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caj13
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7 day FMM clarifications
OK so I will be crossing at Tekate at 2 am in the morning on the 28th of December. i will have 2 vans full of first time to mexico family members, 5
young kids, 5 teenagers, and 6 so called adults. Given the logistics of keeping the herd together, and waking up sleeping kids etc, I am coming
to dread how i will deal with the FMMs.
are FMMs a requirement if one is involved in an accident and insurance gets involved, or the law - Ie if you didn't have an FMM, does that
invalidate the insurance?
we will only be in Mexico 5 days - so the FMMs are free correct? I see its free if "traveling by land" I assume that means driving - correct?
so if we went on line and filled out the forms, - are they available for the 7 day FMMs? and if so, do you need to go inside and get it stamped?
or ? I assume you don't pay - correct?
I'm just looking to get through as smoothly and quickly as possible,
thanks for any help / info you can provide
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John Harper
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Carl,
I think you have to stop for them to be stamped even if they are printed out online, so there may no advantage to pre-printing. I think if you don't
have the FMM and you get checked further down they may send you back to the border.
5 day FMM should be free.
I'm sure the usual FMM debate will follow, like asking what kind of oil to use over on my H-D forums.
John
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4x4abc
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your insurance will be invalid if FFM is not stamped
plus many other headaches the Mexicans will come up with
be a good person - be legal
you expect it from anyone coming to the US
Harald Pietschmann
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JoeJustJoe
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Lets really confuse the issue from supposedly Mexican site that claim expert knowledge about Mexico/Baja.
Mexperience, believes there is a 35KM free zone, and you won't need an FMM if you stay within this area.
Discover Baja, has more of a N-zi viewpoint, and believes anytime you cross the border, you need the FMM, and that includes the kids, over the age of
two.
Discover Baja, even goes so far, and claims if you get in an accident in Mexico, and you don't have your FMM, your auto insurance can be rendered
invalid.
The high priests on "Baja Nomad" usually go along with "Discover Baja" and say since 2015, there is no more free zone, and they probably go along with
the belief if you don't have an FMM and get in an accident, the insurance company will not pay up or the cops will pin the accident on you.
Now who wants to know what JoeJustJoe, thinks, especially about accidents in Mexico without an FMM?
________________________
From Mexperience:
If you arrive in Mexico by land or sea and intend to travel beyond the ~35 km ‘free zone’ you will need to get a visitors visa known as
Forma Migratoria Multiple, or FMM. If you fly to Mexico, air crews on international flights hand these out before the flight lands, and they are also
available at Mexican airports.
https://www.mexperience.com/your-mexican-tourist-permit-fmm/
________________________
From Discover Baja:
Mexican tourist permits, or FMMs (Forma Migratoria Multiple), are required for all non-Mexican citizens entering Baja. As of September 2015,
the “free zone” for FMMs (trips within the 20 kilometer border zone for less than 72 hours) is no longer valid and everyone entering Mexico will
need to obtain an FMM. A passport or passport card is required to obtain an FMM.
Yes. Mexican law requires that tourists from the U.S. and Canada have an FMM tourist permit for any trip into Baja. You may encounter INM
checkpoints along the peninsula where they will ask to see your passport and FMM.
If you get into an accident in Mexico and you don’t have an FMM tourist permit, you are not considered to be in accordance with Mexican law, and
therefore your Mexican auto insurance can be rendered invalid.
Each individual must have their own FMM, including children ages two and up.
http://www.discoverbaja.com/go/fmm-tourist-permits/
[Edited on 12-19-2018 by JoeJustJoe]
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mtgoat666
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Quote: Originally posted by caj13  | OK so I will be crossing at Tekate at 2 am in the morning on the 28th of December. i will have 2 vans full of first time to mexico family members, 5
young kids, 5 teenagers, and 6 so called adults. Given the logistics of keeping the herd together, and waking up sleeping kids etc, I am coming
to dread how i will deal with the FMMs.
|
Stopping at the border to get a visa, get your passport stamped, is part of the experience of travel.
Don’t fear the experience.
You say you are bringing first-timers - it is a good time for them to learn about travel in foreign lands, doing immigration at the border is part of
the travel experience.
it really is not a scary experience. You walk in, get a form, fill out the form, talk to the man in uniform, watch him efficiently type your info
into a computer, stamp the forms; and then you are on your way!
