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4x4abc
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Arroyo Grande
so, we were told that you could not get out of Arroyo Grande going upstream.
Supposedly big boulders and too many trees and bushes around the abandoned Rancho Arroyo Grande.
What boulders and what bushes?
It was tight but a real pleasure to drive in the shade.
The only thing that slowed progress after leaving the arroyo was opening and closing gates. About 10 of them
[Edited on 4-9-2015 by 4x4abc]
[Edited on 4-9-2015 by 4x4abc]
[Edited on 4-9-2015 by 4x4abc]
Harald Pietschmann
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chuckie
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WOW! That's really cool..CUT someone elses locked gate? If that happened on my Ranch,someone would be in jail....And then to brag about it....????
What a low life....SHAME SHAME
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woody with a view
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^^^gotta agree^^^
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4x4abc
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well, Hombres, if you buy a property in Mexico and an established road runs through it, you can either parallel-fence the road (dividing your
property) - or put up gates (users open and close as needed). But by law you can not block access to that road.
[Edited on 4-9-2015 by 4x4abc]
[Edited on 4-9-2015 by 4x4abc]
Harald Pietschmann
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rts551
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Sounds like the "established road" is the new one you posted about. Baja has a lot of meandering desert roads and not all of them are considered
established. The Sierra San Pedro Martir area is a good example of an area where roads have been blocked off, legally.
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Archie
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You see that sign on the back?
Its for a project founded by the mexican govt. and the UNEP (UN environment Programme) to help ejidos, ranchers and land owners, like the ejido 16 de
septiembre to conserve, protect and improve ecosystem services in their land since 2013.
the national forestry comission pays the ejido an amount to do exactly the opposite of what you did: not opening new roads, close old roads, maintain
the vegetative coberture in the soil and prevent erosion. Every year they have to pass a on site verification of this subjects and other, including
monitoring wildlife.
Its severely penalized not doing what they've compromised to, resulting in their anual payment reduced or canceled.
One thing to note its that they are using game cameras on some spots for the wildlife monitoring, and I really hope they have one on the gate you
broke.
Can you refer which law is that you mention that the land owner cannot close roads?.
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Ken Cooke
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I say, keep Baja open to all! 
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PaulW
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If one of you have a GPS track please send it to me and I will try to figure out why we were in the wrong place to get thru the AG bushes and trees.
Thanks, PW
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woody with a view
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DK, is the map you are using the 2015 AAA, Baja Almanac or similar map?
[Edited on 4-9-2015 by woody with a view]
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rts551
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | | Quote: Originally posted by rts551 | | Sounds like the "established road" is the new one you posted about. Baja has a lot of meandering desert roads and not all of them are considered
established. The Sierra San Pedro Martir area is a good example of an area where roads have been blocked off, legally. |
It may not matter with you, but:
The road in Arroyo Grande is shown open the entire length on Mexican maps.
This was not in the San Pedro Martir, or any national forest. |
Please. What map are you talking about? There was a claim earlier about Mexican law, which is why I used the roads in the mountains as an example.
I thought you were all for property rights? Only in the USA?
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Bajaboy
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Again, it isn't hard, I was not there with Karl and Harald south of our hike area. If some land owner blocks an open public road, I do not care what
side of the border he is on.
Here is a map showing the entire Arroyo Grande road between the Pole Line Road and Hwy. 3 with an arrow showing where we parted with Harald and Karl,
at our camp:
[Edited on 4-9-2015 by David K] |
I'm sorry your honor, the map made me do it
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rts551
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Hmmm what happened to all the pictures? Second thoughts about what is legal?
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rts551
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David, If what you say is true, there would be more roads than property in Baja. Seems people make new roads all the time. Last night, I asked a
property attorney to look at the thread and photos. His message back to me was that ingress and egress to other properties is required for THOSE
property owners. nothing else unless Federal property such as the coastline or a federal park is involved. He gave examples where many properties
have been recently fenced off along hwy's 1 and 3. The Ejido land by Rancho Grande is almost entirely fenced off from the hwy now. His message to
me....get used to it..Baja is growing up. cutting a lock is property damage.
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rts551
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by rts551 | | Sounds like the "established road" is the new one you posted about. Baja has a lot of meandering desert roads and not all of them are considered
established. The Sierra San Pedro Martir area is a good example of an area where roads have been blocked off, legally. |
It may not matter with you, but:
The road in Arroyo Grande is shown open the entire length on Mexican maps.
This was not in the San Pedro Martir, or any national forest. |
Ruining this thread belongs to one person and one person only. It was always addressed and on topic to the OP until YOU addressed a post elsewhere.
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rts551
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Another example of locked gates is the coastline between Bahia Asuncion (SAn Roque) and Bahia Tortugas. Numerous access roads to the coastline gated
and locked by the Cooperativa. The one we got around on our quads got us an escort to the next gate by the Vigilancia.
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4x4abc
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I apologize guys - forgot my own doctrine to post sunsets and sunrises only.
And David, you might remove the part of your report where you bypassed a locked gate on PLR before rts551 finds it.
Harald Pietschmann
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rts551
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | I apologize guys - forgot my own doctrine to post sunsets and sunrises only.
And David, you might remove the part of your report where you bypassed a locked gate on PLR before rts551 finds it. |
But you were so proud of yourself for cutting the lock and thus destroying someone elses property. Got to admit, I have been around a few locked
gates (and sometimes caught). but never destroyed the lock, and certainly did not justify it based on we are only temporary on this planet. I am
somewhat surprised at a person who prides himself on off-road training programs to the State of California, FBI, etc. If I come cut the lock on your
door, Is it OK? how about I just drive across your front yard...I mean you are only there temporarily. 
[Edited on 4-9-2015 by rts551]
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DianaT
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | I apologize guys - forgot my own doctrine to post sunsets and sunrises only.
And David, you might remove the part of your report where you bypassed a locked gate on PLR before rts551 finds it. |
Don't apologize because someone isn't having a good time here, and if we didn't explore Old California by going around locked gates, (and not steeling
or damaging property), then we are a poorer people for what is not seen. The land is the land and it is forever... People can only claim it for a
short time because we are temporary on this planet. |
From what Archie reported, it seems that Baja is beginning to do what there are doing more of up where we live. More and more old dirt roads are
being blocked off and closed down so the vegetation can return ---- erosion problems, abuse of the areas, and preserving it for the future occupants
of this earth. While most of the roads being closed are ones that were carved out by off roaders, some of them are on maps.
That sounds like a good program for the environment and as a way for the ejido to earn some money. While I know that several organizations are
working on protecting lots of areas of Baja, I was not aware of this government program. Thanks Archie --- good information
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rts551
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | I apologize guys - forgot my own doctrine to post sunsets and sunrises only.
And David, you might remove the part of your report where you bypassed a locked gate on PLR before rts551 finds it. |
Don't apologize because someone isn't having a good time here, and if we didn't explore Old California by going around locked gates, (and not steeling
or damaging property), then we are a poorer people for what is not seen. The land is the land and it is forever... People can only claim it for a
short time because we are temporary on this planet. |
Looks like your posts are temporary as well. Why throw them out there and then delete them. People will still know you took this thread off-topic.
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woody with a view
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No one is unhappy you found a shady road in the desert. That's cool. How is the guy who finds his chain sawed open going to feel? All the banter about
maps showing a road is a deflectionary response to the turd in the punchbowl. You should have never said anything about cutting a chain. Showing a
sawzall was another bad decision.
But then again, who cares? You guys have maps on your side!
The rest of the trip looks awesome tho......
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