submarine_dbk
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Time to replace the fridge/freezer. Recommendations?
I am looking for first-hand information/experience on propane and high-efficiency electric fridge/freezers for use in our house in Baja.
The current electric fridge has been a bit of a dog when it comes to reliability and it is hard on the battery bank (in spite of a fairly low 407
kwh/year and energy star rating). We have an ample PV array and battery bank, but the fridge draws a lot more power for longer periods of time than
planned for, especially when the fridge runs in hot weather and the unit has to work very hard.
So I'm researching other electrics and some propane models as a possible alternative. The new fridge would be used primarily during hotter late
spring and summer months and would be off the remainder of the time. Primarily interested in 18/19/21 cu ft models.
The propane ones I've looked at are Crystal Cold, EZ-Freeze and Diamond. All of which look pretty much the same and have similar features, similar
cost and fuel usage. Not interested in the smaller Servel, Norcold, Dometic and similar brands.
There are so many electric models available, its hard to know what specs to trust - so I'm interested in your first-hand experience.
I've found lots of info on the relative cost of operation vs electric. I'm also aware of the high efficiency of chest style fridge and freezer and am
considering those as well - but prefer a more traditional model fridge/freezer.
So a few questions for those with experience with propane models:
- What Brand/size/model do you have?
- How well does it do when the weather gets really hot - can it still keep things cool?
- How easy is it to clean and defrost cooling fins and freezer space?
- How is the reliability?
- Would you recommend?
For those with high efficiency electric models, same questions apply.
Thanks to all for your help.
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willardguy
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build a couple chest freezers, one a fridge conversion, adding 3 or 4 inches of extra insulation. I would pass on the sundanzer's, been a ton of
failures lately with no dealer support. what we do is just leave the freezer running continually during solar hours then shut it down when the sun
dips. works for us!
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Bob and Susan
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propane fridgs don't work in the humidity...you wont be happy
i'd stay with an electric unit but ac your kitchen while you are there
my neighbors have some great 24v units but they are expensive
there is a new COPPEL store in santa rosalia that sells ac units and delivers them locally
a quiet generator could power the ac units
we run 2 electric fridgs...
its true there was a BIG draw in the summertime but when the kitchen is cooled with ac the draw is normal
and
the wife and kids will be happier too
remember you NEED a bigger wire from the solar panels to the batteries
for use in the summer period
you'll lose a lot of power in the summer if you have a small wire
we use a #2 wire but your house could get by with a #6 wire...
anything smaller and you cut your panel output in half or more
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monoloco
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We have had several different types of gas fridges over the years, and have found the old Servels from the 40's to be the most reliable, our old
Servel is close to 70 years old and has outlasted 2 Dometics and a Consul. Defrosting is no problem, we just put everything in an ice chest for a few
hours and turn it all the way up. The chest freezer to fridge conversions are economical and work very well, but then you still need a freezer. The
problem with standard refrigerators and solar systems is the high draw during the defrost cycle. I know a couple of people with Crystal Colds and they
seem to work well but cost north of 2k, which, after also factoring in the price of propane, might be better spent on a larger battery bank.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
propane fridgs don't work in the humidity...you wont be happy
i'd stay with an electric unit but ac your kitchen while you are there
my neighbors have some great 24v units but they are expensive
there is a new COPPEL store in santa rosalia that sells ac units and delivers them locally
a quiet generator could power the ac units
we run 2 electric fridgs...
its true there was a BIG draw in the summertime but when the kitchen is cooled with ac the draw is normal
and
the wife and kids will be happier too
remember you NEED a bigger wire from the solar panels to the batteries
for use in the summer period
you'll lose a lot of power in the summer if you have a small wire
we use a #2 wire but your house could get by with a #6 wire...
anything smaller and you cut your panel output in half or more |
It's impossible to make blanket statements
about wire size, wire size is a factor of the amperage of the panels and the distance from the panels to the charge controller.
[Edited on 7-12-2014 by monoloco]
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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willardguy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
We have had several different types of gas fridges over the years, and have found the old Servels from the 40's to be the most reliable, our old
Servel is close to 70 years old and has outlasted 2 Dometics and a Consul. Defrosting is no problem, we just put everything in an ice chest for a few
hours and turn it all the way up. The chest freezer to fridge conversions are economical and work very well, but then you still need a freezer. The
problem with standard refrigerators and solar systems is the high draw during the defrost cycle. I know a couple of people with Crystal Colds and they
seem to work well but cost north of 2k, which, after also factoring in the price of propane, might be better spent on a larger battery bank.
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what the heck could you buy today that would still be working fine 70 or 80 years from now??? amazing!
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baja2013
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fridge
Had the same problem.........dometic 2810 failed last trip ....went to Santa Rosalia...took a kill a watt meter, tested them and found one for $400
US$ draws 1 amp and 100 watts works perfect its a 11 cu ft Mabe ...told it was made by Whiirpool for 3rd world ....
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willardguy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by baja2013
Had the same problem.........dometic 2810 failed last trip ....went to Santa Rosalia...took a kill a watt meter, tested them and found one for $400
US$ draws 1 amp and 100 watts works perfect its a 11 cu ft Mabe ...told it was made by Whiirpool for 3rd world .... |
the grid in santa rosalia is only 100 VAC?