Do not fear the immigration. They are usually friendly. Especially if traveling with kids. If you smile, make conversation, they will smile back.
P.s entering Mexico at 200 AM is foolish. Do not do long road trips at night in Mexico.
[Edited on 12-19-2018 by mtgoat666]
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | your insurance will be invalid if FFM is not stamped
plus many other headaches the Mexicans will come up with
be a good person - be legal
you expect it from anyone coming to the US |
Where are you getting your information from? And I'm only talking about making your auto insurance policy invalid, not the other possible headaches or
what someone may tell you.
What I do is usually read the insurance policy's declaration page, and look for any possible exclusions.
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mjs
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I don't think you need to worry about waking up the kids at 2am. Wait until 5am when the border reopens and you can actually cross into Mexico to get
the FMM.
Or cross at one of the 24 hour crossings, TJ or Mexicali.
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David K
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Yep, Tecate border is closed from 11pm to 5am. Everyone who is not Mexican needs a passport or passport card to get the FMM, no exceptions. Baja Bound
Insurance has made it clear that immigration status is not considered when honoring policy.
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BajaMama
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FMMs are a requirement to enter Mexico legally no matter where you intend to visit. Your FMMs will be free for the five days. Whether or not you
order online or get at the border you MUST stop in at the border immigration office to get them stamped and validated. You also MUST have a valid
passport for each person obtaining an FMM.
Regarding the minors, hopefully the other "so called adults" are the parents of these kids. Otherwise you may want to look up the requirements for
crossing an international border with minors w/o their parents.
Have a great trip.
[Edited on 12-19-2018 by BajaMama]
[Edited on 12-19-2018 by BajaMama]
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sancho
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama | FMMs are a requirement to enter Mexico legally no matter where you intend to visit. Your FMMs will be free for the five days
[Edited on 12-19-2018 by BajaMama] |
With you on that, a few months back walked into TJ. Passport
required, one had to get either the free 6 nt. 7 day fmm or
the 180 day, no exceptions. Although all Mex Auto Ins
Policies I've purchased say 'policy holder must be in Mex
legally', never read that being enforced, but it's there.
The chance of a cop demanding serious mordida for not
having an fmm would be my concern
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willardguy
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do all 16 of you have passports?
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: Originally posted by sancho |
With you on that, a few months back walked into TJ. Passport
required, one had to get either the free 6 nt. 7 day fmm or
the 180 day, no exceptions. Although all Mex Auto Ins
Policies I've purchased say 'policy holder must be in Mex
legally', never read that being enforced, but it's there.
The chance of a cop demanding serious mordida for not
having an fmm would be my concern
|
That's surprising the Mexican border agent would tell you 6 or 7 day FMM, no exception, because I often walk in through the pedestrian crossing San
Ysidro, and usually say I'm just going to the pharmacy, and the Mexican customs agents, just hands me back my passport without filling out the FMM.
I would say about 60% the time they don't' fill out the FMM for me, or for a lot of other people. They seem more interesting in writing out a FMM, if
you say you're going to stay longer than seven days, or you look like a new tourist.
Of course if I drive in, I'm going to do like most of all the other drivers, and just wiz right through if I'm not driving too far into Baja.
It's no surprise that "Baja Bound," an actual insurance carrier told David K. that immigration status is not considered when honoring a policy.
They would be looking at a big fat lawsuit, if they refused to honor a claim because you didn't have a FMM when you got into a accident, unless it was
spelled out in their fine print, and even then you still might have a claim against them.
The last time a couple of corrupt Mexican cops stopped me, and possibility wanted to shake me down, by asking me, " do you have drugs, have you been
drinking, and what I do for a living?"
Never once did those cops ask to see my FMM, which I rarely have anyway.
I have heard about a lot of shake down attempts, but never one over a FMM, which I doubt Mexican cops have authority to enforce. Of course that's a
moot point, if they are just seeking a bribe.
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David K
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For the newbies to Baja, cops DO NOT enforce immigration laws, and neither does the military. However, I am one who believes everyone visiting Mexico
should follow the immigration law (as best we know them). As of ~2015, any trips across the border (for any duration or any distance south) requires
we obtain an FMM, and to do so we must have a passport or passport card.
