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pacside
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 1-16-2006
Location: N. Cal
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Generator question
Hi Nomads,
I have an off grid solar powered casa on Playa Los Cerritos beach south of Todos Santos. I need to purchase and have installed a generator to help
with power and to run an air conditioner during summer months.
My questions are:
1. What type of generator to buy? I heard Kohler was the way to go. I'm not sure on size. I want to run a 1700sf home if need be entirely on the
generator. This will include a washer/dryer, refrigerator, lights, 2 bathrooms and water pump (for trucked in water). I do have a jacuzzi tub I have
never been able to use and I would like to buy and install an air conditioning unit (need help on what to buy here too). My current solar set up is
about 1350kw. It works fine on sunny days without using washer/dryer but if cloudy or there is too much demand on the system it loses power. I prefer
generator usage over increasing solar capacity for my needs. My preference is to get the best generator to cover myself. I rent the casa and guests do
not understand conserving energy so sometimes they deplete all the battery power and I don't have a backup. I was thinking a Kohler 20kw???
2. How to know it will go with my solar system? Do I need a special generator to be able to hook it up to my current system? I have an outback 3000
inverter, 48v with ~1350kw of solar panels and 16 batteries.
3. Where to locate generator? Does a standalone generator need to be covered to protect it from the elements?
2. Who to install it once it is there? Anyone local who can assist me?
3. To buy in mexico or drive or ship it down? I would prefer not to have to drive it myself and am happy to ship it. I would buy it locally but are
they hard to find or are they marked up double where it makes more sense to ship it?
This thread helped answer who can ship it:
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=77564#pid9624...
4. If I buy in the U.S. where is a place I can order it and have it ship to the shipping company?
5. Would appreciate any recommendations on air conditioning solutions; are there units to cool whole house or best to have portable units for each
room. I prefer whole house.
Thanks to everyone for your help.
pacside
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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Look into getting a diesel generator, they are much more reliable, more economical, and have a much longer service life. The most important thing is
to match the generator with your anticipated loads, both for economy and efficiency. Diesel generators can have their life shortened by not having
enough load put on them. (wet stacking) I have used gas, propane, and diesel generators at our off-grid home just over the hill from you, and diesel
is by far the best option for off-grid,. Most of the Kohlers I've seen installed here are propane, and not very economical due to the high price of
propane. I use a 6 KW diesel generator that burns about a liter per hour under load. I would think that a 6-8 kw generator would be more than enough
for any energy efficient off grid house.Your Outback system will easily interface with a generator. Here's a link with some typical diesel setups: http://www.hardydiesel.com A good diesel generator can last for tens of thousands of hours.
As for AC units, look into mini-split types with inverter technology. They are much more efficient and do not have a high draw on startup.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Diesel, gasoline or propane??
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_generators
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
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Location: Pescadero BCS
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Solar panels are very cheap, and with the sun we have you might want to consider adding about another 800-1000 watts of panels to augment your system,
considering the number of batteries you have. I am assuming that you have 1350 watts of panels not 1350 KW.
[Edited on 3-12-2015 by monoloco]
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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monoloco
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Location: Pescadero BCS
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I wouldn't consider any of the portable type
diesel generators that they sell at northern tool, way better to get one with a water cooled Isuzu, Perkins, Kubota or another name brand, that's
designed for primary power. I'd stay away from Chinese knock-offs too.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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Something like this would give many years of reliable service:
http://www.hardydiesel.com/lister-petter-generators/lister-7...
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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BigWooo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 579
Registered: 1-2-2007
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You have a lot of questions you need to answer, but to start you should understand that there are "standby" generators and "continuous power"
generators. Standby generators are designed to be used only occasionally to run your home when the power goes out. Continuous run generators are
designed to be used constantly to provide power to your home.
Kohler and Generac 20KW propane generators are generally considered standby. They run at about 3600 rpm, use a lot of fuel, and are noisy. The
upside is they are relatively inexpensive. I have a Generac 14KW propane generator as backup to my solar. I certainly wouldn't buy it again. It
uses a lot of fuel and it's fairly noisy. I also wouldn't want to live next door to someone who planned to run it daily. Fortunately I rarely have to
use it. If you plan to run your home like you suggest you'll definitely need to install a 1000 liter propane tank with this type of generator.
Continuous run generators run around 1900 rpm, they're quieter, use less fuel and are designed to be run constantly. Down side is they are expensive.
