Lance S.
Nomad
Posts: 166
Registered: 2-16-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
1930 Baja guide book by David Goldbaum
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=txu.059172132992477&a...
[Edited on 2-27-2024 by Lance S.]
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64842
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Thank you!
A quasi-AAA guidebook, lots of photos and a tiny bit of road log. Much other general information about the peninsula in 1930.
Keep up the search for old Baja books that are online!
|
|
|
Lance S.
Nomad
Posts: 166
Registered: 2-16-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
Page 56. AAOA, American Automobile Owners Association. Maybe a competing organization?
Page 54. Map combines Santa Catarina and Catavina into Santa Catavina 
|
|
|
Lance S.
Nomad
Posts: 166
Registered: 2-16-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
Fascinating idea, could be the meaning of the hispanicized version of the name
.
It appears as Cadabina in the baptismal register for Santa Gertrudis (a result of Consags 1753 expedition?). The two parts of the name appear in
other cochimi place names.
KADAcaamang - San Ignacio
VINAdaco - El Rosario
Kadacaamang - Arroyo of the reeds. We know camaang means Arroyo ( Cabujakaamang - Arroyo of the crags - Santa María) so Kada/Cata might mean reeds.
If only we knew what the Cochimi bina/vina meant.
[Edited on 2-28-2024 by Lance S.]
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64842
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
You guys are trying too hard! LOL
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64842
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Trying too hard to figure out Cataviña or the mistaken name 'Santa Cataviña'. The auto club had many name errors in their earliest maps and books.
San & Santa or Santo = Saint.
Was there a Saint Cataviña?
NO (IMO)
Don Laylander's Native Place Names map has Cataviña as a Cochimí name, but spelled with a K:
[Edited on 2-28-2024 by David K]
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64842
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Padre Linck's Diary of his 1766 expedition of discovery (that found Velicatá as an ideal mission site, Keita [Agua Dulce] as the best water since
leaving San Borja, and confirmed the gulf ends at the Colorado Delta) is illustrated on this map.
Cataviña was not mentioned in Linck's Diary... Only San Luis, believed by historian and map creator Dr. Ronald Ives in 1966, says Ernest Burrus,
S.J., to have been near Rancho Jaraguay (3 miles south of San Ignacito Restaurant).
|
|
|
Lance S.
Nomad
Posts: 166
Registered: 2-16-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
Arnes lets us know when Link crossed arroyo Catavina going north in 1766 when he uses the same verbage to describe it when he returns to explore it in
67 or early 68.
Linck does visit Catavina and mention it by name in his journal on his way back to San Luis from Vellicata but it is a settlement. Evidently he
crossed the arroyo at different places going north and south. The modern Catavina and La Bocana are the obvious suspects.
[Edited on 2-29-2024 by Lance S.]
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64842
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Where can I read that from Padre Arnes?
I will read Linck's southbound log, if I can.
Thanks!
|
|
|
Lance S.
Nomad
Posts: 166
Registered: 2-16-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
Arnes is recorded by by Del Barco, it is either in his chapter on founding Calamajue or the chapter on moving the mission.
So what do you think? If Linck crossed at modern Catavina going north (which would make sense given that he was headed to Agua Dulce) then the
rancheria called Catavina must have been at La Bocana, the old Rancho San Julio, and Linck was following the La Sierrita route to return to San Luis
from Vellicata.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64842
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.  | Arnes is recorded by by Del Barco, it is either in his chapter on founding Calamajue or the chapter on moving the mission.
So what do you think? If Linck crossed at modern Catavina going north (which would make sense given that he was headed to Agua Dulce) then the
rancheria called Catavina must have been at La Bocana, the old Rancho San Julio, and Linck was following the La Sierrita route to return to San Luis
from Vellicata.
|
I am so interested in this... but what book is it?
I have two of del Barco's works: Natural History of Baja California (#43 Dawson Series) and Ethnology and Linguistics of Baja
California (#44 Dawson Series) as well as Linck's Diary of 1766 (#5 Dawson Series) and Clavigero's The History of (Lower) California.
Thanks Lance!
|
|
|
Lance S.
Nomad
Posts: 166
Registered: 2-16-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
https://historicas.unam.mx/publicaciones/publicadigital/libr...
It is a single sentence written by Linck which Arnes (via Del Barco) repeats word for word when he visits Arroyo Catavina the following year. About
there being flowing water but it flows between high rocks so they wouldn't be able to get it out to use for irrigation.
After leaving San Luis on his return trip Linck goes directly to Calamajue and mentions how terrible it is. He is of the opinion that the next
mission should be established on Arroyo San Jose, as expressed earlier in the journal. This is mere months before they try establishing a cabacera
at Calamajue.
They do of course end up establishing a Spanish Rancheria on Arroyo San Jose, San Jose de las Palomas.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64842
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
That link is filled with many PDFs...
The two Dawson volumes I named above are the English translation of your link's PART ONE: NATURAL HISTORY (Dawson #43) and ADDITIONS ON ETHNOLOGICAL
AND LINGUISTIC TOPICS (Dawson #44).
I am going to guess you are quoting from this part (below the previous two): SECOND PART: CHRONICLE OF ANCIENT CALIFORNIA
I believe that may be in Dawson #5, Linck's Diary..? Perhaps in Clavigero's book, as well? I guess you are going to get me to search for those lines,
lol!?
Thanks for your source link...
In reviewing Linck's Diary, I see Kataviña mentioned on the southbound leg (on April 8, 1766).
I think I must conclude a different finding than Prof. Ives map and think perhaps the rancheria of San Luis was near the gulf: San Luis [Gonzaga] Bay,
east of and not south of Cataviña. Not inland, as his map shows.
This especially makes sense if they went to Calamajué after 'San Luis', a direct southbound route. Link arrives at 'San Luis Gonzaga' on April 10.
April 12 at Calamajué, "an unproductive area but with much water" where they rested before pushing on to San Borja, arriving on April 18.
No mention of the water being bad (in my source), as they may have come after a Spring rain which diluted the salty water with fresh rain water..?
This would explain why they founded a mission there just six months later, sadly after the water returned to its typical condition.
Ives was also confused about Tinaja de Yubay's and San Ignacio's (San Ignacito, today) location out from San Borja... So, he could be confused about
San Luis. A side note, the old rancho next to Santa Ynez and Cataviña is named San Luis!
Thanks Lance, I am enjoying this.
[Edited on 3-1-2024 by David K]
|
|
|
Lance S.
Nomad
Posts: 166
Registered: 2-16-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
Your actually not the first person to suggest San Luis was near the bay. Arroyo San Luis. Can you make the times traveled add up that way? It was
the first reliable water when heading from Laguna Chapala to Aqua Dulce.
[Edited on 3-1-2024 by Lance S.]
|
|
|
Lance S.
Nomad
Posts: 166
Registered: 2-16-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
Linck also suggests that Arroyo San Jose is in the vicinity of San Luis when he suggests founding a mission there.
[Edited on 3-1-2024 by Lance S.]
|
|
|
Lance S.
Nomad
Posts: 166
Registered: 2-16-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
Section six page 350. I was wrong though, he doesn't actually repeat Lincks words, just basically says the same thing, he could be talking about
other places along the arroyo.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
