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pauldavidmena
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Location: Centerville, MA, USA
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Tres Santos
I've only been visiting Todos Santos since 2008, but there's always been talk of a big development coming into town. So far none have gained too much
traction, but Tres Santos seems pretty close to happening. The cynic in me smirks at the thought of it being a "Wellness Community" as described in this article from the Yahoo Travel website. Has anyone in the Todos Santos area formed an opinion of the project - pro or con?
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weebray
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Location: La Paz
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The bloom is already off the rose in TS. The quaint as well as magnificent old casas have been bought up to be rented by hucksters selling pho
trinkets from pho artisans. When a sweet old casa is converted by some dirt pimp developer into a retail setting, the die has been cast. There is no
going back, the place's future will be how successful it is now as a place to sell someone's "cool" photos of the sunset. If you swoon at downtown La
Jolla, you're gonna love Todos Santos. More to come! Trust me. Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm just cranky and I don't have to go there but it makes me
sad.
'
Every beautiful beach in the world needs a few condo towers - NOT.
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tiotomasbcs
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Oh yeah. Big Money! Recent Gringo makes it look like a favor to the community. Boutique Hotels and golf courses that give work to locals. I'm not
sure. How many hotel rooms--100's?? Where will all the workers live during construction? Pueblo Magico? Look at Cerritos Beach w/developer being
arrested in US for fraud. Like Cabo Pulmo, what about limited water availability vs Agriculture! You can't fool me. Tio Oh yeah, Weeb, Botox and
Marin are already here, 3 months a year. Smiles. Tomas
[Edited on 5-20-2014 by tiotomasbcs]
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pauldavidmena
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It makes me sad that what had once been a beautiful, sleepy place could be a Disney theme park by the time I'm ready to retire.
[Edited on 5-21-2014 by pauldavidmena]
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by weebray
The bloom is already off the rose in TS. The quaint as well as magnificent old casas have been bought up to be rented by hucksters selling pho
trinkets from pho artisans. When a sweet old casa is converted by some dirt pimp developer into a retail setting, the die has been cast. There is no
going back, the place's future will be how successful it is now as a place to sell someone's "cool" photos of the sunset. If you swoon at downtown La
Jolla, you're gonna love Todos Santos. More to come! Trust me. Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm just cranky and I don't have to go there but it makes me
sad.
' |
Cranky is right. I think you have it backwards, quaint and rustic is nice for tourists, but it gets a
little old for the residents of a town. As someone who has been coming to Todos Santos for 30 years and have lived in the area for over 20, I can say
that most of the changes are appreciated, I don't miss standing in line at a caseta to make a phone call, the choice of 3 mediocre restaurants, the
crappy and dangerous highway, and the lack of entertainment and culture. You should think before you spew and denigrate the artists and artisans of
Todos Santos because we are blessed to be the home of some very talented people here. Todos Santos is a real town, it's not Disneyland, and it's a
great place to live. Do you long for the horse and buggy days in your town?
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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pauldavidmena
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Location: Centerville, MA, USA
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@monoloco - you have a good point. Living off the grid for a week might be good therapy, but we're considering Todos Santos as a place to live because
it has a combination of modern conveniences and Old World charm. I don't think it's wrong to have high-speed internet on an unpaved street! I guess my
original post was wondering aloud about whether Tres Santos would tilt that balance in the wrong direction - one toward overdevelopment.
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weebray
Super Nomad
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Location: La Paz
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Mood: lleno
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Monoloco, I have to laugh when the old "I've been here longer than you" card is thrown up. I've been here a long time but what difference does that
make? You can see that attitude every morning at Club Cruiseros where "old-timers" gather in a circle, to the exclusion of newbies, to discuss how
wonderful it was here when Eisenhower was president. I have no objection to local "improvements". My point is that when you destroy another cool old
house in centro, instead of restoring it, you take away a part of the sole of the pueblo. I will grant you there are some good artists in TS as well
as some great people with good ideas for music, film, art and food. There are also too many great old casas that have been converted into "trinket"
crap and "art" galleries financed by some too rich gringo with fur on his chest that would make a Bigelo carpet salesman drool with envy. The
"gallery" is no more than a showcase to display his trophy wife and her bad art. It's there because he has the money and after he is gone back to
Vale his legacy will be the death of another piece of the heart of a great little pueblo. In Todos Santos I am an outsider looking in. My passion
and interest lies in La Paz, centro. I have ideas and time to try to preserve what I love here. I fight a losing battle against the indiscriminate
removal of 100+ yr. old trees. I fight against tearing down great old buildings to convert them to Oxxo's. I visit TS fairly often, some of the
"progress" does annoy me. Maybe you agree, maybe you don't, I don't really care, it's just my opinion.
Every beautiful beach in the world needs a few condo towers - NOT.
