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Cisco
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Border Agent Kills Man Who Threw Rock at Him
Posted Feb 19, 2014 10:23 AM CST
"A US Border Patrol agent who claims he feared for his life after a rock hit his head reacted by shooting and killing the man who hurled the stone. It
marks the ninth fatal shooting involving rock throwing since 2010. The unnamed agent was patrolling a smuggling trail east of San Diego early Tuesday
when he came upon men suspected of crossing the border illegally; rocks were thrown at him, with one hitting his head. The San Diego Union-Tribune
describes one of them as being as large as a basketball, and many of the rest fist-sized. The AP reports that the incident fuels an ongoing debate
over whether lethal force is justified as a response to rock attacks. The Border Patrol has long maintained that rocks are deadly weapons, and has
rejected proposals that would prevent it from responding to them with deadly force.
Under current policy, agents can use deadly force if they have a reasonable belief that their lives or the lives of others are in danger. Agents were
attacked with rocks 185 times in the 2012 fiscal year, making it the No. 2 type of assault, according to the Department of Homeland Security inspector
general. They responded with gunfire 22 times and with less-than-lethal force—such as pepper spray and batons—42 times. The rock-thrower was
pronounced dead at the scene; it's unclear how many times he was shot, but the agent fired at least twice."
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Bajaboy
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Darwin award? Throw a rock at a guy with a gun
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jbcoug
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This isn't a political issue, it's an intelligence issue. The rock thrower didn't have any.
\"The average dog is a nicer person than the average person.\" Andy Rooney
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DENNIS
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So???? What's the problem?
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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mtgoat666
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whenever i hear about border patrol agents gunning down rock throwers, something that happens much too frequently, i am reminded of the david and
goliath story and the opening scene of 2001 space odyssey,...
someone needs to warn mexican citizens in the border regions that border patrol agents are not too bright, shoot first and ask qs later, and are a
protected class of citizens that cannot be indicted for their incompetence or flagrant civil rights violations.
what is really needed is for ALL law enforcement to wear video cameras so the REAL story is documented. the non-video-ed stories told by LE are
always half-truths, filled with bald faced lies or lies of omission.
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wessongroup
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Well, I'm sure you have "factual evidence" to support that statement 
I do like the camera idea through ... certainly could help in disputes over who said what .. and if the "camera" isn't damaged by a rock ... one
WOULD have a record
Must say, a rock the size of a basketball would be pretty hard to "throw" ... in most cases 
When young we were taught NOT to throw rocks at people ... go figure
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Hook
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You're right, Goat, it happens too frequently.
Maybe after this incident, word will get around that you don't throw rocks at border patrol agents. No, make that ANYONE in a uni ON EITHER SIDE OF
THE BORDER, toting a gun.
Many of us have said, "stupid should hurt", instead of being coddled. I guess it resulted in the ultimate hurt this time.........
[Edited on 2-19-2014 by Hook]
[Edited on 2-20-2014 by Hook]
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rts551
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How do you throw a rock as big as a basketball? Thinking about it...someone that strong wouldn't need a rock.
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jbcoug
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Goat,
You think the border patrol agents are not too smart, what does that make the rock thrower? Somewhere around marooon, cretin, imbecil...........
\"The average dog is a nicer person than the average person.\" Andy Rooney
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Bajahowodd
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The underlying issue here is that we have become a country controlled by by zenophobes.
In DC, there will be no action on immigration reform is even considered until "our borders are secured".
Look around the rest of the world and try to find a border between neighboring countries that is as, or more fortified than ours and Mexico. It is
both sad and ridiculous.
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freediverbrian
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try to find two neighboring countries that have a greater economic diversity that is the sad problem
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wessongroup
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Try Switzerland ... appears they have started on the "walls"
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DENNIS
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That age-old question:
What came first?? The bullet or the rock??
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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David K
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Should the Border Patrol have their guns and bullets replaced with boxes of rocks?
Was the Border Patrol doing its job, and inside the territory of the United States?
Did the border patrol fire first (not likely as it would have been amazing for the victim to throw a rock after he was killed)?
A rock to the head can very well be lethal.
