| Pages:
1
2 |
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64842
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
New Sand Driving How-To Video (with a 2WD Van) is well done:
This applies to 4x4 drivers just as well...
From Alex:
|
|
|
JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10537
Registered: 10-3-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Decent video.
Important to know how to connect the kinetic rope between vehicles. They can be very dangerous if not done properly.
Know the tides for the area. Stay out of the surf zone, especially in areas with big tidal swings.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64842
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Well, and just don't get stuck in the first place! Deflate your tires sufficiently to have floatation instead of digging in. Harald is big on 10 psi
for dirt roads and less for sand as needed (BFG All Terrain T/As).
So many of us try to save the work of inflating by either not deflating or deflating enough. I have been guilty of that! When stuck, I always got
myself out by deflating more... easy peezy!
|
|
|
JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10537
Registered: 10-3-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
The rope is generally to pull someone else out.
|
|
|
AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6025
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Retireded
|
|
Although it is not the same as traction boards, a couple of strips of carpet can come in handy. They can either lay flat somewhere, or roll up and
shoved out of the way. They can also be handy in front of a tent, or next to your rig.
I have found no downside to running mud terrain tires on the beach, unless you are spinning them, in which case you are screwed anyway!
The hopping the van did toward the end is why I hate leaf springs!
That wide shovel he carries is good while you are next to the stuck rig, but I carry a long handled narrow blade (like a clam shovel) so I can get
under the rig and get clearance around the frame and/or axels.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
|
|
|
mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18370
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
|
|
It’s generally illegal to drive on beaches in mexico… just saying…
it is usually easier to just park above the beach, and walk the last 5O yards.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
|
|
|
mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18370
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
|
|
If you dampen the sand, you increase the cohesion and angle of friction. The millenial van lifer was silly to show digging out of dry sand when he
was stuck next to ocean. He should have just got a bucket and wet the sand instead of digging out of dry sand.
Also, those traction boards are silly. Those van lifers got floor mats in their car, just throw the floor mats under the tire.
Some of those van lifers travel with astroturf to make a patio, that would work as a traction device too.
[Edited on 3-2-2024 by mtgoat666]
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
|
|
|
Don Pisto
Banned
Posts: 1282
Registered: 8-1-2018
Location: El Pescador
Member Is Offline
Mood: weary like everyone else
|
|
make those bodyguards get out and push! 
there's only two things in life but I forget what they are........
John Hiatt
|
|
|
mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18370
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
|
|
Make the wife, kids, MIL and bougie dogs push too!
Sometimes a little muscle from your friends will get you out faster than fiddling with air pressure, ropes, maxx tracks and youtubes (assuming you
know to stop spinning tires before digging a hole until your axle rests on the ground…)
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
|
|
|
4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4289
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy - always
|
|
except airing down (and he did say how much) everything else was wrong (momentum, spinning tire etc).
Harald Pietschmann
|
|
|
Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 667
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
|
|
That is a nicely edited video presentation, packed with useful information. Overall, the narrator is mostly correct. He should have started with a few
caveats: Don't try driving loose sand without a locking diff. Don't try driving through deep sand if there is not a 4x4 with you, or nearby, to help.
Stay above the high tide line, or risk losing your vehicle.
Not every beach is without hills or dunes, wide enough to make gentle turns, or without drop-offs. Most often, there is a sandy descent to access a
beach or arroyo. That will necessitate climbing back out. Don't drive into a situation if you aren't certain that you can drive out.
I don't wish to diss Alex's instructional video, as it is quite good. Many of the points are subject to debate, so I will start. What may be good
advice for the novice may not apply to the experienced off-roader.
At 2:55 about tire pressure:
The PSI numbers he uses for that van with those tires seems about right. The tires have a wide, rounded, bulge. My BFG KO2 AT tires on a 1-ton van
will will start to buckle/crease at anything less than that, which is definitely not good for the tires. The lighter SUVs, mid-size trucks, Jeeps,
should be able to air down to 10psi without a problem.
3:10 "This rim right here will hold a bead down to zero PSI and you can probably drive on it."
Yes you could, and rim cut the tire, destroying it. And no, that rim will not hold a bead at 2 PSI.
3:26 He advocates driving around on sand at 5 PSI and states that the tire will stay on the rim.
Certainly not with that heavy rig. He has OEM wheels, not aftermarket beadlocks. Perhaps he could get lucky and keep the bead seated if going if going
slow and not turning aggressively. I've lost a bead numerous times in the dunes at 10 PSI in a Jeep half the weight of his van.
At 4:26, he said, "...if you have a 1/2-to or 3/4 ton pickup, it may have come with a locker."
