| Pages:
1
2
3
..
6 |
JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10537
Registered: 10-3-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
A year into the pandemic and we have finally learned that lock downs and travel restrictions don't work
Even CNN has finally admitted it.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/17/politics/ron-desantis-covid-f...
St. Petersburg, Florida (CNN)After a year of criticism by health experts, mockery from comedians and blistering critiques from political rivals,
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is standing unabashedly tall among the nation's governors on the front lines of the coronavirus fight.
"Everyone told me I was wrong," DeSantis, a Republican, said in a fundraising appeal on Tuesday, drawing attention to his defiance against the
pandemic. "I faced continued pressure from radical Democrats and the liberal media, but I refused to back down. It's clear: Florida got it right."
As many parts of the country embark on an uneasy march toward normalcy, Florida is not only back in business -- it's been in business for the better
part of the past year. DeSantis' gamble to take a laissez faire approach appears to be paying off -- at least politically, at least for now, as other
governors capturing attention in the opening phase of the pandemic now face steeper challenges.
Despite far fewer rules and restrictions, Florida lands nearly in the middle of all states on a variety of coronavirus metrics. The state has had
about 3% more Covid-19 cases per capita than the US overall, but about 8% fewer deaths per capita. More than 32,000 Floridians have died of Covid-19,
and the state's per capita death rate ranks 24th in the nation.
"Those lockdowns have not worked. They've done great damage to our country," DeSantis said Tuesday at a news conference in Tallahassee. "We can never
let something like this happen again. Florida took a different path. We've had more success as a result."
DeSantis -- who, at 42, is the nation's youngest governor -- is standing out among his peers and seizing upon what he and his supporters believe is a
vindication for their policies.
Lockdowns and school openings are suddenly a new measure for voters to hold governors and other elected officials accountable, a sign that the
politics of the pandemic could open an uncertain chapter for many holding public office. He will be among the governors putting his record to the test
when he runs for re-election next year.
"We still have millions of kids across this country who are denied access to in-person education," DeSantis said at the news conference. "We still
have businesses closed in many parts of this country. We have millions and millions of lives destroyed."
'It would not be booming if it was shut down'
With spring on the horizon, DeSantis suddenly appears to be in a position of strength compared to some of his fellow governors, including many of whom
took far more restrictive approaches to the fight against coronavirus that caused a trickle-down effect on the economy.
He is not facing a potential recall like California Gov. Gavin Newsom, under investigation like New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo or being second-guessed for
lifting a statewide mask mandate like Texas Gov. Greg Abbott.
DeSantis refused to implement a mask mandate in the first place, making him an outlier a year ago. At the time, he was hewing closely to President
Donald Trump's playbook, which he argued at the time was good for business.
The unemployment rate in Florida is 4.8 %, according to the latest figures from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, compared to 6.8% in Texas, 8.8% in
New York and 9% in California.
"If you look at what's happening in South Florida right now, I mean this place is booming. It would not be booming if it was shut down," DeSantis said
last month as a crush of tourists began arriving. "Los Angeles isn't booming. New York City's not booming. It's booming here because you can live like
a human being."
Florida has recorded about 9,204 cases per 100,000 people and about 150 deaths per 100,000 people, according to the latest data from Johns Hopkins
University. Across the country overall, there have been about 8,969 cases per 100,000 people and 163 deaths per 100,000 people.
Despite far more stringent restrictions, California only ranks one spot better than Florida in both measures. Its death rate is about 5% lower than
Florida's, which means about 1,500 lives could have been saved in Florida if the state's death rate matched that of California.
Still, comparing one state to another is complicated and often counterproductive, said Jason Salemi, an associate professor of epidemiology at the
University of South Florida College of Public Health who maintains his own Covid dashboard. For example, he said, the humidity of Florida and the
density of New York City offer entirely different scenarios for fighting coronavirus.
"What I'd love to ask about Florida is, if we had done things differently in Florida, what would it have looked like?" Salemi told CNN. "If you use
those metrics of where Florida is relative to a lot of other states, we're looking middle of the pack. So no, it hasn't been a disaster in that we're
leading in mortality per capita in cases per capita."