Why are there Mexican citizens lined up along the border (or inside the United States attacking law enforcement officers)... are they declaring war?
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Look around the rest of the world and try to find a border between neighboring countries that is as, or more fortified than ours and Mexico. It is
both sad and ridiculous. |
The border between Mexico and Guatemala isn't exactly fantasyland.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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David K
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North Korea shoots both invaders or it's own people getting too close to the border. Lot's of 'socialist' countries had to shoot their own people who
tried to leave, otherwise nobody would stay. 
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DENNIS
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Border Tales
By Elise Cooper
Border Security on the Mexican border does not receive the attention it should. It must be considered a national security issue. American Thinker
interviewed border ranchers and law enforcement to understand their views regarding threats and solutions to America's security problem.
Many of the ranchers interviewed feel betrayed and abandoned. They cite instances of illegals using their homes and territory. Kelly Glenn-Kimbro,
an Arizona rancher, told the story of a Mexican woman who had a baby in their ranch pasture and walked up to the house asking for help. Dr. Gary
Thrasher relayed the story that one day after coming home he went upstairs to find illegals who had gone through the doggy door. As he was
confronting them he heard his downstairs shower being used by two Mexican women. There is the horror story of Robert Krentz who was murdered by an
illegal shortly after his expressed his concern over his safety at a border security meeting. A rancher from a family who were afraid to give their
name concurred and told how they were threatened after putting up infra-red cameras, finding a picture of a masked man placing his gun in front of the
camera.
They are telling their stories because of the belief that most Americans have no idea what is really happening at the border. One solution would be
having the Border Patrol and the ranchers work as a cohesive unit. Instead of being told not to detain or hold the illegals, they want to be able to
capture them once they trespass on their ranch until the Border Patrol can arrive. It can take Border Patrol agents up to an hour depending on their
location. One rancher summarized everyone's feelings that "as American citizens we should have the right of self defense."
Other solutions include having more "boots on the ground," which should include the redeployment of the National Guard, more operating bases directly
on the border, and a change of the mentality from a law enforcement philosophy to a military one. According to the ranchers, the border should be
viewed as an enemy line which at this time is not being protected. Another rancher, John Ladd, would like to see the reinstatement of portable towers
directly on the border. He explained that they were removed because the Mexicans started shooting at them and they were not bulletproof.
All the ranchers interviewed agree that the number of illegals crossing the border has diminished, but view this as a misleading statistic. They feel
Border Patrol is trying to protect the border but is handicapped by the bureaucracy who want to show that the border is exponentially more secure.
For example, an area is secured, allowing the ranchers to see improvement, and then the manpower is pulled out for another area. Anna, whose ranch is
just a few miles from the border stated "of course things get better, people are there, but as the manpower leaves, the security actually gets worse
over time."
Tim Sullivan, in charge of the Douglas, Arizona Border Patrol station, defends the philosophy, "We are making a dent since there are less people
illegally entering the country which means there will be fewer apprehensions; yet, those entering the country are always looking for ways to beat us."
He also sees the border security problem as a national security threat but unfortunately does not think "the sense of urgency among the American
people is there yet."
It is a war zone between Border Patrol agents and the drug runners/smugglers. Rocks the size of softballs are used against the agents as well as
lethal weapons. Many of the Border Patrol SUV's have been re-constructed with rod iron fencing around the windows and windshield to protect these
officers. Sullivan wants Americans to understand that the agents have a personal desire to secure the border since they are part of the community,
raising their families in the area. His solution is to build taller, heavier, double layered fences with ditches between them. He is glad that there
is now funding for a permanent eastern base as well as two temporary camps in the remote areas. The best way to secure the border is using an "all of
the above approach" that includes more agents, better fencing, video surveillance cameras, radar trucks, handheld detectors, ground sensors, lights,
helicopters, UAV's, and specialty units on horses and bicycles. A Border Patrol official wants the National Guard to remain at the border (their
deployment is up this June) because "the guard is good at spotting aliens crossing the border. We don't have to be where they are observing. They
are the additional eyes for us. Boots on the ground is what will lead to success."
