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CaboSur
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Registered: 9-10-2014
Location: San Jose del Cabo
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Extranjeros in trouble with immigration in Todos santos
Uh oh , us foreigners shall not protest
Copied from Colectivo Pericu
For umpteenth occasion, an investment project has turned out to be pressed for groups of persons who are opposed to the economic development of the
state where invariably they have seen "peros" in the economic proposals and that have generated, certainly, suspense to invest in South Baja
California. <br> <br> The case of Three Saints is the new goal of the opposing groups to the investment and where the matter has returned,
somehow, in international attention since several North American citizens have turned out to be wrapped in the "peros" of these groups that they want
to sabotage at all costs, without understanding reason, any attempt of investment in the area of All Saints.<br> <br> The case of the
North American Peter Buck, musician of profession already withdrawn in the town of All Saints, together with other compatriots, they have taken part
in the declarations of the opposing groups to the real estate development with thelogical reaction of the federal authorities who think that the
foreigners, in accordance with the national laws, must not interfere in the national politics. Peter Buck called the Mexican politicians "corrupt" for
what might apply to the musician to those who turn out to be responsible, the Article 33. In accordance with local journalistic versions, so much the
musician in retirement and a city dweller of name Jamie Ivee Sechrist-Madrazo already left Mexico before the fear of being sanctioned by the
authorities of migration.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
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Lesson here. Be careful how you involve yourself in local politics (even if you think you are right).
There has been a group of people, Many whom are from Canada or the USA, that have been protesting the development, Tres Santos, for a while now.
This has involved protest marches, fund raisers, and as explained in the article, ultimately a statement by Peter Buck and a Todos Santos Concert.
Now there is Hacienda and INM roaming through the town asking questions. Wonder how many people do not have proper immigration and work
documentation.
Ultimately, Peter Buck left town in a hurry when the INM was looking for him, and a female activist fled to Colorado when she heard the police were
looking for her.
Be careful when you are a guest in Mexico. The government official is always right.
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bajabuddha
Banned
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Location: Baja New Mexico
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Mood: Always cranky unless medicated
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Jeez, I've met dozens of semi-well-to-do Norte Americanos who move to Baja, buy into a Gringolandia, and think since they live there they can change
the place into a little replica of whence they came. They also usually carry the idea that if the locals are getting U.S. dollars, they should speak
English too.
The term 'Kalifornication' is pretty universal all over almost every western State I've been in..... and involves politics especially. Live somewhere
for 6 months, get involved in local politics, and try to change the status quo into again a version of where they just escaped from, and usually
entails the instigator in some kind of wealth scheme, or a 'Ban Walmart' - type referendum. It's a never-ending cycle; in this case, I'm tickled to
see 'em run with their tails between their legs. In the States it's legal, just a pain in the patootie.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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David K
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Location: San Diego County
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I could never understand why you come to a different place because you like it.... and then try to change it to be like the place you left!!??
BIZARRO!
Not just rich gringos, but Muslims too! It's happening now all over Europe and America.
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DianaT
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This particular issue has many sides to it and the only support or protest should be from the Mexican citizens and they seem rather divided over the
situation.
There appeared to be a fair amount of "I have mine now, so don't mess it up" from the gringos involved. But as I said, it is multisided from an
environmental standpoint.
The gringos were warned over and over that protesting could lead to problems. And they simply wanted to label the people who warned them as defenders
of the development which was not the case. Mostly they were protesting the development, but didn't seem to want to understand that when it has to do
with development, it has to do with politics. And referring to the government officials as corrupt does not sit well with those officials who have
all the power.
As lencho said, right or wrong doesn't matter.
DK-- nice troll, but really not relevant. 
[Edited on 1-31-2016 by DianaT]
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bajaguy
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Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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You may not like what is going on, however we are visitors in another country. If you are not a citizen, keep your mouth shut or suffer the
consequences. Go back to the States or Canada and protest all you want
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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You guys are as clueless as the opportunists scamming residents of Todos. Colorado money and greedy mexicans are selling a pipe dream to tourists.
This area doesn't have the infrastructure to support anything close to what is being marketed.