Before 2015, there was an exception for the state of Baja California as far south as Maneadero or San Felipe, for up to 72 hours. This made family
vacations for a 3-day weekend to Northern Baja a big hit. The free 7-day FMM was also a wise choice of Mexico to create, a few years after they began
to charge for tourist cards (in mid-2000). Charging every man, woman, and child (~$25 dollars) just to get into Mexico was prohibitive for many
families.
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sancho
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| Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe |
if they refused to honor a claim because you didn't have a FMM when you got into a accident, unless it was spelled out in their fine print
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Exactly my point, it IS spelled out in both HDI and the newer
Chubb Mex Ins. Co's fine print, referring to the policy holder 'has to be
in Mex legally', never did I say it has been used to avoid a
claim. As for taking the word of a US based Mex Ins. sales
broker, acting simply as a salesman for the Mex carrier, above the Mex Ins. clearly written policy clause is a naive position
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JoeJustJoe
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If you go back to 2015, Rodulfo Figueroa Pacheco, the federal delegate in charge of the international border in Baja California," explained there was
never really a 25 "Zona frontera," at least not officially.
Figueroa, also admitted they don't have the resources to enforce travel documents from drivers and passengers.
Now of course you have to consider the source, the "San Diego, Reader, but this article is accurate, and other regular mainstream articles quoted the
same Mexican official in their articles.
Nothing in Mexico, is rarely so clear cut, and black and white, like many here believe.
______________________________________
From the San Diego Reader in 2015, when supposedly the new laws went into effect:
“The notion of a zona frontera [border zone] was never a law,” Figueroa said. “All people who are not Mexican citizens must have travel
documents, like in any other country. Mexican citizens must show proof of their citizenship.”
Mexico considers travel documents as a passport or a passport card, and Mexican citizens can use their voter-registration card or even a copy of their
birth certificate. Many visiting Tijuana and other northern border cities were once told that they were permitted to remain within 25 miles of the
border — the zona frontera — sans a visa or a passport, but according to Figueroa that was never federal law.
“We don’t currently have the resources to enforce travel documents for drivers and passengers of automobiles coming into Baja from San Ysidro,”
Figueroa admitted. “As technology advances, perhaps we will find a way.”
https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2015/oct/07/citylights-b...
_________________________________
This is from the NPR in 2015, where they admit they are not having all foreign tourist filling out FMM, and when it's busy they just let them walk
through, and others admit, it doesn't make much sense that if you drive across you don't have to fill out forums( FMM) but if you walk across you do.
___________________________
From the NPR ( notice nobody is being busted for not having a FMM, because they are too busy to issue one)
"This is about putting our house in order," Figueroa said, according to the AP. "If the line becomes clogged up, we will just let everybody through.
If we can't check everybody, we won't."
Secretary Oscar Escobedo wants to persuade officials that foreigners shouldn't have to fill out an entry form.
"It's illogical that if you drive across, you don't need to fill out the form, and if you walk across, you need to fill out the form," he said.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/08/20/433155278...
[Edited on 12-20-2018 by JoeJustJoe]
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David K
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Of course, but it is also illogical to create a traffic jam that goes back as far as San Clemente, which is what would happen if they stopped,
questioned, and made those without them park and get them.
So, a few of us go through the process and the other 90% don't.
If Mexico wanted to streamline this better, they would sell permits that go on the window, online, and monitors would scan them as they cross the
border. Every gringo car without a sticker would be sent to a huge parking lot. Naturally, it means another nail in the coffin of casual tourism with
these government regulations that only hurt tourist businesses in Mexico once they are enforced to this degree.
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John Harper
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
If Mexico wanted to streamline this better, they would sell permits that go on the window, online, and monitors would scan them as they cross the
border. |
They already photograph you when you cross into Mex, at least something flashed like a camera as my truck went through last Saturday. Seems doable.
They also read your chip passport card on the way into the US.
Isn't that (chip card) part of the READI lane program? IDK, I just use the regular line coming back because it seems pretty confused getting from the
toll road to the READI lanes. At least for me, I like going the way I know my route and I won't get trapped in bowels of the Caracol
John
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pacificobob
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i would rather take a bullet than travel with 16 people.
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John Harper
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I hear you. I can barely tolerate one other person.
John
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David K
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Thanks for the good laugh guys!
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