BajaNomad

U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

Mexicali_Kid - 1-14-2009 at 10:11 AM

Mexico is one of two countries that "bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse," according to a report by the U.S. Joint Forces Command on worldwide security threats.

The command's "Joint Operating Environment (JOE 2008)" report, which contains projections of global threats and potential next wars, puts Pakistan on the same level as Mexico. "In terms of worse-case scenarios for the Joint Force and indeed the world, two large and important states bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse: Pakistan and Mexico. ...
...
Despite such reports, El Pasoan Veronica Callaghan, a border business leader, said she keeps running into people in the region who "are in denial about what is happening in Mexico."

http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_11444354

DianaT - 1-14-2009 at 10:19 AM

It is probably my computer, but I keep getting the El Paso Times with all the headers, but blank for the article.

What date was this---maybe I can get to it another way---I would like to read the full ariticle.

Thanks
Diane

BMG - 1-14-2009 at 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jdtrotter
It is probably my computer, but I keep getting the El Paso Times with all the headers, but blank for the article.

What date was this---maybe I can get to it another way---I would like to read the full ariticle.

Thanks
Diane


See if this link works for you. El Paso Times

DianaT - 1-14-2009 at 10:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BMG
Quote:
Originally posted by jdtrotter
It is probably my computer, but I keep getting the El Paso Times with all the headers, but blank for the article.

What date was this---maybe I can get to it another way---I would like to read the full ariticle.

Thanks
Diane


See if this link works for you. El Paso Times


Thanks--found it---maybe I was not patient enough before. It is an interesting article.

Diane

JESSE - 1-14-2009 at 11:25 AM

That story is a joke.

David K - 1-14-2009 at 11:50 AM

Jesse... on another thread a Nomad wanted to learn some history on the Insurgentes/ Constitucion area... You or family members were north of there at Santo Domingo, yes? I will give the link to that thread...

... It was Pam... Here's the thread if you can help: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=36322

[Edited on 1-14-2009 by David K]

BMG - 1-14-2009 at 12:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
That story is a joke.


The JOE2008 report (2.4mb pdf file) does contain the following:
Quote:

In terms of worst-case scenarios for the Joint Force and indeed the world, two large and important states bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse: Pakistan and Mexico. Some forms of collapse in Pakistan would carry with it the likelihood of a sustained violent and bloody civil and sectarian war, an even bigger haven for violent extremists, and the question of what would happen to its nuclear weapons. That “perfect storm” of uncertainty alone might require the engagement of U.S. and coalition forces into a situation of immense complexity and danger with no guarantee they could gain control of the weapons and with the real possibility that a nuclear weapon might be used.

The Mexican possibility may seem less likely, but the government, its politicians, police, and judicial infrastructure are all under sustained assault and pressure by criminal gangs and drug cartels. How that internal conflict turns out over the next several years will have a major impact on the stability of the Mexican state. Any descent by the Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone.

mtgoat666 - 1-14-2009 at 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BMG
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
That story is a joke.


The JOE2008 report (2.4mb pdf file) does contain the following:
Quote:

In terms of worst-case scenarios for the Joint Force and indeed the world, two large and important states bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse: Pakistan and Mexico. Some forms of collapse in Pakistan would carry with it the likelihood of a sustained violent and bloody civil and sectarian war, an even bigger haven for violent extremists, and the question of what would happen to its nuclear weapons. That “perfect storm” of uncertainty alone might require the engagement of U.S. and coalition forces into a situation of immense complexity and danger with no guarantee they could gain control of the weapons and with the real possibility that a nuclear weapon might be used.

The Mexican possibility may seem less likely, but the government, its politicians, police, and judicial infrastructure are all under sustained assault and pressure by criminal gangs and drug cartels. How that internal conflict turns out over the next several years will have a major impact on the stability of the Mexican state. Any descent by the Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone.


These ridiculous Dr Strangelove doomsday scenarios of military intelligence (oxymarooonic) analysts and pentagon brass that model themselves after General Ripper and General Turguidson are nonsense that only right wingnit radio pundits believe. BillM will be along shortly to provide caveman validation of the theory of impending chaos on our doorstep. Yo Bill!

Yes we can!

Peace out!

Bajahowodd - 1-14-2009 at 12:17 PM

So all we need to do now is find those weapons of mass destruction South of the Border and we can invade!

Agree with Jesse, totally. I think that folks in El Paso, in particular are exposed to much more of the stories of near border violence, as Juarez makes Tijuana appear to be Oz.

Corruption is endemic through all societies. One usually finds that it increases as one works down the ladder from first world to third world countries. There is virtually no comparison between Pakistan and Mexico. Pakistan is sectarian and tribal. Mexico still has the social glue of Catholicism. If there is any threat to Mexico, it is probably the ease at which assault weapons and other arms make their way from North of the border Southward into the hands of the bad guys.

Woooosh - 1-14-2009 at 12:18 PM

The Drudge Report has this link to this article in red letters- so the servers are getting swamped.