He added: "It's not always about doing well relative to your peers. It's how can we prevent as much morbidity and mortality from the virus while
keeping an eye on what's happening with our economy."
He said Florida has also benefitted from local ordinances requiring masks and restricting the sizes of gatherings. DeSantis has prohibited cities and
counties from fining people for refusing to wear masks and is stirring outrage among local officials by pushing to strip their authority to put such
rules in place at all.
Throughout the pandemic, it's that defiant and often combative DeSantis who has increasingly become the darling of Republicans. He declines most
interview requests, including from CNN, even as he frequently appears on Fox News and other propaganda platforms. He has been locked in one fight
after another with the state's media over transparency on Covid statistics and other issues.
Yet his policies have boosted his standing inside his party, all but certainly closing the door to any Republican challenges. Potential Democratic
contenders are already circling.
Rep. Charlie Crist -- who served as Republican governor of the state from 2007 to 2011 and switched parties in 2012 -- is among the Democrats thinking
about challenging DeSantis for re-election next year. He said he intended to make up his mind before summer.
Asked how he thought Florida had withstood the pandemic, Crist said: "It's a mixed bag, to be candid."
"We have a light at the end of the tunnel feeling and that really is a godsend," Crist told CNN in an interview in his office here. "On the other
hand, there's about 33,000 of my fellow Floridians that are dead now. And that's incredibly sad, tragic and beyond unfortunate. So how are we doing?
Well, we're slugging through it like the rest of the country is and just doing the best we can."
Crist and other Florida Democrats are calling for a US Justice Department investigation into whether DeSantis gave preference to donors after
invitation-only vaccines clinics were set up in at least two upscale communities. The exclusive Covid-19 clinics allowed about 6,000 people to jump
ahead of tens of thousands of seniors on waitlists in Manatee and Charlotte counties, where the drives happened.
"Was there preference given to certain Caucasian wealthy, Republican communities?" Crist said. "Because it certainly looks like it."
A spokeswoman for the governor has dismissed the accusation, saying: "The insinuation that politics play into vaccine distribution in Florida is
baseless and ridiculous."
'I think he took a gamble and it worked out'
Here in Florida, where beaches along the Atlantic Ocean and on Gulf of Mexico are crowded this week in ways not seen for more than a year, the
complete story of the pandemic has yet to be written, as President Joe Biden inherits the challenge and has accelerated vaccines here and across the
country. Yet health experts and local officials worry that a parade of spring break vacationers could contribute to a spike in Covid-19 cases.
Tom Golden, who owns a restaurant and bar along the busy stretch of Central Avenue in downtown St. Petersburg, said he didn't have much of an opinion
on DeSantis a year ago. But with his business not only surviving, but thriving, he offers a measure of credit to the governor.
"When he went into office, I wasn't sure what to expect," Golden said in an interview just before lunch on a sunny morning this week. "But he didn't
do anything to hurt me as a business owner or me as a Floridian. So fine with me."
After businesses were allowed to open after being shuttered for several weeks late last spring, Golden said he recalls having mixed feelings about the
balancing act of keeping the economy alive and protecting the public's health.
"Well, of course, as a business owner I supported it, but as a human being, I kept thinking that it's a horrible position to be in," Golden said.
"It's a hard one to measure. I think he made a good decision."
Conversations with more than a dozen Floridians offered a wide assessment of views about DeSantis' handling of the coronavirus crisis. Several people
suggested they were not initially supportive him, but in hindsight found themselves approving of his decision to reopen the economy and schools.
A woman strolling down the St. Petersburg Pier spoke about her grandchildren in California, who have attended school virtually for the last year. She
said she believes the Florida approach was better, given the temperate weather and ability to be outside. She declined to be identified by name, but
praised DeSantis' decisions that have allowed the orchestra to resume playing here and the economy to thrive.
