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palvarez
Newbie
Posts: 3
Registered: 2-12-2019
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Do I need a passport to travel to Mazatclan
Does anyone know if i need a passport to travel from Ensenada to Mazaclan on the bus
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
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If you're Mexican, no, if you are a foreigner yes, legally you need a valid FMM from INM to be in the country which is attainable only with a
passport. You will be passing quite a ways through many inspection stops but they may never ask to see the FMM and you don't need an FMM to buy the
bus ticket and you may never be asked for it, but, if you are asked to have one, and there is a chance you will be asked at some point, then you won't
have it and yon't be able to get one, since you have no passport, so in that case you would be asked to leave.
[Edited on 2-13-2019 by gnukid]
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palvarez
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So does asked to leave mean ARRESTED and DEPORTED
I have lived in ensenada of course for 1 1/2 years without a passport and never been asked but i have been told that if i travel to the southern
region of mexico this can become an issue
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
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Location: Occupied Aztlan
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My God, we have a suspected American illegal alien in Mexico!
Don't worry I'm sure most everyone here will look the other way and give you the advice you seek, but if you were Mexican, asking questions about
living in the US undocumented, the team members here would be highly upset with you.
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palvarez
Newbie
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joe dont start it ive been told what car you drive and your address.... Ill deport you as an enemy of the almighty trump...
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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Do we have a new troll here?
"Mazatclan"????
Don't believe everything you think....
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  | My God, we have a suspected American illegal alien in Mexico!
Don't worry I'm sure most everyone here will look the other way and give you the advice you seek, but if you were Mexican, asking questions about
living in the US undocumented, the team members here would be highly upset with you. |
Joey, apparently you are unaware, it is the legal policy in over 500 USA sanctuary cities to not ask for, share or enforce illegal residency status of
undocumented illegal immigrants, instead, benefits are provided, financial support for utility bills, housing, medical care centers, labor centers to
locate and provide non-taxed income for work etc., as a policy USA provides institutional financial support for 10's of millions of people who don't
pursue legal status, who don't have any legal id, drivers licenses, no insurance, invalid registration of vehicles, unpaid utility bills, etc. unless
of course you are a legal resident then any failure to correctly identify your change of address on your documentation within 10 days, or any failure
to maintain up-to-date documentation is an offense you will be cited for and charged?
In Mexico any identified undocumented illegal immigrants are immediately expelled from the country in the most strict enforcement.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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One time could be a typo... But twice?? What do you think Ged,
is this a gang or 'clan' in Mazatlán?
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by gnukid |
Joey, apparently you are unaware, it is the legal policy in over 500 USA sanctuary cities to not ask for, share or enforce illegal residency status of
undocumented illegal immigrants, instead, benefits are provided, financial support for utility bills, housing, medical care centers, labor centers to
locate and provide non-taxed income for work etc., as a policy USA provides institutional financial support for 10's of millions of people who don't
pursue legal status, who don't have any legal id, drivers licenses, no insurance, invalid registration of vehicles, unpaid utility bills, etc. unless
of course you are a legal resident then any failure to correctly identify your change of address on your documentation within 10 days, or any failure
to maintain up-to-date documentation is an offense you will be cited for and charged?
In Mexico any identified undocumented illegal immigrants are immediately expelled from the country in the most strict enforcement.
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Gnukid, I'm well aware of sanctuary cities in the US, and I fully support, sanctuary cities, especially since those cities are protected by the Tenth
Amendment, which provides for the separation of federal and state powers, and the fact it makes our cities safer, with undocumented aliens, willing to
report crimes, if they know they will not be deported.
Do we really want our local street cops, pulling over mothers, taking their children to school, or worse, pulling over kids walking to school, and
asking for their papers? The US is not N-zi Germany.
As far as I know, undocumented aliens, can not receive welfare, for the most part, unless they are US citizens, or legally authorized to be in the US.
Now if you're talking about the kids, their kids, may very well be US citizens, and have the same rights as all other American Citizens.
The US provides emergency medical to anyone, and that includes undocumented Mexican workers. What do you want people dying outside of hospitals? But
undocumented do not receive regular medical care.
I don't think utility companies, check immigration status, but I do know for sure, if you don't pay your utility bill, they will shut off your
utilities like electricity or water.