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
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Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
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Mood: happy and retired
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The drawing of what this development will look like reminds me of the plans for the villages at Loreto,LOL..... and the ignorant author prolonging the
Eagles / Hotel California myth....what a joke!!!!!
I hear the whales song
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pauldavidmena
Super Nomad
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Location: Centerville, MA, USA
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I'm fairly new to Todos Santos, but I know this isn't the first big development to be proposed. Most of them have fallen to the wayside for one reason
or another, but this one seems likely to go forward. I can only hope that its scope can be negotiated down to a reasonable size, and that it will be a
boon to the pueblo instead of a boat anchor.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by weebray
Monoloco, I have to laugh when the old "I've been here longer than you" card is thrown up. I've been here a long time but what difference does that
make? You can see that attitude every morning at Club Cruiseros where "old-timers" gather in a circle, to the exclusion of newbies, to discuss how
wonderful it was here when Eisenhower was president. I have no objection to local "improvements". My point is that when you destroy another cool old
house in centro, instead of restoring it, you take away a part of the sole of the pueblo. I will grant you there are some good artists in TS as well
as some great people with good ideas for music, film, art and food. There are also too many great old casas that have been converted into "trinket"
crap and "art" galleries financed by some too rich gringo with fur on his chest that would make a Bigelo carpet salesman drool with envy. The
"gallery" is no more than a showcase to display his trophy wife and her bad art. It's there because he has the money and after he is gone back to
Vale his legacy will be the death of another piece of the heart of a great little pueblo. In Todos Santos I am an outsider looking in. My passion
and interest lies in La Paz, centro. I have ideas and time to try to preserve what I love here. I fight a losing battle against the indiscriminate
removal of 100+ yr. old trees. I fight against tearing down great old buildings to convert them to Oxxo's. I visit TS fairly often, some of the
"progress" does annoy me. Maybe you agree, maybe you don't, I don't really care, it's just my opinion. |
I
can't think of one "great old casa" that has been "converted into trinket crap", I know of a couple that have been converted into B&Bs and Inns
and a couple more that have been made into fine art galleries, but for the most part most of the fine old residences of Todos Santos are still being
used as residences and owned by the original families. Most of the "trinket crap" is in cheap stalls thrown up by Mexicans looking to fleece the
tourists, so who do you blame for that, the tourists that buy it, or the paisanos who sell it? I don't care for all the changes, but Todos Santos
does enforce regulations designed to preserve the ambiance of the historic core, but the bottom line is that people have to make a living, and they
are doing it by utilizing their private property for commerce the same way they always have. It's easy to get all nostalgic, but on the whole, Todos
Santos is much more of a livable place now than it was 25 years ago, if my saying that makes it sound like I'm throwing out the "I've been here longer
than you card", so be it, but I've been here for a while, and those are my observations. You sound like a bitter grumpy person weebray. I don't know
where you are from, but do you long for your town to return to dirt roads and kerosene lamps?
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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tiotomasbcs
Super Nomad
Posts: 1837
Registered: 7-30-2007
Location: El Pescadero
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I must beg a difference, Amigo Monoloco...I'm talking big projects but I also see a big difference in big pocket newcomers who can't stand dirt roads
and Trash. Cerritos Beach is not pretty anymore and El Faro or Punta Lobos projects cannot be considered good, for locals and Nortes in the long
run. Old Haciendas like Juanitas market now rent beach cruisers?? The high school Internado has remodeled into Guayacura--fancy smancy
Hotel-ristorante. Historic District bldg copies sell
real Estate at $100 us M2 and pottery at super Cabo prices!! La Coronela sells this tourist trap chit in a Historic Bld. Hotel California? Please.
I have lowered my expectations to survive. I do love a few things like a Bank and Interenet but if I don't voice opposition I'll have to move
to....Guerrero Negro..and open a Galleria... Tio..
[Edited on 5-23-2014 by tiotomasbcs]
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
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Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tiotomasbcs
I must beg a difference, Amigo Monoloco...I'm talking big projects but I also see a big difference in big pocket newcomers who can't stand dirt roads
and Trash. Cerritos Beach is not pretty anymore and El Faro or Punta Lobos projects cannot be considered good, for locals and Nortes in the long
run. Old Haciendas like Juanitas market now rent beach cruisers?? Historic District bldg copies sell
real Estate at $100 us M2 and pottery at super Cabo prices!! La Coronela sells this tourist trap chit in a Historic Bld. Hotel California? Please.
