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David K
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POPE FRANCIS PLANS TO CANONIZE FRAY JUNIPERO SERRA
I got this last night from The California Missions Study Association (CMSA):
(Reuters) - Pope Francis said on Thursday that during his trip to the United States in September he would canonize Junipero Serra, a
missionary who brought Christianity to the west of the United States in the 1700s.
"In September, God willing, I will canonize Junipero Serra in the United States, who was the evangelizer of the west of the United States," he told
reporters aboard the plane taking him from Sri Lanka to Manila on the second leg of his Asian tour.
Francis is due to visit Philadelphia for a world gathering of Catholic families. While Philadelphia is the only official stop on the tour so far, he
is widely expected to visit New York to address the United Nations and Washington to meet President Barrack Obama.
Holding the canonization ceremony in the United States opens up the possibility he might visit the western part of the country where Serra worked as a
missionary.
Serra, who was born on the Spanish island of Majorca in 1713, went to the Americas in the middle of the 18th century and led one of the first
Franciscan missions in California.
He arrived in San Diego in 1769 and spent most of the rest of his life there before dying at a mission in Carmel near Monterey in 1784.
The Pope said since Serra has for centuries been considered a holy man, he had waved Church rules that require a second miracle to be attributed to
the candidate for sainthood after his beatification.
He said Serra was "a great evangelizer".
(Reporting by Philip Pullella; Editing by Jeremy Laurence)
==========================================================
Some notes:
Junipero Serra led the Franciscan missionaries to the shores of Baja California in April, 1768 to replace the Jesuits who were forced out of the New
World by Royal orders. A year later, Serra was leading an expedition north of the peninsula to establish two missions in the land then known as 'New
California' and later 'Upper California'. The missions were at San Diego and Monterey (later moved to Carmel). Along the way, Serra founded his first
mission, San Fernando de Velicata, in Baja California, a site the Jesuits were planning on building their next mission.
After 5 years of operating all the California (Baja & Alta) missions, the Franciscans agreed to allow the Dominican Order of Preachers to take
over mission duties on the peninsula, including adding new missions between San Fernando de Velicata and San Diego, to fill the void along El Camino
Real.
I have a small connection to Junipero Serra beyond my history writing...
The Serra Museum in San Diego, overlooks Mission Valley and Mission Bay. It was built in 1928-29 by the Kier Construction Company, my dad's uncles.
http://www.sandiegohistory.org/journal/79summer/serra.htm
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captkw
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miracle
2nd miracle ??? what was the first one ???? 
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mtgoat666
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???
these evangelizers were trying to exterminate the entire culture of the natives, i.e. cultural genocide, and along the way they decimated the native
population.
canonizing the leaders of this devastation is wrong. next thing you know the pope will be canonizing hitler!
[Edited on 1-16-2015 by mtgoat666]
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DENNIS
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In San Juan Capistrano, some of the local decendants despise the man to this day for turning their ancestors into slaves.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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David K
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Surviving Baja Nomad!
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David K
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Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS  |
In San Juan Capistrano, some of the local decendants despise the man to this day for turning their ancestors into slaves. |
The book I am reading now sure exposes how brutal some of the Franciscans were... The Jesuits were totally different and quite kind in comparison to
the Franciscans and Dominicans. The worst that the Jesuits may have done is force the men to have only one wife, and for that they were killed (even
the women rose up against the missionaries on that issue)!
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Bajaboy
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS |
In San Juan Capistrano, some of the local decendants despise the man to this day for turning their ancestors into slaves. |
The book I am reading now sure exposes how brutal some of the Franciscans were... The Jesuits were totally different and quite kind in comparison to
the Franciscans and Dominicans. The worst that the Jesuits may have done is force the men to have only one wife, and for that they were killed (even
the women rose up against the missionaries on that issue)!
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Is history repeating itself? I wonder how some of today's religions will be judged including many here in the US?!
[Edited on 1-16-2015 by Bajaboy]
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DianaT
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| Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS |
In San Juan Capistrano, some of the local decendants despise the man to this day for turning their ancestors into slaves. |
And who can blame them.
This pope has gotten a lot of things right, IMHO --- I really admire him over most of the modern Popes, but celebrating genocide is just wrong. 
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David K
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History shouldn't be ignored or changed because of what happened isn't popular with the current generation, but should be told as best as we can of
the events that happened in the past. There is plenty of documentation of good and bad. The missionaries came to save souls and civilize the
'heathens', in their belief... right or wrong. They did not travel (often two or more years) to arrive at a harsh desert land in order to kill anyone.