The fact is all undocumented aliens/workers, pay taxes both directly and indirectly, like rent, and local taxes, and if they were not a benefit to the
US, the Federal government, would actually enforce it's immigration laws.
Most undocumented workers, are hard working, like all those workers on Trump's golf courses, where Trump's managers, is alleged to have provided fake
IDs, to it's workers, and for sure, they never used E-Verify, like most businesses that turn a blind eye to the legal status of it's workers.
Regarding Mexico's harsh immigration policies. What a laugh!
Yeah, they may be tough on some immigrants, from poor Latin American, countries, but we don't hear too much about American illegal aliens, getting
deported from Mexico, although we hear they stepped up efforts to check papers the last couple of years.
I have yet to hear anyone getting deported for not having a FMM card.
Really, off hand, I could only recall Nancy Conway, the Mexico hater, was asked to leave Mexico, in so many words, but not even she was really kicked
out.
I'm often in Baja, armed with only a passcard, and no FMM card. And lets say they deport me, because I'm a US Citizen, I could jump in my car, and
drive back in Mexico, and resume my fun in Mexico.
Mexico's immigration laws are even more lax than the US immigration laws, and just about anyone could live in Mexico, with papers or no papers.
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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Oh, probably just another socialist plot to destroy all good in the world....
Don't believe everything you think....
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John Harper
Super Nomad
Posts: 2289
Registered: 3-9-2017
Location: SoCal
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I think he means MAGA KLAN?
John
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by lencho | [
I don't care who you are, you would double your credibility overnight by simply ripping the comma key off of your keyboard!
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You sound like another angry old man. I would hate to kick my ball over your fence.
Instead of making comments about my grammar, you should watch your own grammar.
You really overuse the semicolon, and I would cut down on the smileys, if I were you.
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Howard
Super Nomad
Posts: 2353
Registered: 11-13-2007
Location: Loreto/Manhattan Beach/Kona
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Mood: I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done.
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Some of you people must lead very sad lives to have the responses that you do. If this is the best you have to do with your time, look in the mirror
and move on and try and get a life.
Sad, very sad.
Maybe the poster is a troll, maybe he's not, answer him if you like and move on.
We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing
George Bernard Shaw
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Joe Perhaps you lack experience to know. You misunderstand the realities that separate undocumented people comparing Mexico to USA.
There is a road from Cabo to San Francisco that has been traveled forever called the El Camino Real. Today, there are people who live in campers along
the road way. In Mexico, any foreigner without proper papers, license, registration will eventually be expelled back to their home country. They also
may not work for remuneration.
In the USA, there are cities and courts who have created legal protection for foreigners to live without ID, license, registration, and they provide a
legally protected place to gather, every 5-10 miles, daily to meet and find work, to be paid under the table, with no taxes withheld, they may not be
persecuted or questioned, their personal info and criminal history may not be shared.
If you visit the doctor, let's say El Camino Hospital, and you enter and speak English and say you have no insurance and can't pay, they will have you
fill out a form with address and name that is entered in a computer and permanent record and you can get care but they will bill you and the bill will
be pursued, though not aggressively, the bill exists and often will be hundreds to thousands of dollars.
If you walk in to the EL Camino Hospital and speak Spanish, and say you can't pay and have no insurance, you will be directed to a different door,
actually one flight downstairs, and there you will fill paper work that does not require an address or real name and there inso computer entry. They
will ask if you need support for utilities, food, and many other services, you will see a doctor and receive medication that is in the form of samples
and the cost will be zero with no bill and you can walk out with hundreds of dollars of support.
If you speak Spanish and are Mexican and are in an accident, you will not be cited, you will not be responsible and your car will not be towed away or
impounded. If you speak English and have an accident you will be cited and be in big trouble if you don't have proper documentation.
In many sanctuary cities, if you are undocumented foreigner it is now legal to live in your car, you may not be harassed for living in a car with no
documentation and no reg, etc. But if you are a USA citizen you will be harassed and often arrested simply for being somewhere, e.g. sleeping in a
car, parked in parking lot after hours, sitting outside in the same place for too long etc... You will receive a ticket and it will result in a fine
that must be addressed or you will end up with a warrant for arrest and increasing cost for resolution.