What hasn't made the news lately is the pangueros have closed things down. A road block to the site for months keeps builders out for the moment.
Developers have ruined the south end of Punta Lobos for fishermen and tourists.
Anyone else just drive down to the beach (non-workers allowed in) and see the blight. It really is a shame what money and corruption can do.
If you don't live here and see what's happening, you don't know.
Yeah, the government official is (always) right -- even when he's corrupt. Typical stuff: silence protest and objections to corruption. Just
another day in paradise for the rest of you.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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pacificobob
Super Nomad
Posts: 2334
Registered: 4-23-2006
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Quote: Originally posted by Lee  | You guys are as clueless as the opportunists scamming residents of Todos. Colorado money and greedy mexicans are selling a pipe dream to tourists.
This area doesn't have the infrastructure to support anything close to what is being marketed.
What hasn't made the news lately is the pangueros have closed things down. A road block to the site for months keeps builders out for the moment.
Developers have ruined the south end of Punta Lobos for fishermen and tourists.
Anyone else just drive down to the beach (non-workers allowed in) and see the blight. It really is a shame what money and corruption can do.
If you don't live here and see what's happening, you don't know.
Yeah, the government official is (always) right -- even when he's corrupt. Typical stuff: silence protest and objections to corruption. Just
another day in paradise for the rest of you.
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spot on lee
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
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Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Spread the word
Here is your chance
The Denver Post newsroom - Email newsroom@denverpost.com or call 303-954-1201.
Boulder Daily Camera - http://pmpfb.com/machform/view.php?id=23
Denver NBC - newstips@9news.com
Denver ABC - http://www.thedenverchannel.com/about/contact-us
Denver FOX - http://kdvr.com/contact/
Denver CBS - http://denver.cbslocal.com/contact/
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7283
Registered: 8-5-2011
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lee |
What hasn't made the news lately is the pangueros have closed things down. A road block to the site for months keeps builders out for the moment.
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Good to hear! Support these guys somehow. Quietly. 
[Edited on 1-31-2016 by SFandH]
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Santiago
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CAn someone post a link to something so we can get up to speed on what the issues are? I'm totally in the dark on what this development is and the
pros/cons. What does Colorado have to do with this?
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SFandH
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https://tressantosbaja.com/
background - http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/18/when-mindfulness-goes...
http://truthsantos.org/
[Edited on 1-31-2016 by SFandH]
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by Santiago | | CAn someone post a link to something so we can get up to speed on what the issues are? I'm totally in the dark on what this development is and the
pros/cons. What does Colorado have to do with this? |
You will get all kinds of positions on this issue. The real fight has nothing to do with fisherman on the beach. The real fight is against a large
development with the fisherman caught up in the battle. As people take sides they will put up web sites that (in many cases with a lot of
mis-information) make their case. The development is Tres Santos. Google it. There is a lot on both sides....especially note the information coming
out in the news (BCSNoticias).
The very vocal and fervent fight against the development, has landed some Gringos in hot water. They could not just voice their displeasure with a
high-rise development in the area but actively fought against it and what the concluded were corrupt officials. Thus the topic of this thread.
Again Google TRES SANTOS and watch all the stuff come up. Then make up your mind....
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy | You may not like what is going on, however we are visitors in another country. If you are not a citizen, keep your mouth shut or suffer the
consequences. Go back to the States or Canada and protest all you want
|
Yes, and there are other ways for visitors to protest behind the scenes, if that is what they want to do. Many donated to costa salvaje/Wild Coast to
help fight against development at Cabo Pulmo, others donate to other organizations like Terra Peninsular to stop other development.
But to openly join protests, and be very vocal is just asking for trouble.
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8knots
Junior Nomad
Posts: 85
Registered: 1-8-2016
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Flip Flop
In an "historic turn of events," fishermen who before were opposed to the project near Todos Santos, now say that from the beginning their demands
had been respected and complied with.
La Paz, Baja California Sur - "We have never presented nor sought problems with Tres Santos, they have understood us, and I am certain they have
tried to help us. They have put us in a new location, they are helping us, they want to help us, they have never opposed the points we have asked for.