"Any descent by Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone." Like what? Everyone that can get across to the USA is already there. Do they think Mexicans will overrun the border POE and just flood into San Diego? Well, maybe that is possible...

And as this "joke" is being read by us... the Pesos hits 14.18 to the dollar! It's down more than 40% in a very short period of time.

It's a "perfect storm" with no country able to help Mexico right now- even if Mexico could admit it has deep problems and needs the help... Calderon is only talking "ecomonic stimulus" while sending 2000 more troops to Juarez today. He's directed everyone to present Mexico in a positive light. IMHO Martial Law is next.

I haven't read the 200 new laws being considered to fight the narcos here- but I'm sure civil liberites (what few exist here) will be the first to go- they always are.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jan/13/n11019116...

Destabilizing factors??? Can someone name three things that are stable in Mexico right now?... the pesos, education?, oil revenue?, inflation?, crime? ...

[Edited on 1-14-2009 by Woooosh]

[Edited on 1-14-2009 by Woooosh]

[Edited on 1-14-2009 by Woooosh]

[Edited on 1-14-2009 by Woooosh]

Bajahowodd - 1-14-2009 at 12:24 PM

Methinks the sinking peso is more worrisome.

BajaDove - 1-14-2009 at 01:02 PM

Are they saying if the politicians fail the cartels are going to take the country down? If they don't kill each other off first, don't they have all the money? Aren't they suppose to be generous because they want loyalty? Why can't they buy Mexico out of trouble? The US doesn't need to worry.

Woooosh - 1-14-2009 at 02:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaDove
Are they saying if the politicians fail the cartels are going to take the country down? If they don't kill each other off first, don't they have all the money? Aren't they suppose to be generous because they want loyalty? Why can't they buy Mexico out of trouble? The US doesn't need to worry.


The doves are the first ones to be eaten alive in war.

If the narcos wanted control of the whole country and Calderon dead they would have done it already. They arrested his top secret service detail for working with the cartels. There is no one capapble or worthy to fix the problem and the "la Raza" mexican pride metality is still in complete denial.

I don't think the narcos want it to get that far (failed state) because it's just too much work to run a country that is totally corrupt and stuck on stupid. It was stuck on stupid so long that the next step is down, not up. There is no upside. The police are uneducated pawns, the prosecutors and all levels above them are PROVEN corrupt- right up to the presidents own securty detail. Where do you start?

If someone could just find the starting point they could fight back- but there isn't one.

But please continue to visit TJ and Mexico because Calderon says so. When it all hits the fan- I'd rather you be their victim than me.

BajaGringo - 1-14-2009 at 02:16 PM

Woooosh - I am curious though if you see the falling peso becoming an even bigger threat the current state of insecurity if it continues to drop?

I think it is an interesting topic...

Woooosh - 1-14-2009 at 06:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Woooosh - I am curious though if you see the falling peso becoming an even bigger threat the current state of insecurity if it continues to drop?

I think it is an interesting topic...


Glenn, IMHO I don't think the two can be seperated at this late point. They happenend independenlty (crime wave expansion and the economic downturn/peso devaluaton) but created a downward sprial that is hard to pull out of- they will feed off each other until the spiral hits the ground. I think an important third factor is that Mexico isn't alone in her econimc troubles- every country is vulnerable right now and no one can help when they are all so fragile.

The world economy and security situation is fragile because it's built on pure speculation and manipulation. Even chest-thumpers like Chavez and Putin are eating their hawkish words of last summer. What did a barrel of crude close at today compared to last summer? Ukraine simply turned the tap off on Russian exports (if was naiive of the EU to think gas flow would never be disrupted when 90% of the pipelines run through the Ukraine from Russia- and that region is a powder keg since the whole Georgia thing. What happens if Russia uses force against the Ukraine to get gas flowing to Europe? How quick will they forget history? What side would everyone support? And would anyone even notice if Mexico disappeared while the EU was freezing to death for lack of gas?

The whole political/economic world is so fragile. The world allowed crude oil speculation to create political power that no longer exists. The world allowed financial wizards to turn the stock exchange and banking systems into an unregulated casino- where earnings (P/E) valuations have no correlation to a companies true value or it's stock price. And then we built our retirement systems (401ks) and pension funds around both these sick animals. Does anyone really think the $7 Billion in risky USA foreclosure mortgage loans caused this whole mess- or was it just the excuse needed to get it all out in the open a $Trillion later.

This all applies to Mexico because how can Mexico create economic growth with low crude prices and declining exports worldwide? It can't and the peso is the victim. I don't think the peso will crash- but it will fall to a level that matches Mexico's ability to raise capital for investments and give a return on that investment- competing in the world economy. When people run to the Peso for safety instead of the dollar, euro or whatever- it will stabilize. More jobs lost in the meantime is more lost opportunites for Mexicans.