If you have a criminal record, even as a multiple time felon, as a documented citizen or documented foreign English speaker that information will be
passed by computer and radio to any official who inquires about your name in response to an investigation or suspicion. If you are a Spanish speaking
foreigner with no documentation the information can not be passed from agency to agency in sanctuary cities. These repeat offenders are released in
many cases for failure to have adequate shared records.
An example is the case José Inez García Zárate (or Juan Francisco López-Sánchez) in the case of the murder of Kate Steinle. He was an
undocumented illegal immigrant deported 5 times, who was consistently released by sanctuary cities due to laws that restricted sharing criminal
history for illegal aliens. He shot and killed Kate with a stolen police handgun. he was eventually acquitted due to it not being his fault, he said
he accidentally shot her, the gun fired while aiming at a seal.
The point is the laws are applied quite harshly in Mexico on undocumented foreigners, while in the USA, the laws are overwhelmingly protective of
undocumented foreigners, and apparently Mexicans in particular, who are allowed to live outside the law and not conform to the same obligations and
responsibilities, while citizens and legally documented visitors must pay to play and have no protection from persecution.
Clearly there are two sets of rules that apply in the USA for reasons which are unclear and certainly create a 2 class system that facilitates
lawlessness and chaos, while in Mexico that law is applied in a much more consistent manner.
I am not judging the individuals, in fact more than half the people I know in Mexico and the USA both don't have documentation. They are my friends.
Most people, like you Joe, don't understand the process and simply cruise along as long as they are allowed. I understand each person has their own
reasons for the path they choose. I am merely commenting on the vast difference between the two countries and the vast difference in how the law is
applied in USA to these two groups, which does seem to be unfair and create a chaotic society intentionally, where some people have to pay and be
responsible and some people do not.
So, now, in the USA the El Camino Real is lined with undocumented foreigners many of whom live in their cars outside the law, and there are vast
services provided, from bathrooms, to free wifi lining the road, food, health care, the list goes on and on, the individuals are not responsible for
the chaos they create, they don't pay taxes or bills, while their neighbors pay at high rate to support the chaos.
My friends, family and all the business we work at provide support for those undocumented people who need it without question to provide a "leg up".
It is customary to donate at least 10% of your income to chariitable non-denominational services as well your time to support those undocumented
people living along the El Camino, provide their bathrooms, provide services, clean up the trash, etc.
But wouldn't it be better if the rules were applied more evenly and everyone was educated how and encouraged to be responsible. Just like you Joe,
shouldn't you just get the FMM? Buy insurance and keep your documentation up to date?
Why are half the people made to pay the difference for the other half? Why allow some people to be repeat felons continuing on a path of crime and not
pursue them while others are harassed for parking more than 12 inches from the curb resulting in heavy fines and arrests?
Now SF and Oakland have the highest violent crime and vehicle robberies in the USA. The police don't come if you are a victim. Actually there is only
one case being prosecuted for vehicle robbery in SF today. This is institutionally created societal chaos at its worst creating a dichotomy of people
working for and against each other, designed and supported by people who either want to destroy society or don't understand what they are doing, Which
is it Joe?
[Edited on 2-14-2019 by gnukid]
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DawnPatrol
Nomad
Posts: 357
Registered: 11-19-2013
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Some great replies...
But that bodes a question:
what is someones objection to NOT get a Passport?
I know, stirring the pot.......
Alan
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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Wow, Gnukid, that is quite a anti-immigrant rant!
I don't know where to start, and really I don't want to spend that much time here, except to say you're mostly wrong, you are mostly hateful, and I
don't know if you have been in the hood, because what you describe doesn't happen in most cities, including so-called "sanctuary cities," which in
itself is really about community based policing.
I also noticed you cherry picked, the bay area, where it's common for regular houses, to go for $1 million dollars or more, and forces many bay area
workers to live in their RVs, along El Camino Real road.
San Francisco, and the surrounding areas have a rich tax base, and they could do things for the poor, that other cities in America, can not.
