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Tommy A
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A line in the sand over opening Mexico's beaches to foreign ownership
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-mexico-real-estate-201310...
Need to copy and paste
[Edited on 10-7-2013 by Tommy A]
[Edited on 10-8-2013 by BajaNomad]
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Ateo
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Well, it seems a no brainer from an economic standpoint.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
Well, it seems a no brainer from an economic standpoint. |
To the majority of Mexicans, there is no economic standpoint. To them, it would be like the US selling the Liberty Bell.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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DianaT
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Thanks, it is another very interesting article and it will be interesting to soon see what happens. We have thought about purchasing a different
place in Mexico, but we will not make that decision until AFTER this all shakes out. If it passes, it will save thousands of dollars.
And Dennis, what you say is pretty much what a number of our friends in Baja have been saying ---- no way! The beaches belong to them and they see it
as a source of national pride.
But who knows, money and the expectation of making money might push the change. We should know soon, I think.
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rts551
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What percentage of Mexican citizens are going to make money off of foreign ownership?
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
What percentage of Mexican citizens are going to make money off of foreign ownership? |
A very low percentage, very low. The money to which I referred would be the money that influences the power elite. The guys at the top.
One huge negative for the local populations is often inflation of prices that they cannot afford. A prime example is a place like San Miquel de
Allende. The price of real estate is unbelievable. And to a smaller degree, the same has happened in several places in Baja which causes the locals
concern that their children will never be able to purchase land.
I well imagine that if the law passes, a place like Arroyo Grande will grow and be attractive to foreigners, and will only financially benefit a few.
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msteve1014
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There is more money to be had than just from the sale of the land. Who makes money if more people like you and me buy land, buy local materials, and
pay local people to build a house? Then I spend money in town where I can. Even go out to eat, if I can find a restaurant.
You do not have to own the land to make money, and the land we are talking about runs a long ways from the ocean.
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bajabuddha
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
What percentage of Mexican citizens are going to make money off of foreign ownership? |
A very low percentage, very low. The money to which I referred would be the money that influences the power elite. The guys at the top.
One huge negative for the local populations is often inflation of prices that they cannot afford. A prime example is a place like San Miquel de
Allende. The price of real estate is unbelievable. And to a smaller degree, the same has happened in several places in Baja which causes the locals
concern that their children will never be able to purchase land.
I well imagine that if the law passes, a place like Arroyo Grande will grow and be attractive to foreigners, and will only financially benefit a few.
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I totally concur. The guy in the article will make money, he's a realtor using others as examples to blur his own greed. ''Much needed jobs...
housecleaning and gardening....'' that's about it. Beach real estate will be 10x (or more) higher than slightly inland with a view, and only wealthy
will buy and build, not full-timers who contribute to the economy by co-reliance. I found his arguments as full of stuffing as a christmas turkey.
The beaches are a Mexican treasure, too bad they don't ever get as much time to enjoy them as we do. To take any of them away would be a travesty,
and an invitation to wider disparity.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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DENNIS
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How many of Mexico's 115,000,000 citizens will benefit directly from giving up what their revolutions have fought for?
How many could properly celebrate "Expropriation Day"....a national holiday, if the government is selling out their icons and trophies earned through
loss of life?
The Oil Industry is perhaps at the top of this list and it won't be surrendered quietly.
Mexicans aren't driven by financial gain as those of us are. Pride has a higher value to them.
If the decision is ever made to relinquish control over the protected areas of the country, those who feel the benefit of this very unpopular sellout
should keep looking over their shoulder in the future for the tide to turn and have their new property privileges rescinded.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by msteve1014
There is more money to be had than just from the sale of the land. Who makes money if more people like you and me buy land, buy local materials, and
pay local people to build a house? Then I spend money in town where I can. Even go out to eat, if I can find a restaurant.
You do not have to own the land to make money, and the land we are talking about runs a long ways from the ocean. |
Yes, but that is in the short run, except for the stores and restaurants, if there is one open all the time in La Bocana. 
But are the majority of people benefiting?
Just a small example. A good friend was in Scorpion Bay talking with some locals who were not very pleased with the gringo settlement. As they said,
after the big houses were built, the jobs stopped and prices of everything went up. Now, that of course, is obviously not the opinion of everyone
there, but it is one side of the story.
Certainly not all the people in these small towns are happy over the influx of gringos. And many have a lot to say about it! It is a mixed bag.
BTW--- didn't I hear that a new restaurant that is open all the time opened in La Bocana?
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msteve1014
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Why would the price of anything go up because a gringo moved in? Who raised that price ?, a Mexican?
Yes, you can get food in La Bocana, but you have to know someone, or the secret hand shake.
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redmesa
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I know that tourism and new comers here in my town have made the place boom. Good for some but for all us ole timers we liked the small know you
community way of living. I think it will be the same in Baja. I could not get the article. Was it just about beach front or about clear title to
property? There is very little ownership to foreshore left anywhere.