I'd seriously research how much fuel each type/brand uses. If you buy the wrong power plant, it can be VERY expensive to run for what you plan to do.
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pacside
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 1-16-2006
Location: N. Cal
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Quote: Originally posted by monoloco  | Solar panels are very cheap, and with the sun we have you might want to consider adding about another 800-1000 watts of panels to augment your system,
considering the number of batteries you have. I am assuming that you have 1350 watts of panels not 1350 KW.
[Edited on 3-12-2015 by monoloco] |
Yes 1350w of panels. I could do this but doesn't matter how many panels you have if it is cloudy which is what I'm trying to solve. On sunny days my
solar is fine (except no air conditioning or washer/dryer).
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pacside
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 1-16-2006
Location: N. Cal
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Thanks monoloco for your feedback. Are the diesel generators the continuous operating ones mentioned by bigwoo?
Also thanks bigwoo.
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55steve
Senior Nomad
Posts: 857
Registered: 4-24-2006
Location: Warner Springs, CA
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For part time use I would consider a Honda EU7000is. They are a bit pricey but are super quiet & dependable. I power air conditioning in the
summer BoLA heat 24/7 with an EU3000is
http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu7000is
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pacside
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 1-16-2006
Location: N. Cal
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| Quote: Originally posted by monoloco | Look into getting a diesel generator, they are much more reliable, more economical, and have a much longer service life. The most important thing is
to match the generator with your anticipated loads, both for economy and efficiency. Diesel generators can have their life shortened by not having
enough load put on them. (wet stacking) I have used gas, propane, and diesel generators at our off-grid home just over the hill from you, and diesel
is by far the best option for off-grid,. Most of the Kohlers I've seen installed here are propane, and not very economical due to the high price of
propane. I use a 6 KW diesel generator that burns about a liter per hour under load. I would think that a 6-8 kw generator would be more than enough
for any energy efficient off grid house.Your Outback system will easily interface with a generator. Here's a link with some typical diesel setups: http://www.hardydiesel.com A good diesel generator can last for tens of thousands of hours.
As for AC units, look into mini-split types with inverter technology. They are much more efficient and do not have a high draw on startup.
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So glad I asked these questions. I think based on my needs the standby kohler's may not be the solution. I didn't realize they were for back up
occasional hours of use. In my case, I may need to use the generator for several hours at a time for multiple days in a row. Not all the time but high
impact times. Are they quiet enough to have near your home? Looking at the one you linked to. Thanks again for your feedback.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacside | | Quote: Originally posted by monoloco | Look into getting a diesel generator, they are much more reliable, more economical, and have a much longer service life. The most important thing is
to match the generator with your anticipated loads, both for economy and efficiency. Diesel generators can have their life shortened by not having
enough load put on them. (wet stacking) I have used gas, propane, and diesel generators at our off-grid home just over the hill from you, and diesel
is by far the best option for off-grid,. Most of the Kohlers I've seen installed here are propane, and not very economical due to the high price of
propane. I use a 6 KW diesel generator that burns about a liter per hour under load. I would think that a 6-8 kw generator would be more than enough
for any energy efficient off grid house.Your Outback system will easily interface with a generator. Here's a link with some typical diesel setups: http://www.hardydiesel.com A good diesel generator can last for tens of thousands of hours.
As for AC units, look into mini-split types with inverter technology. They are much more efficient and do not have a high draw on startup.
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So glad I asked these questions. I think based on my needs the standby kohler's may not be the solution. I didn't realize they were for back up
occasional hours of use. In my case, I may need to use the generator for several hours at a time for multiple days in a row. Not all the time but high
impact times. Are they quiet enough to have near your home? Looking at the one you linked to. Thanks again for your feedback. |
The quietest diesel generators have sound attenuating enclosures that get them dow to about 65db. I have a 30 year old air cooled
Onan that is very loud, so I built a generator shed with insulated doors and baffled vents, that get it down to an acceptable level. I believe that
most of the units on the Hardy site are rated for prime power (constant use). The nicest thing about diesel, is that you will never have to worry
about gunked up carburetors or other fuel issues if the generator sits without use for a period of time. Here's a link to another good site for info:
http://advanced-power-systems.com
[Edited on 3-12-2015 by monoloco]
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1495
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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I use a Kubota 6500 diesel and it is very reliable and economical. Interfaces with the Outback equipment very easily. Just run the gen AC output to
the inverters AC input, start the generator and the inverter will do the rest automatically. You'll need to set the generator parameters in the mate
so the inverter doesn't try to draw too much from the generator. Very easy to do with Outback stuff.