I understand that " El Camino Hospital, offers the poor, who can not otherwise qualify for medicare, some type of charity care, regardless of
immigration status. It sounds like a great program to me, and not all hospitals are as generous. The fact still stands, undocumented aliens, for the
most part do not qualify for welfare, or free medical care, although emergency care is available to anyone, and there are always free clinics, and
good hospitals like El Camino, that will help a limited amount of the poor.
In the hood where I grew up in East LA, police are called pigs, and the border patrol is called La Migra, and I call them jack-booted thugs! Los
Angeles, was where the so-called sanctuary cities started and then San Francisco.( Sanctuary city is not an official government term. It has no legal
meaning. )
There is nothing in the law that stops the police or the border patrol, from doing their work, and arresting those that break the law. In fact, a few
months back, Jeff Sessions, declared war on the sanctuary cities in California, and sent it's jack-booted thugs, to round up the dangerous criminals,
working at the Sizzler, whose real crime was trying to feed their families and maybe send some money back home in Mexico.
Where you object Gnukid is that many local police agencies, do not share their information with the federal government, nor do they want to waste
their resources cracking down on undocumented workers in restaurants or in the parking lots at Home Depot.
Gnukid, you also seem upset that police aren't allowed to just stop and question dark-skinned people walking on the street speaking Spanish.
I'm sorry, but in the US, we have 4th amendment laws that apply to everybody even undocumented Mexican workers, so unless the police have probably
cause or reasonable suspicion, they can't stop you on the street for speaking Spanish. The thing that makes LA or SFO, a little different than other
cops in racist cities in the south. Is those other cops in racist cities, do not really follow the constitution or their own polices, and they crack
down on just a whim. Even in LA or SFO, cops can be pigs, and will harass undocumented Mexicans, and if they get arrested, they may even share that
information with the FEDS.
I pity the criminal undocumented alien, who breaks a law in Los Angeles, and wave around a "sanctuary city" banner. It's not going to work, he is
going to jail. Will he get deported? That depends on the crime. If it's a first offense, and misdemeanor charge. Probably not, and that's only fair.
Oh no, are you really going to bring up young white girl, Kate Steinle, who was killed accidentally by José Inez García Zárate?
Yes, stop the presses, whenever a pretty white girl is killed. But the fact is, it was a freak accident, and he was acquitted for the charge of
murder. If you ask me, the real outrage, was that José Inez García Zárate, spent 20 months in jail over a marijuana conviction! However, I'm sure
he will be deported this time, and he will probably stay in Mexico.
One final note, that you Gunkid, may not be aware of what was happening in the hood. The police would often set up road blocks, and stop every driver,
and when they found a driver with no drivers license, usually an undocumented Mexican, but it could be anybody. The cops, would tow the car away, take
it to the tow yard, and keep the car there for 30 days, while the tow storage charge added up, which often amounted for more than the car was worth.
So now some cities in LA, changed that policy, and if someone is caught driving without a drivers license, they give them about 20 minutes, to call a
license driver to get the car, and then they only write a traffic citation, instead of a death sentence for the car.
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BajaNomad
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Thread Moved
2-16-2019 at 11:03 AM |
gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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To clarify for those who are apparently unaware, any law abiding non-criminal person may successfully enter either Mexico or USA. There is no reason
to be an illegal alien other than a lack of respect for the country and their laws.
Many people are apparently unaware of how easy it is to successfully enter as a visitor in both USA and Mexico so they enter illegally and that starts
them on a bad path.
To begin, one does need to have personal identification documentation, a passport, a home address and a destination address, a travel itinerary
showing a plan to arrive and depart, demonstration of adequate savings and one must apply at a port of entry. Both USA and Mexico offer translators to
assist in the process. If you want to work the process varies but is possible for those who want to work.
All of my Mexican friends and their children who want to visit me in USA now have a visa, it seemed impossible to them at first, when I explained you
need an id, passport, home and destination, itinerary and demonstrable savings, then they found out it wasn't hard at all, (in fact not having a visa
is really hard and more expensive and stressful) you just need to plan and be prepared. Same goes for friends who want visit Mexico and even work. The
process to apply and receive a visitor or work visa is well documented and is open to any law abiding person.
Same goes for DL, care reg and insurance. It seems hard until you find out how easy it is, and then you realize what a pain to not have documentation.