I have lowered my expectations to survive. I do love a few things like a Bank and Interenet but if I don't voice opposition I'll have to move
to....Guerrero Negro..and open a Galleria... Tio.. |
No need to go that far amigo, I can get you into a
sweet fixer-upper in El Rosario de Las Gallinas for a lot less than $100m2. You can enjoy the tranquilidad with no worries about developers or tourist
traps. Maybe you and weebray can be neighbors.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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pauldavidmena
Super Nomad
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Location: Centerville, MA, USA
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I guess we won't know what Tres Santos will mean for Todos Santos until it gets there - assuming that it does. In the mean time, it's more of a
philosophical question: how much progress is too much? Or to make it more personal, are gringos like me - looking for Baja sunshine and simplicity as
long as we have bottled water and high-speed internet - part of the solution, or part of the problem?
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tiotomasbcs
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El Carrizal is 20 miles north TS and where they stuck all the Farmworkers! Never been there myself but friends/cops/firemen say weekends are
Barbaric?! Construction workers on these projects are all from Oaxaca and live like ..... not a sweet look at behind the scenes. Locals sell them
used clothes in Tianges and they drink Cana to lose their tired misery. Reality? Need sunglasses to look beyond .. Cesar chavez and workers
Rights? I'm on Vacation . Let's hope for moderation/ slow growth. Tio ps just a Sixties Child.
[Edited on 5-23-2014 by tiotomasbcs]
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SFandH
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| Quote: | Originally posted by pauldavidmena
how much progress is too much? |
In a large way it depends upon the available infrastructure - water, sewerage, electricity, garbage collection and disposal, etc.
One of the annoying aspects of growth like this is the constant construction projects everywhere to support the growth.
I used to surf Pedrito and Cerritos in the late 80s, early 90s. TS was a great place then. A nice, clean Mexican town with the only gringos being
surfers, beach bums, and a few RVers. Now, the CSL miasma has enveloped the town.
Relative to other populated Baja destinations though, it is still one of the best, IMHO.
[Edited on 5-23-2014 by SFandH]
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by pauldavidmena
I guess we won't know what Tres Santos will mean for Todos Santos until it gets there - assuming that it does. In the mean time, it's more of a
philosophical question: how much progress is too much? Or to make it more personal, are gringos like me - looking for Baja sunshine and simplicity as
long as we have bottled water and high-speed internet - part of the solution, or part of the problem? |
I
don't know if Tres Santos will fly or not, but I'd much rather see a well planned development happen than another free for all surf ghetto like what's
happening at Los Cerritos. The fact is that there are more people on the planet everyday so almost any desirable place is going to get more crowded.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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pauldavidmena
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
I don't know if Tres Santos will fly or not, but I'd much rather see a well planned development happen than another free for all surf ghetto like
what's happening at Los Cerritos. |
You and me both. Hopefully all of the fretting will be an overreaction, and Tres Santos a benefit for Todos Santos.
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pauldavidmena
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Here is another article about the Tres Santos project. I shudder at the use of the word "Massive", although it appears that it will be a phased
implementation and not an instant sprawl. I can only hope that it will mean a more vibrant Todos Santos, and not Cabo Norte.
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Udo
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My question...
Between South Pescadero and Todos Santos area, there are no open beach access areas. A development like this would make that even worse. One won't be
able to get within an eye shot to see sand or water.
However, I was persistent in trying to find a way to the ocean:
In mid TS, I drove several dirt roads and one of them took me to within 300 feet of the water. And that area turned out to be a turtle
sanctuary.
The other two places (as I said, I am[/b[ persistent: one was driving down the wash near north Pescadero, and the other place was a well
camouflaged dirt road that drops off sharply, near the south end of Pescadero
Most of TS and Pescadero houses are fully walled-in, and there is no path or room to walk between the houses. I don't know why one would wall
themselves in their living encampment. Does it not make it tough to enjoy the wonderful surroundings that the area is famous for?
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Udo
My question...
Between South Pescadero and Todos Santos area, there are no open beach access areas. A development like this would make that even worse. One won't be
able to get within an eye shot to see sand or water.
However, I was persistent in trying to find a way to the ocean:
In mid TS, I drove several dirt roads and one of them took me to within 300 feet of the water. And that area turned out to be a turtle
sanctuary.
The other two places (as I said, I am[/b[ persistent: one was driving down the wash near north Pescadero, and the other place was a well
camouflaged dirt road that drops off sharply, near the south end of Pescadero
Most of TS and Pescadero houses are fully walled-in, and there is no path or room to walk between the houses. I don't know why one would wall
themselves in their living encampment. Does it not make it tough to enjoy the wonderful surroundings that the area is famous for?
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Udo, What you are saying is simply not true, there are lots of public access places, even ones where. you
can drive on to the beach. Just between Los Cerritos and San Pedrito, I can think of at least a dozen spots where you can access some beautiful (and
empty) beaches. Legally, I believe that there is supposed to be a public access every 1000mts. There is one BIG walled subdivision about halfway up
but there is an access point at the north end of it.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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