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Ateo
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Same Sex Marriage Now Legal in Mexico and USA
Mexico News:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/15/world/americas/with-little...
MEXICO CITY — His church turned him away, his family discouraged him from a public fight and the government of the state where he lives vowed it would
never happen.
But it did. Hiram Gonzalez married his boyfriend, Severiano Chavez, last year in the northern state of Chihuahua, which, like most Mexican states,
technically allows marriage only between a man and a woman.
Mr. Gonzalez and dozens of other gay couples in recent months have, however, found a powerful ally: Mexico’s Supreme Court.
In ruling after ruling, the court has said that state laws restricting marriage to heterosexuals are discriminatory. Though the decisions have been
made to little public fanfare, they have had the effect of legalizing gay marriage in Mexico without enshrining it in law.
USA NEWS:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/us/supreme-court-same-sex-...
WASHINGTON — In a long-sought victory for the gay rights movement, the Supreme Court ruled on Friday that the Constitution guarantees a nationwide
right to same-sex marriage.
Justice Anthony M. Kennedy wrote the majority opinion in the 5 to 4 decision. He was joined by the court’s four more liberal justices.
The decision, the culmination of decades of litigation and activism, came against the backdrop of fast-moving changes in public opinion, with polls
indicating that most Americans now approve of same-sex marriage.
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vgabndo
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It seems to me that Mexico, unlike the USA, clearly shows respect for the legal separation of church and state. This should help the people get a fair
shake under the law. The level of entanglement between the supposedly secular US government and the government supported (tax free) churches makes
that a lot harder here in "one nation under God". Today's ruling has many of my friends and loved ones absolutely giddy with joy. It has been sweet to
watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYHuF9tIbpQ
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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bajabuddha
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You shoulda been raised in Utah-hah-hah-hah! The original Constitutional ideals of separation BETWEEN Church and State (both notarized with Capital
letters) goes sooooo deep into State histories (plural) in the United States even before the Civil War is worth hours, days, and years of discussion.
Mr. J. Smith was assassinated while his entourage (of personal bodyguards) were in Washington DC preparing his entrance to the City to (as The Donald
just did) prepare his hat-throwing into the ring for Presidency under a THEOCRATIC nomination.
thank goodness, (not your god or mine or Perry's Not god, which I also totally accept) that freedom OF religion(s) is also freedom FROM religion(s))
THEOCRACY = Sharia = KKK = DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS = PEOPLE'S TEMPLE (Jim Jones) = TERRY JONES (burn the kuran) = ISIS(IS, ISIS, Al Queda, et al.)
Final statement to all who oppose:
Name one way, any way...... how can it possibly hurt you in any way, shape, or form? I've never yet heard one substantial answer to this, other
than....... "it can bring down our society!!" Your society, like Sarah P's daughter with her 2nd illegitimate child? Hypocrisy missed the top 7
but is truly the 8th one.
I see a common bond of legal and spiritual bonding, even though it maybe ain't yours. NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Legal is legal, for Power of Attorney
or any other SECULAR business.
Spiritually, it's your business and no others. If it's your church, don't marry nobody. If it's MY church, you can be sure nobody who doesn't like
Monday Night Football WILL NOT be married on the SABBATH !!!!!!!!!! That's MY choice protected by MY religion. If you like Bastaball more than I
do, FINE. Your freedoms stop on the end of my nose. Anyone, I challenge, how can gay marriage possibly upset your freedoms? Aside from quoting the
Great Storybook, and the religious nah-nee-nah-nah's, how does it hurt YOU?
SCOTUS got it right, with the one CONSERVATIVE VOTER MAJORITY hit it on the head.
Let's move on.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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4Cata
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If you have a chance, and you should be able to find Justice Kennedy's eloquent summary online or on the news or in the paper, read it. It was on
Facebook today several times and it deserves framing. If I were better at the computer I would try to find it, copy and paste it but I'm not even
sure that works here. I certainly can't seem to be able to post photos.