Molly Minton, who works as a laboratory supervisor, said she recalls being dispirited as she drove home from work and saw crowded bars and
restaurants. Looking back, she said, she is glad many small businesses were able to stay open and believes Florida was simply lucky in many respects.
"I think he took a gamble and it worked out," Minton said of the governor.
In a sprawling state of more than 21 million people, where some estimates say about 1,000 new residents arrive every day, many people said they had no
opinion of
DeSantis at all and didn't know much about him.
He was born in Jacksonville and raised on the Gulf Coast just north of here in Dunedin, and he had a love for baseball that sent his team to the
Little League World Series. Later, he played outfield while studying at Yale. He graduated from Harvard Law School and worked as a Naval prosecutor,
including a stint in Iraq as a Navy JAG lawyer advising a SEAL team.
In 2012, he won a seat in Congress and was elected governor in 2018 two months after he turned 40. He was largely unknown during the primary campaign
until he won the endorsement of Trump, who became aware of him through frequent appearances on Fox News.
Now, DeSantis is seen by many grassroots conservatives as a potential 2024 presidential candidate. That path depends on his gubernatorial reelection
next year.
His long-range future, of course, also depends on the outcome of the rest of the pandemic. Yet it's clear he hopes to make that his new calling card,
which he telegraphed in a fundraising appeal for Republican governors that he sent to supporters on Tuesday.
"Right now," DeSantis wrote, "my state of Florida is one of the only states that said no to oppressive lockdowns and has become an oasis of freedom
for Americans."
|
|
|
BajaTed
Senior Nomad
Posts: 859
Registered: 5-2-2010
Location: Bajamar
Member Is Offline
|
|
Mother Nature is only on round one.
Es Todo Bueno
|
|
|
Tioloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2653
Registered: 7-30-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Actually, Mother Nature is guaranteed to win. So you may as well step out of the bubble and enjoy her while she lasts.
|
|
|
RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
|
|
The dreaded rebound still hasn’t materialized and not a single report of Zombies!
|
|
|
RocketJSquirrel
Nomad
Posts: 251
Registered: 8-3-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
I'm with lencho. It's not over until it's over. Don't get me wrong, I'm ready for it to be over yesterday.
But nobody really knows how this will play out. All even the experts can do is make their best guess. And that's all we can ask for.
|
|
|
surabi
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4913
Registered: 5-6-2016
Member Is Offline
|
|
Of course lockdowns and travel restrictions work and New Zealand is a good example, as are some other places. What doesn't work is on again off again
lockdowns and inconsistent travel restrictions.
You can't lockdown because cases are surging and then open things up again just because the numbers start to drop. That's just stupid.
So comparing different states in the US to each other doesn't hold water because nowhere in the US were lockdowns and travel restrictions consistent,
they weren't in place long enough, tons of people ignored the mandates, and they weren't enforced.
Comparing stupid behavior to stupid behavior only results in stupid conclusions.
[Edited on 3-20-2021 by surabi]
[Edited on 3-20-2021 by surabi]
|
|
|
JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10537
Registered: 10-3-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  | Of course lockdowns and travel restrictions work and New Zealand is a good example, as are some other places. What doesn't work is on again off again
lockdowns and inconsistent travel restrictions.
You can't lockdown because cases are surging and then open things up again just because the numbers start to drop. That's just stupid.
So comparing different states in the US to each other doesn't hold water because nowhere in the US were lockdowns and travel restrictions consistent,
they weren't in place long enough, tons of people ignored the mandates, and they weren't enforced.
Comparing stupid behavior to stupid behavior only results in stupid conclusions.
|
Ppl keep bringing up New Zealand as some sort of case study.
Do you realize New Zealand is two islands, isolated from much of the world. Its land mass is nearly twice that of Florida with less than 1/4th the
population of Florida at 4.9M. And 70 times less populated than the US.
New Zealand didn't have hundreds of thousands of ppl arriving from Asia and Europe monthly in the 4-5 months before the world realized what we were
dealing with.
Hopefully this is the last New Zealand is used as an example of what the US could have done.