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bledito
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Keep a CO2 monitor alarm near that 80 years old servel. Peoples Gas Company in Chicago paid peoople to get rid of them as they are dangereous when
they go bad and produce CO2
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willardguy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bledito
Keep a CO2 monitor alarm near that 80 years old servel. Peoples Gas Company in Chicago paid peoople to get rid of them as they are dangereous when
they go bad and produce CO2 |
CO or CO2?
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bledito
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i believe it's co2 the monitors they sell for homes
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willardguy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bledito
i believe it's co2 the monitors they sell for homes |
CO is carbon monoxide, the bad stuff you need the
detector for in your home. CO2 is carbon dioxide, i installed CO2 detectors in malls and places many people would congregate in, I don't really know
if it were high levels or low levels that were problematic. I just put em in, got paid, went home and drank beer! 
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bledito
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correct it is CO not CO2. it is high levels tht cause the danger.
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bledito
Keep a CO2 monitor alarm near that 80 years old servel. Peoples Gas Company in Chicago paid peoople to get rid of them as they are dangereous when
they go bad and produce CO2 |
They are not dangerous unless used in a small sealed room, if they are used in
a well ventilated location they are fine.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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bledito
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every year in the midwest someone or several someones, a whole family dies from CO posioning. these are homes with closed doors windows. so if your
running ac in baja and have one of these gas fired fridges the same possibility exists. a CO monitor will protect against this happening to you. CO
builds up in your system in a high CO enviorment. if your unit, fridge, is not functioning properly this can happen quickly. why take a chance? just
get the monitor and keep the batteries fresh.
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Fernweh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
propane fridgs don't work in the humidity...you wont be happy
i'd stay with an electric unit but ac your kitchen while you are there
my neighbors have some great 24v units but they are expensive
there is a new COPPEL store in santa rosalia that sells ac units and delivers them locally
a quiet generator could power the ac units
we run 2 electric fridgs...
its true there was a BIG draw in the summertime but when the kitchen is cooled with ac the draw is normal
and
the wife and kids will be happier too
remember you NEED a bigger wire from the solar panels to the batteries
for use in the summer period
you'll lose a lot of power in the summer if you have a small wire
we use a #2 wire but your house could get by with a #6 wire...
anything smaller and you cut your panel output in half or more |
It's impossible to make blanket statements
about wire size, wire size is a factor of the amperage of the panels and the distance from the panels to the charge controller.
[Edited on 7-12-2014 by monoloco] |
Very much correct, but you want to look at the ambient temperatures as well, and might have to de-rate the ampacities of the wire being used.
36 - 40C multiply the rating with 0.88, 41 - 45 C multiply the rating with 0.82
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bonanza bucko
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We have a Sundanzer electric fridge in our house at Gonzaga Bay that we are very happy with. It is a 120V model but you can get 12/24V DC versions
too. We didn't want any 12V in the house with the extra amps that requires. The Sundanzer has been running 24/7/365 for about five years with no
trouble. It uses a very small amount of juice....I think I remember that the number is under .5 amp @ 120VAC. It is a chest fridge so the cold
doesn't spill out when The Boss (wife) opens the door and looks for stuff.
I think it cost me about $1200...about 1/3 what a SunFrost costs. You can get them from most solar sellers...we use TheSolarBiz.com but others are
good too.
We also have two small chest freezers in the house but one of them is used as a fridge. You can get a device from KegWorks.com that allows you to set
the temperature in a chest freezer to 35-37 F that you need in a fridge....only cost me about $50. It's hard to get a chest fridge but with this
gizmo you don't need to go looking. The cheap chest freezers made for The Third World seem to be the best because they are not automatic defrost
hobbies....the way auto defrost works is to put the coils inside the chest which adds heat to the box....not good. You want the coils be be outside
the box in back and the only ones that have that are cheap ones....got ours at Home Depot. Walmart has them too if you can fight your way into the
place.
Our solar system runs all these fridges and freezers just fine in hot WX...we have a Magnasine 4024 inverter on ten 250 watt solar panels and 8 big
L-16 batteries.
The Boss even gets to run a hair dryer and the toaster when I'm not looking :-)
BB
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bonanza bucko
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Re wire sizes: Higher volts makes it possible to use smaller wire sizes because the Amps go down (VXA=W and A/W=V etc.) We have our solar panels
wired at 60 V (nominally) and we use an MPPT charge controller which takes the 60 V coming from the panels and reduces that to just a slosh above
whatever the voltage of the batteries is (usually something like 24V) and converts the difference into added amps....faster charging. So high voltage
wire jobs on your panels produces smaller Amps and wire size and facilitates the "overhead" used by the MPPT charge controller. Nice.
We have neighbors who are running water makers and air conditioners on solar systems now....the tech is really getting better. Don't buy stock in
PG&E or SDG&E unless you go short.:-)
(But the main thing that's wrong with solar installations up here in Gringoland is the ^%#$&#@!s permit process, gummint overhang and shell game
playing solar companies. In Baja where there is none of that things get cheaper and better pretty fast).
BB:-)
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