Agaveros, silk in a bottle, a beautiful bottle!
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vgabndo
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Quote: Originally posted by 4Cata  | | If you have a chance, and you should be able to find Justice Kennedy's eloquent summary online or on the news or in the paper, read it. It was on
Facebook today several times and it deserves framing. If I were better at the computer I would try to find it, copy and paste it but I'm not even
sure that works here. I certainly can't seem to be able to post photos. |
Copy and paste...this is the
concluding paragraph...
No union is more profound than marriage, for it embodies the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice, and family. In forming a marital
union, two people become something greater than once they were. As some of the petitioners in these cases demonstrate, marriage embodies a love that
may endure even past death. It would misunderstand these men and women to say they disrespect the idea of marriage. Their plea is that they do respect
it, respect it so deeply that they seek to find its fulfillment for themselves. Their hope is not to be condemned to live in loneliness, excluded from
one of civilization’s oldest institutions. They ask for equal dignity in the eyes of the law. The Constitution grants them that right.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Ateo
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And here's the fancy version floating around the Internet.
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redhilltown
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And thank goodness!!! According to Pat Robertson and others, now all those stray dogs we all worry about in Baja will finally have a chance for a
partner! Or two! Or three!! There is no stopping this now that marriage has been re-defined by the courts of Mexico and the United States! 
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chuckie
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I have had three same sex marriages....all to the same sex, women....
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Ateo
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http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/gay-rights-an...
The Fruit Loop. That’s what we cyclists called the circuit training ride we did each week through Los Angeles’ Griffith Park in the 1980s, and it
wasn’t a nod to the breakfast cereal. The huge park afforded privacy for gays to meet and hang out during a time when even in a liberal metropolis
like L.A. it was unacceptable for same-sex couples to publicly express their affections. The ribald expression, and my own unthinking use of it among
the guys in the peloton, is now a distant and embarrassing blot on my consciousness which, along with that of most Americans, has been expanded over
the decades by civil rights activists to include members of the LGBT community as deserving of the same rights as everyone else.
The 5-4 decision by the Supreme Court of the United States to make same-sex marriage the law of the land is another data point in the long-term trend
toward granting more rights to more people in more places around the world. There are pockets of rights deprivation to be sure, and much work left to
do, but the overall movement is in the right direction.
This trend is what Dr. King meant by describing the rights revolution he helped to lead a “moral arc” that bends toward justice, and why I chose to
title my latest book The Moral Arc, because history really has progressed since the invention of rights during the Enlightenment in the late 18th
century. As Coretta Scott King, hero of the gay rights movement and wife of Martin Luther King Jr. said in March 1998:
I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice. But
I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, ‘Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.’ I appeal to everyone who believes in
Martin Luther King Jr.’s dream to make room at the table of brother and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people.
Same-sex marriage and gay rights in general are themselves the legacy of the rights revolutions that took off in the late 1700s when the idea of
rights was invented and then demanded, first in the American Revolution (starting with the Declaration of Independence) and then in the French
Revolution (with the Rights of Man). The result, in the long run, was the abolition of slavery, the eradication of torture, the elimination of the
death penalty in all modern democracies (save America), the right to vote for African Americans, the right to vote for female Americans, children’s
rights, women’s rights—and now gay rights.
Never in history have so many people enjoyed so many freedoms.
For the gay community the SCOTUS decision marks an especially stunning turn from 55 years ago (1960) when all homosexual acts in the United States
were illegal. Illinois took a first bold step in decriminalizing sodomy in 1961, but at the time homosexuality was considered to be a perversion—even
a mental illness—and if police caught a man engaged in “lewd” behavior his name, age and even home address could be published in the local newspaper
(like pedophiles today). Bars and clubs where gays and lesbians were known to hang out were frequently raided; the police would barge in, the music
would stop, the lights would go up, IDs would be checked and men who were suspected of masquerading as women could be taken into the washrooms by
female officers and checked. New York’s penal code stated that people had to wear at least three pieces of clothing befitting their gender, or face
arrest.