Furthermore, Health insurance is free for those cannot afford it in USA. For those who can pay a sliding pay scale exist to subsidize what you can not
afford. Change of job or address is a qualifying event that allows you sign up any day of the year.
[Edited on 2-16-2019 by gnukid]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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I am leaving for Baja soon and will report on how the FMM procedure is for me today, when I get back online.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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Joe, You really like to frame Nomads as anti immigrant or anti Mexico when in fact practically all of us are immigrants to either USA or Mexico and we
all love Mexico. Your obsession with framing Nomads as anti-immigrant sounds a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.
The problem I have with policing is that it is not applied evenly. For example, speaking of the 4th amendment, once I was at a party with the
president of Argentina, and someone mentioned the police were breaking into my van outside. I went outside with with my rum drink and yep there was
SF Chief of Police Greg Suhr breaking into my van. I waited and watched and then approached him and reminded him of the 4th amendment. He said
anywhere within a 100 miles of the border was a no constitution zone and he can do whatever he wants and needed to clear the suspicious looking van
due to a visiting dignitary.
Recently I was riding my bike on my own street and a police man stopped me for riding in a meandering style which raised his suspicion. He had me on
the ground with his boots on my head screaming steroid induced threats at me. He had no reason to stop me nor reason to request I identify myself, but
I had no choice and showed my id to show I lived on that very street so I was released.
I understand the constitutional case involving the tow company scams with police kickbacks up and down California, since I know the tow guys and the
cops. I was at a pizza joint the other day and my tow buddy and some cops were crying about the loss of all that income. The cases are public info.
Now, of course you can not tow the vehicle of unlicensed driver involved in an accident, that is the point I made. Because unfair police policies now
unlicensed drivers are free to drive up and down the el camino and police are afraid to cite them, because of all these historical constitutional
cases, because they have to wait for not 20 minutes but at least 45 minutes for a friend to arrive and drive the car away, even though it has no
registration, no insurance and the driver had no license and was in an accident? If every cop has to spend an hour with every unlicensed driver just
so they can drive away again and they give you some fake name and never follow up on the ticket anyway its a waste of time.
But, if my license plate light is dim I am pulled over and harassed and cited, but police won't come if you are a victim of a vehicle robbery. They
won't cite the thousands of unlicensed vehicles with no lights on the side of the El Camino, but they will cite the legal vehicles?
I use my off road racing radios to also monitor emergency frequencies so I hear these police discussions all day and night. They don't want to bother
undocumented people because they have no id or formal address so that opens up a can for worms. It is not profitable and it's a waste of time, so
police go after the sure thing, easy pickings, like a legal vehicle with a dim brake light.
What's worse, is people like yourself promote illegal activity as though it is some right, or just the way life is and the rest of should pay to
support this illegal activity as part of acceptable behavior. But the truth is, it's not hard to be legal, its actually much harder to be illegal.
I am a friend to many types of people, and it shocks me how many people just don't understand how to register a car, get a license, get insurance or
even health care in both Mexico and USA.
The problem I have with you Joe, is this nonsense that having a huge population of non-documented people is just part of life and something we should
embrace , support and encourage. The truth is that a two class system of documented and undocumented populations promotes chaos, division, criminal
activity, human trafficking, abuse, exploitation and causes permanent irreparable physical and emotional harm as well stunts personal growth and
success fo those people. Anyone who promotes illegal immigration has no compassion for the people who suffer unspeakable harm at the hands of a
massive criminal network that profits off the backs of exploited people, which is supported and encouraged largely out of ignorance, and duplicitous
virtue signaling.
[Edited on 2-16-2019 by gnukid]
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | I am leaving for Baja soon and will report on how the FMM procedure is for me today, when I get back online. |
Walking or driving?
Ask them why most drivers just blow by not stopping and getting the FMM?
Ask them why they have no procedures in place to check everyone entering Mexico, and ensuring they get a FMM, if they are foreigners?
Ask then if they even care, if somebody is making a day trip in Baja, and if all of them bother to give them a FMM, for short trips?
Ask them for the penalty of being in Mexico without a FMM, and if there is a penalty, does it include deportation on the spot warning or what?
And ask them if you have to return the FMM when leaving Mexico by foot or car, and what's the procedure if so?
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