There is a fair chance that a 2WD pickup has an OEM limited-slip rear diff, but unlikely that it is an OEM locker. A few exceptions may include the
Toyota TRD, Chevy/GMC with the G80 diff, Ford Raptor...
5:45 "...one of the biggest detriments to your momentum is spinning your tires."
That seems to be the oft repeated "conventional wisdom", maybe dating back to the Model T (20 hp) or AMC flathead 6 (90 hp). With modern trucks
producing much higher horsepower and torque, that advice is obsolete.
I won't try to argue it here. All you have to do is look at the myriad action videos on sand dunes. That same conventional wisdom promoted bald, or
nearly-bald, street tires. That may have been sage advice when powered by a weak engine. All-terrain tires work well in sand, and more aggressive
mud-terrain tires when there is sufficient power to spin them.
6:03 About turning: "...If you are going too fast, you're going to start pushing sand."
That advice may be true for the conservative driver. Going in to the turn fast, pitching the rear end sideways and exiting the turn at full-throttle
with the rear locking diff hooking up, is another approach. I'm not one to linger in the turn while praying that I don't get stuck. The slightest turn
increases the forward resistance and slows momentum dramatically; it's like throwing out an anchor.
7:45 "First, and the very best tool to have is a shovel."
8:30 "...second biggest getting unstuck asset that you can carry with you... traction boards."
Well, to each their own. I duned 4x4s and sand rails for a couple decades. Never carried, needed, used, or wanted a shovel or traction boards. For
self-extraction, a 48" or 60" Hi-Lift jack with a 1-1/2" thick x 14"-18" plywood base. A much more compact hydraulic jack under the spring perch will
substitute. You're tires have dug holes: Lift the rear of the truck and pile a mound of sand under the rear tires. In less time than your friends can
down a beer, you will drive "downhill" and be unstuck.
10:20 Kinetic rope is better than a tow strap. (paraphrasing)
I don't buy the marketing hype and new term "kinetic rope", nor the outrageous prices. A nylon tow strap or "snatch strap" stretches under load and
accomplish the job. Note that polyester is not as dynamic (stretchy), therefore, not a good substitute. I've used retired nylon climbing ropes, 11mm,
kernmantle construction since the 1970s for extracting stuck vehicles. The original "kinetic ropes" lol. Rather than "kinetic", climbers call them
"dynamic" ropes, which are made to absorb a fall. A fall on a "static" (polyester) rope will maim or kill. A single 11mm strand works to extricate a
light or slightly stuck vehicle. Motorhomes required three strands of 11mm on San Felipe beaches.
11:30 "If you are stuck, dig trenches out in front of your tires."
Reasonable advice if you failed to carry a Hi-Lift jack. Use caution and common-sense with a Hi-Lift.
14:28 Lots of axle wrap, aka: spring wrap, hence the bouncing, on that rig. Probably weak rear shocks are a part of the problem. Fox 2.0 emulsion
shocks would ameliorate some of that. Adding a traction bar is the ultimate solution. Agile Offroad in Santee can order the Fox shocks with the
correct proportioning for weight of the vehicle. https://agileoffroad.com/
Let the rebuttals begin! jajaja
|
|
|
mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18370
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Maderita  | He should have started with a few caveats: Don't try driving loose sand without a locking diff. Don't try driving through deep sand if there is not a
4x4 with you, or nearby, to help. Stay above the high tide line, or risk losing your vehicle.
|
I have successfully broken your rules, and survived! You don't need 4x4 and locker. Many 2wd vehicles do ok in sand by just turning off traction
control.
The van lifer guy was making a vid about driving overloaded 2wd van on sand, a common van amongst van lifers is 2wd…
Sometimes you gotta take risks…
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
|
|
|
AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6025
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Retireded
|
|
My all time favorite beach for camping is six miles south of Deep Creek AK. The tide on my most recent trip was over 23 feet high, and -3.5 low.
At high tide there are several places where it comes all the way up to the base of the cliffs, or it is loose sand traps between the cliffs.
Low tide it is mostly smooth sailing with occasional traps if you are hugging the waterline! You definitely do not want to get
stuck between tides!
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
|
|
|
AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6025
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Retireded
|
|
Tire choice depends on your load too!
I am currently running BFG TA KO2s, 265/75 load range E tires on my Isuzu Trooper. Although I don't need a real truck tire, I went with that size
over the softer 265/70 tires that were on it to get a slightly taller tire with better sidewall protection from Baja thorns.
I agree with Maderita that they should not be run as a low PSI very far, or fast because the stiffer sidewalls do heat up faster than the P rated SUV
tires do.