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durrelllrobert
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Mexican nationals land ownership
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Revolution
Before the Mexican revolution in 1911 more than 95% of Mexico's land was owned by less than 5% of the population. This vastly unequal distribution of
land—and, therefore, wealth—had plagued Mexico for many years, to the anger and dismay of the working classes. Workers on the vast "haciendas" were
often treated like slaves, being beaten for the slightest infraction—real or imagined—and murders of workers by their "masters" were common. Another
way to ensure that farmers and workers were kept under the thumb of the wealthy classes was to make sure that any debt incurred was passed down from
generation to generation, thereby ensuring that it would never be paid off and the farmers would be kept in perpetual debt bondage.
During the Álvaro Obregón presidency, Mexico began to concentrate on land reform. Agrarian reform was a revolutionary goal for land redistribution as
part of a process of nationalization and "Mexicanization". Land distribution began almost immediately, and affected both foreign and large domestic
land owners (Hacendados) however, this process was very slow. In 1914 Obregón and Pancho Villa called upon Venustiano Carranza to form a policy of
land distribution.[6] This resulted in the Agrarian Decree of January 1, 1915, which promised to provide land for those in need of it.[6] Between the
years of 1915-1928, 53,000 square kilometres was distributed to over 500,000 recipients in some 1500 communities. By 1930, though,
ejidal (communal land holdings) constituted only 6.3% of national agricultural property (by area) or 9.4% by value.
President Lázaro Cárdenas passed the 1934 Agrarian Code and accelerated the pace of land reform. He helped redistribute 45,000,000 acres (180,000 km2)
of land, 4,000,000 acres (President Lázaro Cárdenas passed the 1934 Agrarian Code and accelerated the pace of land reform. He helped
redistribute 45,000,000 acres (180,000 km2) of land, 4,000,000 acres (16,000 km2) of which were expropriated from American owned agricultural
property
Starting with the government of Miguel Alemán (1946–52), land reform steps made in previous governments were rolled back. Alemán's government allowed
capitalist entrepreneurs to rent peasant land. This created phenomenon known as neolatifundismo, where land owners build up large-scale private farms
on the basis of controlling land which remains ejidal but is not sown by the peasants to whom it is assigned.
In 1970, President Luis Echeverría began his term by declaring land reform dead. In the face of peasant revolt, he was forced to backtrack, and
embarked on the biggest land reform program since Cárdenas. Echeverría legalized take-overs of huge foreign-owned private farms, which were turned
into new collective ejidos
In 1988, President Carlos Salinas de Gortari was elected. In December 1991, he amended Article 27 of the Constitution, making it legal to sell ejido
land and allow peasants to put up their land as collateral for a loan.
Today, most Mexican peasants are landowners. However, their holdings are usually too small, and farmers must supplement their incomes by working for
the remaining landlords, and/or traveling to the United States.
Bob Durrell
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DENNIS
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Another point to keep in mind.....If a Constitutional Amendment is required to make a change in property ownership laws..... Mexico amends their
Constitution about as often as the change their pants.
An amendment that favors you today may wipe you out in the future.
.
[Edited on 10-7-2013 by DENNIS]
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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msteve1014
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So if they manage to pass this law, and then someday a second one, I may be wiped out? Crap, can I get this round on credit?
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bajacalifornian
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I don't know the quote thing . . . but to Dennis the sage who said . . .
"To the majority of Mexicans, there is no economic standpoint. To them, it would be like the US selling the Liberty Bell".
Exactly. From the grass roots.
American by birth, Mexican by choice.
Signature addendum: Danish physicist — Niels Bohr — who said, “The opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth.
Jeff Petersen
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treuboff
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More Gringos, Just who I wanted to visit. Can't wait for them to put out their flags and build their fences on the beaches install more gates to
protect them from the Mexicans they don't want in their neighborhoods back home. I have seen them do it just leasing.
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redmesa
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The federal zone would still be protected I hope!
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cessna821
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Do gringos living in Mexico contribute to the actual welfare of the community they live in?
Would fish camps grow into villages? Would there still be hospitals, doctors, fire services, stores and restaurants in small towns if there were no
gringo residents or snowbirds around? Or would towns prefer to become sleepy villages and villages become fish camps again?
Do Mexicans prefer to live in isolation from the rest of the world or do they prefer the services that are provided when the population can support
them? Money spent by gringos on home maintenance and cleaning, in restaurants, stores, workshops and gas stations circulates ..... surely?
Shari? Bianca? Osprey? What do you think? Do your locals enjoy the benefits or disdain them?
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bajacalifornication
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Muy Buenas tardes amigos. My Mexicano point of view is as follow.
Most of Us (Mexicanos) learn in primaria schools that the United States robbed
all the states north of the border from Mexico. So this problem goes back to the Mexican American war. To make matters worse according to history Los
Niños Heroes were kill by American troops at the Castillo de Chapultepec in
Mexico City. It was a Military Academy and most of the members were under age at the time. My point is. Most Mexicanos think if you let any foreigners
buy
land in Mexico. History will repeat itself.
Todo por servir se acaba. Y acaba por no servir.
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