Homeland Security always cites that apprehensions are down as proof that the border is becoming secure. However, Douglas, Arizona Chief of Police
Alberto Melis estimates that the statistics of those caught entering America illegally range from four in ten to one in 2.6. He compares the
apprehension statistics to fishing for salmon in the river: you can count the fish caught, not the ones that got away. What is needed is a baseline
statistic. Cochise County Sheriff Larry Deaver agrees and argues that "you can't catch what you don't see. Who are the people that got away? For
me, secure needs to mean safe. The border is less safe than it has ever been because the illegals are more determined and more dangerous." Both the
Sheriff and Police Chief want to see more boots on the ground and technology including ground level fiberoptic cables.
Michael Braun, the former U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration Chief of Operations, explains that the drug cartels became a very formidable threat
over the last seven decades, because high level government and security officials cut deals with them to keep them in check, and in many cases, to
line their pockets. The cartels, driven by an insatiable greed, consistently broke all of these deals, evolved, and simply became more emboldened,
stronger, and more efficient. He would like to see the use of UAV's that have look down capability, and the significant increase in personnel
necessary to monitor what is being collected by the platforms. With this combination of technology and human assets a target area can be determined
to allow patrol agents to helicopter in, make arrests and seize valuable and deadly contraband.
Border security is an issue which has not been on the forefront of America's consciousness. The goal has to be to stop people illegally entering the
country. Homeland Security needs to quit quoting a useless statistic, those apprehended. Besides improving and increasing technology as well as
having a stronger presence on the border, baseline numbers must be established to see the successes and failures. These statistics should include
those illegally entering the country, those apprehended, and those that escaped. The numbers game as well as a "do little attitude" by Homeland
Security has to change. There must be a need to confront the problem or it will be to the detriment of America's national security.
Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/04/border_tales.html at February 19, 2014 - 06:38:14 PM CST
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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Bajahowodd
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Just wonder if there was free and unfettered passage between the three North American Nations. Just think about it.
There was a time when the Mexican economy was so awful that people wanted to leave in droves. I really don't think it's the same today.
Major international manufacturers have built plants in Mexico. There are many more jobs today than there were 20 years ago.
Does anyone have any idea as to how many illegal Canadians are in the US? Simply because they are of similar complection and speak English, they
pass.
I know it won't happen in my lifetime, but if unfettered border crossing was allowed, I'm certain that it would achieve a homeostasis resulting in
many Mexicans opting to cross back to their homeland, simply because there is simply not enough jobs.
And I want to reiterate the idea that while no one appears to be upset by illegal Canadians, when it comes to Mexicans, we need to build walls, fences
and shoot the folks.
Does that happen between Germany and Hungary? They do speak different languages.
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
whenever i hear about border patrol agents gunning down rock throwers, something that happens much too frequently, i am reminded of the david and
goliath story and the opening scene of 2001 space odyssey,...
someone needs to warn mexican citizens in the border regions that border patrol agents are not too bright, shoot first and ask qs later, and are a
protected class of citizens that cannot be indicted for their incompetence or flagrant civil rights violations.
what is really needed is for ALL law enforcement to wear video cameras so the REAL story is documented. the non-video-ed stories told by LE are
always half-truths, filled with bald faced lies or lies of omission. |
It's not a game, Goat. "Fair" does not inter into it. Intelligence of the Agent is also not an issue----------the ISSUE is self-defence, and
Officer's have been legally able to defend themselves FOREVER, as far as I know. Officers are not payed to put up with life-threatening or crazy
dangerous situations without taking proper and sanctioned efforts to protect themselves. It is as simple as that.
Yes, Darwin in action, with predictable results. Thank Zeus the Agent was not injured worse than he was.
Barry
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
North Korea shoots both invaders or it's own people getting too close to the border. Lot's of 'socialist' countries had to shoot their own people who
tried to leave, otherwise nobody would stay. |
Can you please name one "socialist" country who has done this? Some dictatorships, yes, but socialist?
Maybe Denmark, Sweden, Finland, who?????
The report in the paper lost all credibility when they mentioned a rock as big as a basketball ---
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