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BigOly
Senior Nomad
Posts: 524
Registered: 10-1-2010
Location: Los Barriles, Bandon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Easy Birder
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Hired help question? No photos.
We have a general maintenance guy that has worked for us for 9 years. He takes care of the pool, some landscaping, etc. We have a contract that
states wages and terms on a year to year basis. Somebody, (my bookkeeper) says this contract may not be enough to protect us from a claim by our
"friend" the gardener. She says if we have to let him go we may be liable for a years wages and maybe more. We don't pay his social security or
anything like that and the contract states he is responsible for his taxes, etc. What do you think?
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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Sounds like you should consult with an attorney.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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As far as gobernacion is concerned contracts are useful to start fires and wipe noses.
Full time employees are entitled to vacation with pay, holidays, aqualinaldos (Christmas Bonuses) healthcare are virtually endless unemployment
insurance payments should he sever employment. There are also heavy fines.
You need a Good attorney. An attorney with the least amount of lechery in his heart and a specialist in this field.
Good luck
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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I would recommend these folks, I've known Alba almost 20 years and she is professional, reasonable, and a pleasure to work with.
http://www.thepaperchase.com.mx
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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BAJA.DESERT.RAT
Senior Nomad
Posts: 980
Registered: 11-5-2009
Location: BAJA SUR
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Hola BigOly,
a friend of mine hired a guy to look after his palapa and grounds while he was away for about six months or so. when he came back, the worker didn't
do anything in his absence so he just fired him.
his worker went to the authorities and my friend was ordered to pay the worker $ 400.00 U.S.
GO FIGURE !
my accountant told me there is a way around getting stuck in the future was to use a service called " outsourcing ". basically, it's an employment
agency and they pay all the fees required by the gov't. and are the employer.
mexico is not employer friendly.
BIEN SALUD,
DA RAT
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BAJA.DESERT.RAT
my accountant told me there is a way around getting stuck in the future was to use a service called " outsourcing ". basically, it's an employment
agency and they pay all the fees required by the gov't. and are the employer.
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It doesn't matter. The actual employer is the responible party. Arbitration boards and courts have consistently ruled against using subcontractors to
sidestep the employer/employee relationship.
Additionally and regardless of contract stipulation, In Mexico, the employer is ultimately responsible as the guarantor for an employee's IMSS, taxes
and other benefits.
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Brinloor
Junior Nomad
Posts: 79
Registered: 8-16-2010
Location: Mulegé
Member Is Offline
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A less expensive option might be to hire a professional accountant. They work daily hands on with the ins and outs of employment law and might be
able to wiggle you into the system legitimately, without the excessive cost of a lawyer. There is a difference, even in Mexico, between a bookkeeper
and a professional accountant, even though I don't believe the Spanish language differentiates. U2U me if you would like a name in La Paz.
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Gypsy Jan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4275
Registered: 1-27-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: Depends on which way the wind is blowing
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Well It Just Depends
We were sued by a casual labor worker for IMSS reimbursement recently.
He lost.
Also, we are going after him for stealing tools and equipment including car batteries and many much other other stuff in our house including my
jewelery that we are still trying to make a list from our insurance register.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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bledito
Nomad
Posts: 420
Registered: 7-6-2013
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why not just pay the tax. Does anyone have input on how to pay, where to go, and the rate,or amount required per dollar in wages to be paid as taxes ?
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akshadow
Nomad
Posts: 287
Registered: 2-1-2007
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good questions
| Quote: | Originally posted by bledito
why not just pay the tax. Does anyone have input on how to pay, where to go, and the rate,or amount required per dollar in wages to be paid as taxes ?
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Ron San Felipe Oct, Nov. Feb. Mar. April. remainder in Juneau Ak
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RnR
Senior Nomad
Posts: 839
Registered: 5-1-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bledito
why not just pay the tax. Does anyone have input on how to pay, where to go, and the rate,or amount required per dollar in wages to be paid as taxes ?
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This is my experience with hiring workers directly:
The overall tax rate is about 30% of the workers' wages.
There are three taxes: IMSS paid monthly, RCV and Infonavit paid bi-monthly. All due by the 17th of the following month.
In La Paz, you have to initially sign up in the three individual offices. You can pay at any bank.
I hired an accountant to set up the accounts, shepherd me thru the initial sign-ups, set up the workers' employment/termination contracts and final
release of claims, print payrolls, calculate the required taxes, and make the monthly payments. (Well worth the $50 fee/month.!!!)
PS. - You really do not want to be an employer in Mexico!
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Brinloor
Junior Nomad
Posts: 79
Registered: 8-16-2010
Location: Mulegé
Member Is Offline
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PS. - You really do not want to be an employer in Mexico!
I second that 100%
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19321
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Brinloor
PS. - You really do not want to be an employer in Mexico!