Then came the Stonewall riots, the legendary flashpoint that for many marks the true beginning of the gay rights movement. The Stonewall Inn was a
grotty, mafia-owned gay bar on Christopher Street in Greenwich Village in New York City. On the night of June 28, 1969, several police officers
descended on the inn to conduct a raid in the customary manner, but this time the patrons fought back. They stood their ground and refused to
cooperate, becoming increasingly rowdy and taunting the officers with openly affectionate behavior and a chorus line of drag queens. It wasn’t long
before a sympathetic crowd joined Stonewall patrons and, as the story goes, after one woman was dragged out in handcuffs and struck over the head with
a billy club, the gathering erupted in anger.
A year after the uprising, on June 28, 1970, participants marched in the first gay pride parade on a route that went from the Stonewall Inn to Central
Park; they were joined by supporters marching in Chicago, San Francisco and Los Angeles. Another big step came in 1973 when the American Psychiatric
Association declassified homosexuality as a mental illness. Officially acknowledging that gays and lesbians aren’t actually insane was a necessary
first step in changing attitudes toward them, and attitudes most certainly have changed. In many parts of the world, homophobia is coming to be
regarded as offensive as racism.
Other arenas also saw positive changes for LGBT citizens—including for personnel in the U.S. military. “Don’t ask, don’t tell” was the official policy
of the U.S. government from 1994 until 2011, allowing closeted gay, lesbian and bisexual personnel to serve, but only under the constant threat of
immediate expulsion if they accidentally slipped up and revealed their true identities. That’s right, gays had to right to go overseas and shoot
people in the name of defending freedom, but they were not free to be openly gay. That changed on December 22, 2010 when President Barack Obama signed
legislation that repealed the policy. Soon after, while campaigning for re-election, the president announced that his attitudes toward gay marriage
were “evolving” and he was now in favor.
As with most rights revolutions, this one has been led by younger and less religious people. A 2013 survey conducted by the Pew Research Center’s
Forum on Religion and Public Life for example, found the percentage of those who favor same-sex marriage was highest among millennials (those born
after 1981) and the religiously unaffiliated, and lowest among older Americans and white evangelical Protestants.
To be blunt, it is religion more than anything else that has driven people to harden their hearts, especially toward people of a different race or
sexual orientation. Recall the now-shocking words of the trial judge Leon M. Bazile who convicted Richard and Mildred Loving in the case (Loving v.
Virginia) that ultimately made its way to the Supreme Court in 1967 and overturned laws banning interracial marriage: “Almighty God created the races
white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for
the races to mix.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/gay-rights-an...
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bajabuddha
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Right now the 'pain' of the religious right is acute and there will be a lot of howling and backlash, same as the 'strange fruit' of the mid-20th
century with the Negro vote being legalized, etc. Ten years from now it'll still be contentious, just like the current pervasive redneck-ism going
on in South Carolina and surrounding areas; ignorance never dies, it breeds.
However, I challenge anyone in America to tell me how, if an LGBT couple get married for legal rights reasons as well as their commitment to each
other, how it affects their own marriage in any derogatory way whatsoever. Tell me how it hurts your own 'traditional' marriage personally. Tell me
what harm it caused you in any way, shape or form. I'm not talking about how it offends you, or defies your religious or spiritual beliefs, but what
it does to you personally in the way of harm IN ANY WAY.
My Poli-Sci teacher in college taught us that "Freedom is the right to swing your arms any way you want to. Regardless of how different you swing
your arms compared to how I swing mine, you have that inalienable right to do so. However, your freedoms stop.... on the end of MY NOSE." Well put
analogy.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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MrBillM
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Queer Couplings
The argument could be extended to ALL Bestiality laws.
WHY should (Arabs, among others) be penalized for their private interactions with consenting Goats ?