And hell yes you can compare FL and California. Remember, that 90% of Covid deaths are with ppl above the age of 60 and Florida has the oldest
population in the US outside of Maine.
[Edited on 3-20-2021 by JZ]
|
|
|
RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
|
|
NZ didn’t suffer from the 1918 flu either! The do suffer from Mommy state government though! Even the Aussies think they’re over the top!
|
|
|
Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
|
|
The only sensible argument that lockdowns don't work is that sick people spread infections by living in close proximity during a lockdown. But at
least you contain the ill. Having them walk among others risks a much faster spread. All successful countries have used lockdowns until the virus is
gone with travel restrictions and quarantines. I agree that enforcing and not enforcing lockdowns is bullchit. Well, it still helps but the genie is
out of the bottle by now. We missed the boat back in April of last year.
|
|
|
caj13
Super Nomad
Posts: 1002
Registered: 8-1-2017
Member Is Offline
|
|
so all of the downturns in the curve , you know, what the data shows - following "lockdowns in reality more strict control measures) thats all
BS? the "lockdowns immediately followed by steep decreases in infections and deaths - those are all mirages?
|
|
|
BajaTed
Senior Nomad
Posts: 859
Registered: 5-2-2010
Location: Bajamar
Member Is Offline
|
|
The world infection map is a perplexing scenario.
So many why not type questions for many regions of the world?
Es Todo Bueno
|
|
|
RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
|
|
One of the engineering takeaways from this pandemic is that in most enclosed spaces air quality is still really poorly monitored and controlled. Even
in otherwise very hi tech locations. Aircraft and ships which should have very clean air because its 100% conditioned and filtered often don’t have
good air quality and poor or no monitoring.
Large indoor spaces like stores, offices and hospitals are even worse. Sunlight really is a great disinfectant! The outdoors usually has better air
quality! Like deserts and the beach that most of us here love!
|
|
|
motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | | NZ didn’t suffer from the 1918 flu either! The do suffer from Mommy state government though! Even the Aussies think they’re over the top!
|
Some cultures need a bit of parenting ( and "Mommy states" sounds a bit like denigrating a mother's role....and implies a sexist calibration of
importance). Take a look at how mommies of all species have operated with their offspring....nurturance and guidance....with an occasional redirection
requiring a bit of force and discomfort.
"Freedom" requires responsibility..... and isn't measured by an individual's whims.
Don't believe everything you think....
|
|
|
RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
|
|
Mtoged,
Right words, wrong order!
Responsibility require Freedom, to develop!
|
|
|
motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
|
|
It would appear that way when you are upside down 
Don't believe everything you think....
|
|
|
BajaNomad
|
Thread Moved
3-20-2021 at 11:20 AM |
RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
|
|
motoged,
Europe and much of the world is based on the premise that “Rights not specifically granted to you by “the powers that be” are reserved for
them”
The 10th Amendment in the American Constitution was unique for its time!
“ The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or
to the people.”
It still is unique”! Its also one of the reasons for our success over the years. It has been messy at times but consider that Europe alone has
managed to kill off 100+ million of its citizens in the last 120 years!
I don't think that we’ve done that bad by comparison!
|
|
|
motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
|
|
I will wait and see how "freedom" works out as your country's civil war plays out.....
Don't believe everything you think....
|
|
|
RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
|
|
Motoged,
Well we all know how China deals with it. Don’t we? Especially if you’re not Han! Tank tread marks across your T shirt or “voluntary organ
donations”!
I personally prefer our messy way. Even Joe Biden will be President for at most 4 years!
|
|
|
BornFisher
Super Nomad
Posts: 2107
Registered: 1-11-2005
Location: K-38 Santa Martha/Encinitas
Member Is Offline
|
|
Yeah but there are Zoombies everywhere!!!!
"When you catch a fish, you open the door of happiness."
|
|
|
pacificobob
Super Nomad
Posts: 2306
Registered: 4-23-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
miami has declared an emergency. clearly they made some stupid policy moves.
maybe they have been listening to the science deniers on BN.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3
..
6 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