The padres stopped a lot of Indian genocide that was practiced before they baptized the natives. Killing the elderly, babies, handicapped, and enemies
was all stopped by the padres.
Don't confuse these history posts as being anything more than sharing about events (good or bad). If you travel to the (Alta) California missions, and
meet the people who run them, lecture at them, and sell at the gift shops there, you will discover the Junipero Serra is already a saint in their
eyes. Serra himself was likely a decent person, more of an administrator than preacher, but other missionaries have been documented as being brutal.
Max and I (specially Max) try and teach the facts about Serra and the padres... Disproving things like him walking the Camino Real (all missionaries
and soldiers rode on horses, mules, or burros, by Royal order), etc.
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DianaT
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
History shouldn't be ignored or changed because of what happened isn't popular with the current generation, but should be told as best as we can of
the events that happened in the past. There is plenty of documentation of good and bad. The missionaries came to save souls and civilize the
'heathens', in their belief... right or wrong. They did not travel (often two or more years) to arrive at a harsh desert land in order to kill anyone.
The padres stopped a lot of Indian genocide that was practiced before they baptized the natives. Killing the elderly, babies, handicapped, and enemies
was all stopped by the padres.
Don't confuse these history posts as being anything more than sharing about events (good or bad). If you travel to the (Alta) California missions, and
meet the people who run them, lecture at them, and sell at the gift shops there, you will discover the Junipero Serra is already a saint in their
eyes. Serra himself was likely a decent person, more of an administrator than preacher, but other missionaries have been documented as being brutal.
Max and I (specially Max) try and teach the facts about Serra and the padres... Disproving things like him walking the Camino Real (all missionaries
and soldiers rode on horses, mules, or burros, by Royal order), etc. |
As long as you continue to think that history is the writing of some "facts", you will never write anything close to history --- a very nice tour
guide yes, with lots of names, dates, trivia, and the stories according to the bias of the missionaries. History involves a lot more. Try taking
just one course sometime, a course in historiography, the history of history and the writing of history. I think, however, those are mainly offered
in grad school, but maybe you can find a good text book about historiography and then you might understand, especially understand how biased your
reference books are as are ALL history books and writings.
Of course the people at the missions in Alta California LOVE the padre --- it is their bias. Yes, the missionaries came to "save" souls and in the
process, they were apart of the genocide. That is not a statement of what is or is not popular today, genocide was the result of their intrusion for
whatever reason they came.
I understand why the Pope is doing this because he is a Catholic and a believer that the saving of "souls" was a good thing. As I stated before, I
support this Pope in many things he has done in contrast to other modern Popes, but I am sorry to see this happening.
[Edited on 1-17-2015 by DianaT]
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Mexitron
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LOL!!!
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Mexitron
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What were the two miracles, just out of curiosity.
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David K
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According to http://www.britannica.com/:
Historiography, the writing of history, especially the writing of history based on the critical examination of sources, the selection of particular
details from the authentic materials in those sources, and the synthesis of those details into a narrative that stands the test of critical
examination.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what I do... examine the sources, make personal inspections, and write the details.
To make the history more interesting or entertaining, colorful stories are made from some of the facts. Movies, as well.
The re-writing of history is done to achieve a political gain and is quite common, specially in communist nations. Ignoring or lying about the past
helps nobody in the end. One should learn from the past to improve the future and if you are not told about mistakes from the past, you are likely to
repeat it.
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rts551
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"stands the test of critical examination"...Guess you can not "stand" it, can you.
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David K
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Only one miracle has been documented so far, he needs two. However, an exception may be considered since he was already a Holy man. I am not Catholic,
so I only can report what I read...
The first miracle attributed to Junipero Serra was the cure of nun from lupus.
From the Internet:
Serra, the revered and reviled Franciscan priest who founded California's missions, has one officially recognized miracle to his name. A nun in St.
Louis was healed of lupus after praying to him, leading to Serra's beatification in 1987.
From the L.A. Times:
But sainthood requires a second miracle, defined by the church as an event that cannot be explained by science but can be attributed to the
candidate's intercession from beyond the grave.
Two years ago, Serra advocates thought they had found one. A Denver woman who had prayed to Serra delivered a healthy baby, despite a dire prognosis.
The case went to Rome, but physicians for the Vatican concluded it was not a miracle.