An analogy that comes to mind is that you would choose a different kind of glove working with wire and rebar than you would driving nails or screws,
and yet another kind for concrete.
I am happy with the way the KO2s are wearing, and have had no flats, but they just don't have the grip that the more flexible tires did.
One more thing, rubber compound matters. I have run both Goodyear Wranglers, and BFG tires in the past, and would choose BFG for long life, but
Wranglers for grip in wet or icy conditions.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
|
|
|
JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10537
Registered: 10-3-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | If you dampen the sand, you increase the cohesion and angle of friction. The millenial van lifer was silly to show digging out of dry sand when he
was stuck next to ocean. He should have just got a bucket and wet the sand instead of digging out of dry sand.
Also, those traction boards are silly. Those van lifers got floor mats in their car, just throw the floor mats under the tire.
Some of those van lifers travel with astroturf to make a patio, that would work as a traction device too.
[Edited on 3-2-2024 by mtgoat666] |
Or instead of taking your little bucket back and forth to the ocean you could just unrack your 3 ton offroad jack and lift the truck up in less than 1
minute. 
|
|
|
JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10537
Registered: 10-3-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Maderita |
5:45 "...one of the biggest detriments to your momentum is spinning your tires."
That seems to be the oft repeated "conventional wisdom", maybe dating back to the Model T (20 hp) or AMC flathead 6 (90 hp). With modern trucks
producing much higher horsepower and torque, that advice is obsolete.
I won't try to argue it here. All you have to do is look at the myriad action videos on sand dunes. That same conventional wisdom promoted bald, or
nearly-bald, street tires. That may have been sage advice when powered by a weak engine. All-terrain tires work well in sand, and more aggressive
mud-terrain tires when there is sufficient power to spin them.
|
The 1st thing that came to mind was watching that Ram TRX pull the camper out of the mud at burning man when everyone else couldn't even get their
vehicles out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qaltpp08yNM
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64842
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
My Experiences after 50 years of sand driving finds...
You guys are a tough lot... at least Alex (like Harald on his website) made an attempt to educate or at least show how he can cross sand in his heavy
2WD van. Forget his errors about factory lockers or one tire spinning open diffs (but that is what is observed)... the point is sand driving...
It is all about air pressure.
Long ago, a family group from Vista, CA used to drive their big motorhomes right out onto the deep, bottomless sand of Shell Island.. even a big
Lincoln sedan... I was amazed... and had to meet them. No 4WD, just the largest tires the motorhomes could have with air pressure dropped.
Get whatever tires you want, but get the biggest ones that will fit your rig without rubbing. Get ones with a wide (or tall) sidewall; not the bling,
skinny sidewall, wide tread tires.
Bald, non-aggressive, highway tires actually work best... because you want to float on, not dig into the sand. Of course we want good tires for Baja
off roading, so all terrain style is the most common. If they have a 3-ply sidewall (BFG), the pressure will need to be less in order to achieve
floatation.
Mud-terrain, aggressive off road tires also need more air removed to float on sand. Ask me how I know! The mud terrain tires look great, but in sand
they became my truck's "grave diggers" at least at the pressure my previous all terrain tires floated at (15 psi). At 8-10 psi is what the 'grave
diggers' (Cooper Discoverer STT) would float at.
I am now on my third set of Hankook DynaPro ATM tires, (265/75-16") which have been the best all around tire for my Tacomas: Quiet highway driving,
great in rocks, mud, snow, but excellent in sand. They float at 18 psi!
I have never needed a winch, a pull, traction boards, rescue mats (carpet), or a big shovel when in sand. If I begin to bog down or have tire spin, I
stop and let more air out, and drive away. Yes, if you do dig in, clear away any built up sand from in front of the tires, so there is no resistance
to rolling ahead.
It is all about air pressure.
Naturally, a fast air pump will get you back on the hard roads faster... I have had good luck with the relatively inexpensive MV-50 pump. Any that
clips directly to the battery will be faster than ones that use a cigarette lighter... three times faster. My MV-50 adds 6 psi:min. to my truck tires.
(about 3 minutes per tire, 15-18 psi up to 34 psi) >> https://superflowair.com/products/mv-50-air-compressor-1
|
|
|
4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4289
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy - always
|
|
dynamic/kinetic rope fail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrIR_4IPIbk&t=617s
Harald Pietschmann
|
|
|
stillnbaja
Nomad
Posts: 409
Registered: 5-4-2023
Member Is Offline
|
|
wow! and be careful where you pull from.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64842
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
You don't need a pull (or a rope) if you take out more of the tire's air... SIMPLE!
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
