivabaja.com/swords/
http://www.vivabaja.com/swords/page11.html |
Great news for SOME of the 900 residents of El Triunfo and
San Antonio but terrible news for the other 300,000 or so residents of the region. The area of the proposed mine has the most surface water and the
most rainfall of any place in BCS. Risking an aquifer so important to agriculture and domestic use for so many for the short term gain of so few is
grossly irresponsible.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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David K
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Yet, the very toxic mining methods of 150-250 years ago have allowed life to exist to the high degree we see today. Yet you fear modern,
environmentally sensitive mining will somehow destroy?
I think the eco-watchdogs and lawyers from both sides will make sure if the gold is mined, the damages will be not nearly what they otherwise could
be.
I sure wouldn't want to be the owner of the mining company with all the hoops needed to jump through today! The facts are that gold is needed, and it
doesn't grow on trees... If not mined in Baja (as it has been for hundreds of years), then the wealth will not be shared in Baja.
Maybe it will wait for another time, but someday the need for that gold will find a way to get to it, and the Mexican people will decide when that is,
not a bunch foreigners, I hope!
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Yet, the very toxic mining methods of 150-250 years ago have allowed life to exist to the high degree we see today. Yet you fear modern,
environmentally sensitive mining will somehow destroy?
I think the eco-watchdogs and lawyers from both sides will make sure if the gold is mined, the damages will be not nearly what they otherwise could
be.
I sure wouldn't want to be the owner of the mining company with all the hoops needed to jump through today! The facts are that gold is needed, and it
doesn't grow on trees... If not mined in Baja (as it has been for hundreds of years), then the wealth will not be shared in Baja.
Maybe it will wait for another time, but someday the need for that gold will find a way to get to it, and the Mexican people will decide when that is,
not a bunch foreigners, I hope! |
The majority of the Mexican people in this region seem to be very much
against the idea of allowing a foreign mining company to come in and exploit their land and water, judging by the number and size of the protests they
have organized against it. "The state of Baja California Sur, like much of Mexico, has a long history of mining. The first gold mines in the region
were dug 200 years ago. Today, the legacy of those mines is still obvious — about 800,000 tons of mining waste piled up as artificial hills throughout
the peninsula. By comparison, the new open pit mine would produce an equal amount of waste every 20 days — for the next 10 years. In other words, the
area landscape will be completely transformed."
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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MMc
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I am not a eco-watchdog in anyway, shape or form. Some have called me a Luddite however. The locals will decide this for themselves, what I believe
has no bearing on what will happen there.
What will happen to the roads in the area? That aquifer is far more valuable then gold will ever be. What will that area look like after they are done
in 10 years? 200 years from now we will have a filled in (kinda) hole, water that my be potable and some huge piles of stone?
Just because we did something for 200 years doesn't make it right. The mining that was done up in till now has been hard-rock and dry sluicing
mining.Pit mining is nothing like what has been done before.
Here are images of open pit mines;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-pit_mining
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/10/gallery_mines/7/
Rehabilitation is only as good as the mining company and how long they are operating.
Open pit mines are fascinating places, I wouldn't vacation at one or anywhere near it. I am for thoughtful progress. let's hope that the LOCALS decide
what is the best way foreword.
Glade I saw it when I did.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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rts551
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In 2010, the Mexican Geological Service analyzed water samples collected from 80 wells around San Antonio and the adjacent agricultural region of Los
Planes. The tests showed that almost half of the wells have arsenic contamination level above the permissible limit for potable water in Mexico, which
is 25 parts per billion (ppb). By comparison, the World Health Organization and the US national drinking water standards are 10 ppb. Murillo explains
that the major source of these high levels of arsenic is the arsenolite — a highly soluble mineral within the old mining waste that drains along the
San Antonio stream and spreads into the Los Planes valley sediments and ground water.
I wonder if David would like to live at this site? or better yet, maybe he could find a job there. Open pit mining areas are not very pretty, but
worse, they can be very toxic. Hope you are not down wind from the tailings
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ncampion
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This arguement seems a lot like a hamburger. We all like to eat one (well most of us), but nobody wants to see how the meat is obtained at a
slaughterhouse. These minerals have to come from somewhere if our modern life is to continue but nobody wants to acknowledge that somewhere there has
to be a mine to produce them.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
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Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ncampion
This arguement seems a lot like a hamburger. We all like to eat one (well most of us), but nobody wants to see how the meat is obtained at a
slaughterhouse. These minerals have to come from somewhere if our modern life is to continue but nobody wants to acknowledge that somewhere there has
to be a mine to produce them. |
Some areas are more suitable for these activities than others. Most of the
locals in BCS seem to feel that it's a bad idea to have an open pit mine and cyanide leaching operation in the watershed for a large portion of the
cape region. Water is a precious commodity in this region and in short supply, the protection of it should be the priority.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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grizzlyfsh95
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You guys are just silly. Of course we know that beef comes from Safeway in little plastic packages. Same with chicken. And gold? I comes from a
jewelry store. I certainly don't want someone digging a hole IN MY BACKYARD! But then everybody has a backyard, don't they?
So many mining engineers here on this board, and so much knowledge of modern mining practices. Makes your head explode.
We want economic development for the Mexicans, we want fuel and lubricants in the states, but we certainly don't want to do what must be done to
obtain either.
What a joke.
The harder I work, the luckier I get
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MMc
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Please, can tell me where a open pit mine has improved the area? Yes, not in my back yard is here. This is about a place that I love and believe in
protecting. I do have a say in what is going to happen? Not at all. The first salvo is always environmental, real or not, the next is lawyers and
paperwork, third is public outcry. I hope the locals play the long game.
So grizzlyfsh95 how do feel about long-lines and 4" gill nets in the East Cape, are they a joke?
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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grizzlyfsh95
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Well, let's see. Most of the fish sold in the States is caught by long line. There are limits and areas for fishing, along with licenses and seasons.
Most gill netting in the lower 48 (other than on the reservations) is illegal. I believe that gill netting in the SOC is also illegal, except for some
ijido families who have been grandfathered in with permits. I'm not crazy about that, but it is the law, and they do it right in front of my home.
(And I am a law-abiding Mexican citizen)
Would you prefer that mining be done traditionally in underground mines? It is inefficient and dangerous. If you do not like the look of an open pit
mine...uh...don't look at it.
The harder I work, the luckier I get
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ligui
Senior Nomad
Posts: 837
Registered: 2-9-2008
Location: Fraser co.
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Mood: love Baja !
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The land looks just great the way it is ....
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