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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8940
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Its Pole Line Road time
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Rate your Baja tires: Silt - Sand - Wet Sand - Washboard - Ruts - Slickrock/Granite - Soft Dirt - Cambered dropoffs - Gravel-covered dirt
My Jeep Rubicon has was purchased in Sept. 2003 as a reliable means of transportation and for exploration into the Baja backcountry. Tire play a
challenging role in Baja.
First, for the drive to/from Baja, it must provide safe, predictable handling on the hwy. No wandering or blowouts
Second, the tread needs to provide miles of usage for multiple Baja seasons - not just one. Chunking and cuts make for balancing problems and could
possibly lead to a blowout if enough of the carcass is exposed due to tread coming off of the tire.
Third, the sidewall will need to hold up to trail hazards. Nobody likes packing two spares.
Trail Hazards:
Silt - Sand - Wet Sand - Washboard - Ruts - Slickrock/Granite - Soft Dirt - Cambered dropoffs - Gravel-covered dirt all must be managed in order that
said vehicle can return to Hwy 1 before fuel/supplies are depleted.
Nomads all have a favorite Baja tire - my two favorites include one Baja standard, and one with schizophrenic qualities. The BFGoodrich KM2 and the
Interco TSL-SX.
The BFG KM2 provides confidence-inspiring control over above trail hazards. The sidewalls are adequate for the kinds of encounters a Baja driver can
expect while driving along unimproved trails in the Baja back country. The plus, is the tire provides long-lasting usage when balanced regularly.
The Interco TSL-SX provides bombproof sidewalls, bulldozer traction over most trail hazards (the downside being sand-unless aired down to 10 psi or
lower), and a sticky tread compound that grips on rocks and chews through mud. The downside to these tires is they tend to wander when new, their
stickiness can lead to unpredictable wet pavement cornering, and fast tread wear.
How would you rate your favorite Baja tires?
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bacquito
Super Nomad
Posts: 1615
Registered: 3-6-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: jubilado
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Thanks for the information, I am thinking of buying tires in the near future.
bacquito
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PaulW
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3059
Registered: 5-21-2013
Member Is Offline
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In Baja tires are the biggest cause of Baja trauma. We have a pretty big Jeep club in San Felipe and the most common tires are BFG TA, KM2 and some
other variants from BFG, Goodyear MTR non kevlar. Most rigs have tires at the low cost end. The latest BFG offerings have improved sidewalls and
cost more which is probably why we see mostly TAs.
OK for my experience
First set on the Jeep LJ were 12.5-15 MTR non kevlar. A darn good tire. Good on rocks and good in sand with low pressure. lasted 30k. Now it has
gifted BFG KM2s (Krawler tread) Better rock traction and similar sand compared to the MTRs.
Niether not so great on snow & ice.
The desert Bronco has BFG Bajas because they were free. Tire has the mud tread on my 12.5x15 size. Excellent on rocks and in the sand 4wd is needed
due to little sidewall flex Sidewalls are not radial but are 9? deg angle. All my failures have been sticks thru the sidewall. I drive a lot in Baja
off track so all my tires have cactus in the sidewall and are full of plugs. Any tire on this rig would behave the same. Never have worn out any
Bajas. Just replace then when I ruin them. This Bronco lives in Baja and only sees rock and sand.
My 72 Bronco has gifted 13.5x15 BFG Krawlers and have yet to be tested. I expect good results when it hits the trail.
My F350 has gifted BFG TAs and they work fine in Baja. Not a real tough tire so I drive accordingly. No rock experience, just sand and highway. There
are probably a better choice for this rig.
The Broncos are not daily drivers and are purpose built for off road. The Jeep is a great crossover. Pulls a small trailer on the highway and works
great off road.
Advice choose tires for the proper application.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64743
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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What I am running now (my second time with this tire) is my favorite, so far.
I have run (on my three 4WD Tacomas):
BFG Rugged Trail T/A (stock tire)...... 2000-2003, 2005, 2009-2010
Pep Boys/ Cooper Definity Dakota A/T.. 2003-2005, 2012-2014
Cooper Discoverer STT ................ 2006-2008
Toyo Open Country A/T ............... 2008-2009
Cooper Discoverer ATR ................ 2009
Hankook Dynapro ATM ................ 2011-2012, 2015+
BFG Rugged Trails
Definity Dakota
Cooper Discoverer STT
Hankook Dynapro
The Hankook tire is an inexpensive all terrain tire that is quiet on the highway (where 95% of the tire is used) yet provides excellent traction in
mud, snow and floats well on sand with minimal deflation necessary.