There is a lot of confusing, and many people who meddle our affairs who have not allowed us fix things," said Juan José Peralta Torres, the president
of the Punta Lobos fishing cooperative yesterday on the conflict with the tourist real estate development.
Accompanied by Jesús Salvatierra Cadena, president of the Vigilence Council, and Francisco Javier Orozco Domínguez, treasurer of the cooperative, in
his interview, Peralta Torres gave a new spin to the presumed conflict between Punta Lobos fishermen - at playa Todos Santos, south of La Paz - the
tourist development which, according to the first stories, affected fishing activities in the area. Now, the cooperative president said that Tres
Santos has always supported and complied, and that "others" who have meddled have aggravated the conflict instead of resolving it.
Peralta Torres gave out the names of Guilermoa Trasviña, Jesús Cota (alias El Diablo) and John Moreno, as those who had intervened without
representing the fishing sector. They have "enmeshed themselves with our people, they have made enemies of our own people," and we do not know how
John Moreno is a legal representative. John Moreno "I don't know why he says he is, he has never been our legal representative, never, on the contrary
he wants to represent us, but does not, John has nothing to do with the cooperative," and he described him as "a two-sided coin," who "wants power."
http://www.bcsnoticias.mx/pescadores-de-...=hootsuite
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by 8knots |
In an "historic turn of events," fishermen who before were opposed to the project near Todos Santos, now say that from the beginning their demands
had been respected and complied with.
La Paz, Baja California Sur - "We have never presented nor sought problems with Tres Santos, they have understood us, and I am certain they have
tried to help us. They have put us in a new location, they are helping us, they want to help us, they have never opposed the points we have asked for.
There is a lot of confusing, and many people who meddle our affairs who have not allowed us fix things," said Juan José Peralta Torres, the president
of the Punta Lobos fishing cooperative yesterday on the conflict with the tourist real estate development.
Accompanied by Jesús Salvatierra Cadena, president of the Vigilence Council, and Francisco Javier Orozco Domínguez, treasurer of the cooperative, in
his interview, Peralta Torres gave a new spin to the presumed conflict between Punta Lobos fishermen - at playa Todos Santos, south of La Paz - the
tourist development which, according to the first stories, affected fishing activities in the area. Now, the cooperative president said that Tres
Santos has always supported and complied, and that "others" who have meddled have aggravated the conflict instead of resolving it.
Peralta Torres gave out the names of Guilermoa Trasviña, Jesús Cota (alias El Diablo) and John Moreno, as those who had intervened without
representing the fishing sector. They have "enmeshed themselves with our people, they have made enemies of our own people," and we do not know how
John Moreno is a legal representative. John Moreno "I don't know why he says he is, he has never been our legal representative, never, on the contrary
he wants to represent us, but does not, John has nothing to do with the cooperative," and he described him as "a two-sided coin," who "wants power."
http://www.bcsnoticias.mx/pescadores-de-...=hootsuite |
And then another twist.. After the agreement was signed...The coop split apart. Some dropped out and the leadership was ousted (kicked out). Now
the remaining members are saying the will no longer honor the agreement. Whats interesting is there are two coops. This is the smaller of the two.
The larger one supports the development. Like I said, this is not really about the coop...but about stopping the project all together. The most
vocal group are environmentalists (they also protest mining in BCS) that refuse to acknowledge the prime cash crop for the coop are sharks, a species
that most environmentalist argue should be protected.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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There is so much going on in this fight, it is easy to stand back and not take sides. But beware, if you do, some are so fanatical about it they
will assume you are spy for the other side. But at least you will not get deported and your property confiscated.
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Terry28
Senior Nomad
Posts: 825
Registered: 8-25-2007
Location: S.Calif mtns.
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Mood: Thirsty
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" How to get deported in one easy lesson".......
Mexico!! Where two can live as cheaply as one.....but it costs twice as much.....
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elgatoloco
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Location: Yes
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Brings to mind one of my favorite Bowie lyrics:
"This is not America, sha la la la la"
RIP David Bowie
How about Joni:
"They paved paradise and put up a parking lot"
Where will they get all the water for Tres Santos? 