I second that 100% |
So nomad advice is to avoid being an employer. Well, somebody has to be an employer. Everyone can't be retired, worker bee, or on the dole; or can
they?
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bajario
Nomad
Posts: 260
Registered: 1-7-2008
Location: Cardiff
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If they are a contractor (is there such a thing in Baja?) wouldn't they be responsible for there own SS and such? Similar to the US of A?
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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everyone should read this...
http://rollybrook.com/employee-pay.htm
not only do you pay social security and medical
i also pay a fee to the governor each month for having an employee
then there's holidays and vacation and xmas bonus
there's a lot to consider when hiring an employee
[Edited on 1-15-2014 by Bob and Susan]
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RnR
Senior Nomad
Posts: 839
Registered: 5-1-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajario
If they are a contractor (is there such a thing in Baja?) wouldn't they be responsible for there own SS and such? Similar to the US of A?
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Depends.
If they are truly an independent contractor, and without employees, they should be responsible for paying their taxes. (yeah, right)
But, they have to be a true independent contractor.
That typically means that there is a pre-defined scope of work, they complete the work without guidance from the homeowner, and they are paid the full
contract price at the completion of the work. (Think - a painter)
A gardener/maintenance worker does not usually work this way. They show up, ask the homeowner "what do you want me to do today?", follow the
homeowners guidance and supervision, and receive their pay.
The law usually defines this as an "employer/employee relationship", not as an "owner/contractor relationship".
If you truly want to know the law, get a copy of the book "La Ley de Trabajo". It is a small paperback with a green cover published by, I believe,
the Mexican Labor Ministry. It is very clearly written and makes for some very interesting reading. I paid about 80 pesos for the copy I have.
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pacsur
Nomad
Posts: 194
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: San Jose del Cabo,BCS
Member Is Offline
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Workers
I have had over 500 workers the last 20 years and I have always asked my attorneys and accountants to let me know what I can do legally concerning
employees.
I have had probably 5 ex employees file something with the labor board against me, they all wanted around $10,000 usd, I think I paid out to only one
person about $100 usd to settle a case that my accountant said I would win if we actually went to court, you must pay all the benefits to keep from
having a problem, and keep signed receipts.
I was taken to the labor board last year by my gardener of 3 years after he walked off the job and said he did not want to work anymore. One week
later I was served papers, he was suing me for holidays and year end bonuses, he worked a couple of days a week for an hour or two each day. When I
hired him I followed my accountants rules, he worked for others in my neighborhood and told me he was a contractor, I made sure he understood no paid
holidays or annual bonus as he was a contractor.
I then contacted my attorney as I vowed to never get bent over again without just cause, the gardener then said he had worked for me for 6 years and
3x the hours he actually worked, my attorney then explained to me the labor laws had changed some to protect workers and that it is very tough to ever
win unless you everything paid and documented, the worker wanted $40,000+ pesos, my attorney told me for $10,000p he would go to court and guarantee
the worker would not receive 1 peso, or pay him $2,500p to go to court with me and see what happens. I took option 2 on principle(bad decision in
Mexico usually) and went to court 2 times, I had my attorney offer $4,000p to get it over with and they took it.
Afterwards I spoke with my attorney at length to find out how to make sure this does not ever happen again as I had done before, the bottom line is
only when you receive a legal factura are you not responsible for employee benefits, at least here in Los Cabos.
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CaboMagic
Super Nomad
Posts: 1113
Registered: 4-30-2005
Member Is Offline
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Disclaimer: My response is based on our 20 yrs experiences in CSL - your situation may and probably will be different.
First suggestion is to forget nearly everything you think you know about what 'employer' 'employee' (definitions) arrangements are in the US or
Canada. Mexico's system is designed for employer to be responsible for paying for all the items mentioned in the excellent article referenced by Bob
& Susan- and will be held responsible FOREVER for payment - period. And, should you be unable to pay in dollars or pesos, any amount ANY employee
is determined by Labor board to be 'due/owed' will be taken from you in whatever asset that means necessary - and that includes your car/s, boat/s,
house/s, raw land ..
And, remember too that Mexico's 'judicial system' is not like what you may think of, or know about, from the USA. Deep pockets required. Make that
really DEEP pockets.
and another important point - if you terminate someone be prepared to dig deep - deepER- to pay them off - even if they stole ridiculous sums of funds
(proven), forged signatures (including signature of a deceased person who had died 2 years prior) on vehicle registrations, and used your
business/personal name to buy property for themselves - all proven - and the labor board actually then ruled in their favor. No exaggeration.
I too would be interested in, and appreciate knowing any details Gypsy Jan would care to share.
[Edited on 1-16-2014 by CaboMagic]
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jimgrms
Senior Nomad
Posts: 664
Registered: 9-30-2005
Location: oceanside ca
Member Is Offline
Mood: its always good
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Reading this make me want to never hire someone in Mexico, very restrictive to me .
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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If you have employees in Mexico, they will own you.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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