================================================================
RATING:
BFG Rugged Trail T/A (stock tire)...... [BFG]
Pep Boys/ Cooper Definity Dakota A/T.. [DAT]
Cooper Discoverer STT ................ [STT]
Toyo Open Country A/T ............... [TAT]
Cooper Discoverer ATR ................ [ATR]
Hankook Dynapro ATM ................ [ATM]
Rating (of the above models): BFG .... STT ..... ATM ..... DAT ..... TAT.... ATR
Tire wear (miles).................... D ........ A ......... C ......... D ......... B ...... B
Highway Quiet....................... A ......... F ......... A ......... A ......... A ...... A
Sand Floatation...................... B ......... F ......... A ......... B ......... B ...... B
Mud & Snow ......................... D ......... A ......... A ......... B ......... C ...... C
Flat Resistance ...................... F ......... A ......... B ......... D ......... A ...... A
Off Road Looks ...................... C ......... A ......... B ......... B ......... C ...... C
I have no complaints with the Toyo and Cooper ATR.
The BFGs were just mediocre tires with frequent flats (hence their nickname "Rugged Fail").
The Cooper STT we renamed "Grave Diggers" because of how poorly they did in sand, and required the most air removed to have any floatation whatsoever.
They did look great and would outperform in the mud, like on Laguna Salada when wet!
The Pep Boy Dakotas (made by Cooper) was acceptable, but didn't deliver good wear over the miles... flats were possible, and so they are similar in
looks and life to the BFGs.
The Hankook Dynapro ATM really shined off road, in the sand, and quiet driving... and are inexpensive. The only lower marks came from lower wear miles
than others and I did get a couple flats on them.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64743
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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How about some more feedback for Ken?
Do the rest of you only run BFG All Terrain T/As which is Baja drivers most popular tire...?
Who is old enough to recall THE 4WD tire of the 1970's?
I remember the thrill when I went to Dick Cepek and replaced the Goodyear tires on my Jeep with Armstrong TruTracs...
Finding photos of them online is not easy!
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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I still have an old Tru-trac around here somewhere. They were great in the sand because they bias ply. load range B, 4 ply rated, they gave you
great flotation on a jeep.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Hey thanks for all the work ... you guys know your tires and keep records too .. WOW
[Edited on 11-16-2015 by wessongroup]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64743
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Armstrong made three tires that really had an impact on Baja travel...
1) The Hi-Way Floatation (original sand tire for most of us).
2) The TruTrac (first all terrain tire for many).
3) The Norseman (another all terrain that would go living on as Dick Cepek's Fun Country tire).
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Whale-ista
Super Nomad
Posts: 2009
Registered: 2-18-2013
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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Timely conversation. I just bought new shoes for my truck- a set of the newly designed BFG AT/TA K02. Got them at Discount Tires- BFG is offering a
$50 rebate this month.
Completely different look from the previous design- these make my little truck look like it's ready to rumble. Beefy shoulders, deeper tread with
interesting design and rubber technology, supposedly to shed mud more efficiently.
A bit pricey, but I bought the truck exclusively for trips to Baja, Death Valley, local mountains, and other fun escapes. Most of the time it sits in
front of the house (I have a hybrid for daily driver). But I am doing frequent trips to Palomar Mountain this fall, and the steep road will soon be
steep and muddy, so it was time. (I could feel the truck slipping on some of the steeper/washboard areas.)
When I bought the truck in 2013 it came with a set of BFG-ATs that never failed, despite rocks, sand, and (very little) mud -thanks drought!
One concern: I only got about 30,000 miles out of the previous set that came with the truck. Is this common? What mileage have others had from these
tires?
Perhaps it's low because most of these miles were on Baja highway/off-roads, carrying a Callen shell, packed with a few days to a few weeks of camping
equipment.
As for Dave K's memories of ORV tires from the 70s- My first car was a VW "Baja Bug": '68 Beetle frame with front trunk cover & metal fenders
removed & replaced w/fiberglass- allowing oversized tires front and back. I don't recall the exact tires but both Armstrong and Norseman sound
familiar.
It had carriers for the old metal 5-gal. fuel containers mounted on both sides, behind the doors. The uncovered 1600 CC engine had a tuned exhaust
system and steel cage in the back. The transaxle was from a VW van for lower gear ratios and was heavier duty (or so I was told) vs stock Beetle.
I drove it from 1975- 1980 and replaced many parts over the years, from fuel tank to engine. Fun car for a teenager/college student to drive.
"Upgraded" to a '71 Westie a few years later and took that to Baja many, many times.
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8940
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Its Pole Line Road time
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The tire with the greatest number of flats on the Pole Line Road is the BFG All Terrain KO. It is also the most popular tire run on the Pole Line
Road. I experienced a complete sidewall (shredding) failure - in Joshua Tree while driving at a high rate of speed along Gold Crown Road of an AT/KO
and also a BFG KM. When buying my latest set of BFG KM2s, I paid an extra $111 for a full replacement warranty at America's Tire.