Now there's another possibility. Sheila E. Lichacz, a Panamanian artist, has survived 14 brain surgeries for tumors called meningiomas, after being
told time and again that she was dying. One-third of her skull was removed in surgery and replaced with acrylic plates. But they too were removed
after causing life-threatening infections.
Now a large part of her brain is covered not by bone or plates, but only by flesh.
Yet at 66, she is exuberant and stylish. On a recent trip to Santa Barbara to confer with priests about her medical history, she wore a brilliant blue
pantsuit with matching hat and turban, heavy silver chains and a black leather belt of her own design studded with 13 silver crucifixes. Her words
tumble out in a cascade of religious fervor.
"Have you ever seen anything like this?" asks Lichacz, who still has four benign tumors in her head. "Have you? Brain surgery for 45 years? Blessed
Junipero -- that poor man, he needs me. He gave it all, I'm telling you, and -- I'm not bragging -- I'm giving it all too."
Whether her story will reach the Vatican is an open question. The process of discerning miracles is grindingly meticulous and has become even more
demanding as science explains once-mysterious phenomena.
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DianaT
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | According to http://www.britannica.com/:
Historiography, the writing of history, especially the writing of history based on the critical examination of sources, the selection of particular
details from the authentic materials in those sources, and the synthesis of those details into a narrative that stands the test of critical
examination.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what I do... examine the sources, make personal inspections, and write the details.
To make the history more interesting or entertaining, colorful stories are made from some of the facts. Movies, as well.
The re-writing of history is done to achieve a political gain and is quite common, specially in communist nations. Ignoring or lying about the past
helps nobody in the end. One should learn from the past to improve the future and if you are not told about mistakes from the past, you are likely to
repeat it.
|
Once again you have chosen the simple definition and simple answer. But to remain ignorant is your choice. You will probably never understand what
history is as you have chosen to hang on to simplicity. Then again, as Mark Twain said,
"To succeed in life, you need two things; ignorance and confidence."
We are are ignorant about many things, and all of us have things about which we truly don't care to seek knowledge. One of your things just happens
to be the nature of history.
On edit --- please remember that facts in history are limited to yes, an event took place, the date it took place, and who was involved. That is it!
The why is the complicated part and is never totally factual--- it is full of bias, perspective, and interpretation. To believe that the why is a
fact just because it was written back then is ignorant. It is like saying that because Faux News reported something, it is a "fact". And that simple
definition of historiography just scratches the surface.
[Edited on 1-17-2015 by DianaT]
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David K
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I sure can see why you are not a teacher any more. Why so much hate? Life is too short to be angry all the time.
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vgabndo
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | I sure can see why you are not a teacher any more. Why so much hate? Life is too short to be angry all the time. |
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them angry. Each person who stands and claims to be an historian, a claim I have made, will be
judged by how they present their research. I have read professional work which suggested that an historian's work must take a point of view and argue
for it's truth. In the field of history, in my judgement, to do so would require a more complete education than I possess, even though I will claim to
be the living authority on certain "micro-history".
In this case, I look at an author who is an open 'human caused climate change denier' and make the judgement that I would never trust his opinion on a
less serious subject. That isn't hate or anger; it is discrimination.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Pompano
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The handwriting on the wall may be a forgery. (You must think about it.)
Christianity, sainthood and the history being taught in our modern schools? I am not a believer, except in the traits of common courtesy and respect
for another. The history of today is just that...'todays' version as somebody wants you to perceive it.
[Edited on 1-17-2015 by Pompano]
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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rts551
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| Quote: Originally posted by vgabndo | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | | I sure can see why you are not a teacher any more. Why so much hate? Life is too short to be angry all the time. |
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them angry. Each person who stands and claims to be an historian, a claim I have made, will be
judged by how they present their research. I have read professional work which suggested that an historian's work must take a point of view and argue
for it's truth. In the field of history, in my judgement, to do so would require a more complete education than I possess, even though I will claim to
be the living authority on certain "micro-history".
In this case, I look at an author who is an open 'human caused climate change denier' and make the judgement that I would never trust his opinion on a
less serious subject. That isn't hate or anger; it is discrimination. |
The easiest defense for someone without fact or reasoning is to attack the other person personally. Thus the "I sure can see why you are not a teacher
any more. Why so much hate? Life is too short to be angry all the time."
Next will be the claim he is only here for love and to help others. jejeje
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