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3591
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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Agreed. Unless you're a citizen/national, deportation is a reality.
''The Todos Santos community has insufficient water resources to provide uninterrupted service for the current population, which is growing rapidly.
Our water supply is totally dependent on rainfall; prolonged drought, a common phenomenon in Baja Sur, leads to feast or famine, something we have no
control over. The conclusion here is obvious,- there is no available water for large scale development.
Given the above, Tres Santos will have to provide all the water for its projected development, in excess of 4,400 dwellings, not to mention an organic
farm, and an estimated seven workers and support personnel per new dwelling. If this were to happen we would have over 30,000 new residents turning
on the tap, seven times the current population. Tres Santos said they would not use town water and yet they now have concessions for the first 66
homes. How did that happen?
Tres Santos has promised to provide all the water needed for their development by constructing a desalinazation plant, yet to be constructed or
permitted, which would have to produce a minimum of 2,000,000 gallons per day. This is a major undertaking in an environmentally sensitive area, that
is strongly opposed by the local fishermen and many others.
We challenge Tres Santos Development to make all Permits public
as full ‘Transparency’ is stated as Tres Santos public relation policy.
– Water ‘applications/permits or concessions’ and all usage including SAPA, Ejido & CONAGUA and for Desal
– Where is Tres Santos obtaining water at the construction site?
– Where will they be obtaining water at the Beach and at CSU area?
– What water will the CSU Research Farm utilize, how will it be supplied?
– Waste water treatment, site, size, plan for treated water, costs to operate?
DeSal Issues:
DESAL PLANT DISASTER IN CABO. COULD IT HAPPEN IN TODOS SANTOS?
One of Tres Santos’ proposed solutions to the water crisis in Todos Santos is to build a desal plant.
In Cabo, more than 30 desal plants now operate. Almost all of them of them are privately run. Near the Diamante resort in Cabo (about 60KM south of
Todos Santos), the water authority OOMSAPA runs a desal plant.
At this plant, ocean waves completely severed the plant’s outflow pipes that once discharged brine 600 meters out to sea. For more than three years,
millions of gallons of briny water laden with salt and chemical by-products from the desal process have flowed across the sand. Kids play in the brine
discharge. When turtles lay their eggs, the nests are often washed away by the outflows.
The pipe flows today, unprepared. Tres Santos has said that the design of it’s desal plant will be “different,” and avoid all these problems.
Considering the spectacular engineering failure of the Tres Santos hotel seawall at Punta Lobos, Truth Santos challenges the developer.
Make public the plans for your desal plant. Where will it be built? What kind of technology will it use? Who will the contractor be?
Show the citizens of Todos Santos the Environmental impact Reports, in English AND Spanish.
This link has factual information about when Cabo’s OOMSAPA desal plant was installed, chemicals used, quantity of population served, capacity,
technology and other data.
Tres Santos made public their desal plant in July, 2015 – https://tressantosbaja.com/tres-santos-desalination-plant/
We are asking for all applications/permits/concessions for a DeSal Plant be for public disclosure.
– Is giving permission for a desal plant to Tres Santos ultimately depriving Todos Santos of having a desal plant because of the potential for
restrictions to the number of desal plants in a given geographic area?
– Has ‘Tres Santos’ destroyed beach habitat and protected red mangrove to put in sea walls and platforms to build on without having a firm permit to
build a desal plant?
– How much water will be provided for the 4,472 homes plus hotels and workers? How much is needed per day?
– What will it cost to build a plant, how much to operate the plant?
– What are the Environmental damage and loss of habitat issues?
(Marine life, Endangered Turtles, Whales, Bait fish, Sardines and Traditional Fishermen’s livelihoods, etc…) With south facing discharge?
– What size will they have to build to have a desal plant of sufficient capacity?
– Where will the electric power come from, and what pollution will that add to the environment?
– What is the financial resource to build and operate a desal plant for the thousands of people that would eventually live, work and visit at their
development?
http://truthsantos.org/wateraqua/
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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