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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geezz....generators///
think NOISE..the manufacturers lie...you need to listen to one work
think FUEL use...$$$ per night...propane is cleaner but way more expensive...diesel stinks...unless the wind blows the other way
when its hot its easy to run the generator 18 hours...do the math at 4 bucks an hour $$$
think size...you need a rating double what you need to run it all
...but don't get too big...bigger is not better all the time
think REPAIR parts...can you get them here in Baja
mr bill once posted something that really made "cents"
he said if you do use a portable generator... no matter what size the unit generates you are limited to the size of the plug amperage and fuse...so a
15a plug limits you to about 1500w of power...even if the unit is a 7500watter
there are 2 generators...a 3600rpm and a 1800rpm
if you drive your car at 50mpg you are doing 1800rpm imagine if you were driving and doing 3600rpm...fast!!!
3600rpm units wear out twice as fast or faster
think about the GENERATOR part...not just the engine...how long will it last...it has to have 60hz and put out 110v to 120v all the time...under
load...the more load...voltage drops...the lower the voltage the hotter the electric appliance gets...too low and it fries stuff
if you want 220v be sure to buy a 2 wire 220v generator...most ac units use 2 wires...mine is a one wire 220v...mistake
last ...think NOISE!!!...I have neighbors 1/2 mile away and I hear their generator...horrible neighbors
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weebray
Super Nomad
Posts: 1094
Registered: 7-19-2010
Location: La Paz
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Mood: lleno
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I once built a 40hp vw engine for a guy to power a generator for his remote cabin in the Sierra. He dug about a 10' deep pit and put it in the
bottom. He installed a vertical plywood baffle to divide the pit in two. Intake/cooling air came down one side of the baffle and exhause/heat exited
the other side. The engine sipped fuel and could not be heard about 20 - 30 steps away. He used it daily and, since it ran at a constant speed,
lasted for years.
Every beautiful beach in the world needs a few condo towers - NOT.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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that probably only ran a generator to charge batteries...
you could never keep the voltage correct to power modern equipment
especially if you put a load on the vw engine
and a vw engine never got good gas mileage it just seemed like it when the big American gas hogs got 8 miles per gallon
as for in the ground...here on the beach it would collect water as soon as it rained and be under water all the time
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Mula
Super Nomad
Posts: 1655
Registered: 8-16-2011
Location: San Nicolas y Lopez Mateos
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And guests and renters (short termers, non owners) will always use all power available and then more.
Off the grid is impossible for vacationers to understand or care about.
They paid the money and they want it all.
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1495
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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I agree with Bob on this one. Having a generator for primary power does not make any sense. I use mine to charge batteries and if necessary to run an
AC unit at night. Other than that my solar system handles everything else, the welder, my metal lathe, table saw, and everything in the house
including micro wave and washer and gas dryer. With solar panels so cheap it doesn't make sense to depend on a generator that uses fuel and needs
repairs eventually.
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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pacside
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 1-16-2006
Location: N. Cal
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Really appreciate everyone's replies. You all get it; noise, short term vacationers 'needs', cost, etc.
95% of the time my current setup is sufficient but the 5% of the time when it isn't is unsustainable. So I need to fix it. I've been told various
things like don't increase solar for the 5% but just get a generator. But this solution doesn't seem to be so easy and clearcut. I wanted to stay away
from increasing solar capacity as I was put off when 4 of my 8 solar panels flew off my roof during hurricane Odile and when they don't work during
cloudy days and it still isn't sufficient for when vacationers who don't conserve energy.
Also didn't think I could increase panel capacity given my battery bank. Maybe folks can weigh in here.
Current setup is 8 panels at 135w/ea which is only 1080watts of panels. Battery pack consists of 16 Trojan 390Ah batteries with Outback 3000 inverter,
48v. Wondering if I add new panels if I have to add batteries.
Also, if anyone knows someone in the area I can hire to help me on this that would be much appreciated.
pacside
[Edited on 3-13-2015 by pacside]
[Edited on 3-13-2015 by pacside]
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Russ
Elite Nomad
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Location: Punta Chivato
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I think for 5% of the time you could get by just fine with a Honda 3000i.
You might have to only use one AC unit but it would keep your batteries charged if you run it thru your inverter. Anyway that is what I have and it
works well. With your setup you should still get enough solar in to charge on a mostly cloudy day if you conserve your usage. I set my input amps at
15 and can run on eco mode.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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