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Lee
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| Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM | The argument could be extended to ALL Bestiality laws.
WHY should (Arabs, among others) be penalized for their private interactions with consenting Goats ? |
The only argument is in your head, Bill, oh, and the religious right. So, are you part of that ilk? Try to be honest.
Personally, middle easterners should NOT be penalized for their relationships with their pets. Is that a problem?
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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wessongroup
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Have to agree with Ateo ... as growing up in the 40's and 50's was a different place .. as it related to religion and what was correct
People were actually "judged" by some communities, if they did not attend "Church" on Sunday's ... and the "right" Church was something else again
As a old guy, and now looking back, It was something we® of our generation effected through: music, politics and social life style of the 50s and 60s
... Protesting became really big in the 60s
Find it strange that being supportive of all of those changes has resulted in my "classification" today as a "regressive" due to my age and skin color
a bit disappointing, as I still support: Civil Rights for All, Social Programs to help those in need, Legal immigration of all into the United States,
Public Education for ALL citizens ... through College, Laws and regulations to protect Health and the Environment and Laws and regulations to govern
the "Financial Industry" ...
Was never "into" organized religion ... found the Ten Commandments a good enough set of moral "Guidelines" ... regardless of their source ... without
out the need for interpretation from religious "leaders" of organized religions ...
Even Ben Bernanke stated there was a "Moral Hazard" within the Financial Industry which of course has significant implications to society and/or the
Planet which we exist in and/or on
Will say I'm pleased that the Pope has put our current "life style" into a moral context ... certainly can't hurt IMHO .. regardless of your beliefs
Have fun youngsters ... I've been through the "drill" now it's your turn 
[Edited on 7-1-2015 by wessongroup]
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grizzlyfsh95
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM | The argument could be extended to ALL Bestiality laws.
WHY should (Arabs, among others) be penalized for their private interactions with consenting Goats ? |
The only argument is in your head, Bill, oh, and the religious right. So, are you part of that ilk? Try to be honest.
Personally, middle easterners should NOT be penalized for their relationships with their pets. Is that a problem? |
What is in your head Bill. You know that only one point of view is acceptable here.
The harder I work, the luckier I get
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SFandH
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Re: the recent SCOTUS ruling, GOOD! One more major area of what was unnecessary legal discrimination outlawed. That's what it was all about.
[Edited on 7-1-2015 by SFandH]
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Kgryfon
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Well, I supposed that as soon as you find a non-human that has the intelligence required for consent, the ability to communicate that consent, and the
loving desire to be in a relationship with you, then you should, in fact, start petitioning for them to have the same right to marriage as any other
intelligent being. Why not? Haven't you ever watched Star Wars?
Otherwise, comparing the marriage of two intelligent human beings to each other, as equal to the marriage of a sheep (or whatever) and a person is
ridiculous. But you knew that already. Get a better argument; this one was lame the first time it was spouted and has just gotten silly since then.
Ah, you can't, can you?
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redhilltown
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Bill just loves trolling these posts... A grumpy old fart that relishes getting a rise out of people by saying stupid crap.
But with those six pack abs of his and those bulging biceps, he does indeed need to distance himself from the gays lest they mistake him for a pumped
up Arabian goat.
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Kgryfon
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| Quote: Originally posted by redhilltown | Bill just loves trolling these posts... A grumpy old fart that relishes getting a rise out of people by saying stupid crap.
But with those six pack abs of his and those bulging biceps, he does indeed need to distance himself from the gays lest they mistake him for a pumped
up Arabian goat. |
Tee hee! 
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dtbushpilot
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I don't know why the government needs to be in the marriage business in the first place. Why should I have to get written permission from the
government to marry the girl of my dreams, the guy next door or my yellow lab?
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by dtbushpilot | | I don't know why the government needs to be in the marriage business in the first place. Why should I have to get written permission from the
government to marry the girl of my dreams, the guy next door or my yellow lab? |
True. That's Rand Paul's position.
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