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Whale-ista
Super Nomad
Posts: 2009
Registered: 2-18-2013
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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Interesting. Could it be it has the most failures because it's also the most commonly used tire? Or- Maybe that's why the new design is reinforced on
the sidewall?
I also have lifetime free repairs/full replacement (not pro-rated), assuming I can limp back home on the spare to use the service.
Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke  | | The tire with the greatest number of flats on the Pole Line Road is the BFG All Terrain KO. It is also the most popular tire run on the Pole Line
Road. I experienced a complete sidewall (shredding) failure - in Joshua Tree while driving at a high rate of speed along Gold Crown Road of an AT/KO
and also a BFG KM. When buying my latest set of BFG KM2s, I paid an extra $111 for a full replacement warranty at America's Tire.
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\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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I did not get the replacement insurance because most of my time is spent in Baja. Would have to go back to the states to get my "free" tire.
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ursidae69
Nomad
Posts: 275
Registered: 2-22-2004
Location: Youngsville, NM
Member Is Offline
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I run BFG KM2s, 255-85 R16 on my 2004 Tacoma
Tire wear (miles) -- C
Highway Quiet -- D
Sand Flotation -- A (when aired down)
Mud & Snow -- A
Flat Resistance -- B
Off Road Looks -- A
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PaulW
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3059
Registered: 5-21-2013
Member Is Offline
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Same experience. The San Felipe jeepers go cheap and buy BFG ATs. Yes KM2s are stronger and have the associated added cost. Now days there are more
BFG variants with added cost and only slight strength improvements.
BTW, the biggest reason for the Jeepers tire failures is extremely old rotten tires.
======
| Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke | | The tire with the greatest number of flats on the Pole Line Road is the BFG All Terrain KO. It is also the most popular tire run on the Pole Line
Road. I experienced a complete sidewall (shredding) failure - in Joshua Tree while driving at a high rate of speed along Gold Crown Road of an AT/KO
and also a BFG KM. When buying my latest set of BFG KM2s, I paid an extra $111 for a full replacement warranty at America's Tire.
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PaulW
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3059
Registered: 5-21-2013
Member Is Offline
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Good choice for a 33" off road tire
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| Quote: Originally posted by ursidae69 | I run BFG KM2s, 255-85 R16 on my 2004 Tacoma
Tire wear (miles) -- C
Highway Quiet -- D
Sand Flotation -- A (when aired down)
Mud & Snow -- A
Flat Resistance -- B
Off Road Looks -- A
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline
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Since 1993 I have used BFG TA KO tires with good success. I've had two flats due to rocks thru the tread and one with a nail in the sidewall.
I could not wait for the KO2 so I purchased a set of Pro Comp Xtreme A/T tires from 4 Wheel Parts. Off road they seem to be really good in rocks and
sand and they've been to some pretty nasty places. They are louder on the hwy than a BFG KO. They come with a 50,000 mile warranty so we'll see how
the tread holds up.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18111
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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New tires resist puncture better than old tires. I find all the AT tires to be similar. But after 35k miles, they all have thinner tread and get
flats.
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norte
Super Nomad
Posts: 1163
Registered: 10-8-2008
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | New tires resist puncture better than old tires. I find all the AT tires to be similar. But after 35k miles, they all have thinner tread and get
flats. |
Genius. How about 50 pictures to illustrate that....please include a selfie and follow the rules now. I find that all tires get thinner tread after
a while.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18111
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by norte | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | New tires resist puncture better than old tires. I find all the AT tires to be similar. But after 35k miles, they all have thinner tread and get
flats. |
Genius. How about 50 pictures to illustrate that....please include a selfie and follow the rules now. I find that all tires get thinner tread after
a while. |
I should add that when I shop for tires I always get the black ones. They must be popular, as I see the shops rarely stock the other colors
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BooJumMan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 891
Registered: 8-11-2007
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
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I've been running the Toyo Open Country MT's (315/75r16) for only a year now but I really like them. I do not worry about the possibility of a
puncture, although it could happen I'm sure. Run on my 97 Land Cruiser.
Pros: Great traction in mud, sand, rock and pavement. Relatively not aggressive for an MT
Cons: Very heavy and stiff. Heard they aren't good in snow, but I've probably seen the snow less than 5 times in my life. Priced higher than any other
tire I've seen. :/
Past tires that I've run and liked in Baja:
BFG KO AT (265/75r16, 285/75r16, 315/75r16)
BFG KM MT (285/75r16, 315/75r16)
Goodyear MTR (315/75r16)
Nitto Terra Grappler (285/75r16)
I've recently left BFG's only because their sizing runs so small. They 315/75r16's look more like a 33 than a true 35" tire. But I do like the BFGs in
general.
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