The USA market system self-adjusted home prices downward by almost 40%- Have you seen that in Mexico? Nope- they just board them up, lay everyone off and wait it out. They were using advanced deposits to get that far and so what if the project takes another decade to finish (unless it was your deposit). In the USA jobs are being lost, but companies are changing what they make and how and where they make them. Won't happen here. When peole lose their jobs they lose hope, they lose faith in what used to be true and crime prospers. In strong economic times crime takes hold slowly- in hard times crime rises to the surface IMHO.

Your thoughts Mr. Campbell?

[Edited on 1-15-2009 by Woooosh]

BajaGringo - 1-14-2009 at 06:03 PM

Great points - making me think here...

:?::?::?:

Paulclark - 1-14-2009 at 06:11 PM

Is the peso getting weaker or is the USA dollar getting stronger against all world currencies? Look at the Canadian dollar -- It has dropped substantially -- and the Euro? Have any Mexican banks failed or in danger of failing like multiple US banks have or are the banking regulation realistic and conducive to a strong banking system? -- food for thought.

BajaGringo - 1-14-2009 at 06:13 PM

Don't confuse me - I am still pondering Woooosh's points...

:lol::lol::lol:

robrt8 - 1-14-2009 at 07:23 PM

Big problems with your speculation, Mr Wooosh.

A lower peso makes Mexico's products equally more competitive.
The travel industry, a huge employer, becomes more competitive.
And don't say people aren't traveling to Mexico, because they are. Just maybe not your neck of the wooooods.

BajaGringo - 1-14-2009 at 07:29 PM

But no matter how competitive the travel industry is, if folks don't feel safe to come what good is it???

woody with a view - 1-14-2009 at 08:47 PM

Quote:

Mexico still has the social glue of Catholicism.


so all those altar boys gotta be smiling...

Hook - 1-14-2009 at 09:27 PM

Jesse, please let us in on the "joke".

It may not end up as anarchy, but it could certainly end up as martial law for a prolonged period. Neither is a scenario I want to live through down here.

Bajahowodd - 1-14-2009 at 11:59 PM

The current drop in the peso is strickly the result of currency speculators. It's all about hedging. Nothing substantial has happened in the Mexican economy to have caused such a drop. Similarly, when the peso was at 9.5 last year, just think about it. Why would it be 14-1 eight months later. World currency is in the casino known as Wall Street, and is traded just like it was in a Vegas casino. It's the same bastards that drove the price of oil up to $146 a barrel. All about making their own personal fortune.

Bajafun777 - 1-15-2009 at 02:33 AM

Good points and some going in the right direction to what our economy is doing. Our ability to pump money into banking, auto companies, extending unemployment benefits, the housing foreclosure families support monies and public works project will help. The loans to banks and auto industry was something that did not sit well with many of us but if we did not do it our economy would have kept spinnning downward. It is totally wrong that these individuals driving the "Bear" market and buying up businesses knowing damn well they were solid companies that can be downsized and brought right back up. The damn tighting of banking money credit lines killed these businesses abilities to keep their stock and employees moving in the right direction and down the tubes we went. Yea, let's trust these slimy bankers that ran interest rates up to almost 30% on people because of some fabricated ratio they used claiming it gave them the right to do so. Oh, let's us not forget the overhauling of the bankrupcy laws that these greedy rich B_____s were pushing through on Joe SixPack just trying to make a living and have a few things to enjoy with his family. Loan sharking but since they were bankers in suits and paying off Bush's group of idiots it was OK!! Damn mess because they screamed about government regulators watching over them and Yes the Democrats went right along with it, as they too are corrupt thugs wanting to stuff their pockets like that creep in Chicago. I long for a third party canidate to see where it goes. I hope that the incoming President can get everybody moving in a direction that rebuilds our manufacturing plants, retrains our workers, get on with developing new alternative fuels and cars, trucks, etc, that are also more fuel efficient. T.J. Boone may or may not be out for himself but he is right that natural gas is something we have plenty of and let the Arabs at some point eat their damn sand!!! They hate our guts anyway. Mexico has never extended a lot of money to anyone on loans you had to have most of the monies you needed to even get them to step up to the plate. Mexico is definately our problem too, as we cannot let it sink because our borders would really be over-run. I do not want to see our Armies having to start getting super aggressive to stop a rush into this Country. Like most of you my retirement dollars I had in my retirement fund accounts have been "rode hard and definately put away wet" with about 30% lost in value right as I am getting ready to retire. Ah, what the hell I still have the units and buying more units at a cheaper price just need to ride the storm. Hang in there and like the "DoomSayers," we really do not know what will happen but I think this will take about 3 years to even start to stablize. The stock market during this time period will just go up and down but not to such a degree it is right now if the indicators hold as they are doing now to some degree. We do not need another War during this time. We need to put money into Public Works and get this Country running on all of it cylinders, right??? Take care and if your not watching the news it appears that all of the Countries crime is up. Nobody wants to see their young ones or their loved ones strave, sleep on streets, etc. So, lets hope that those that are unemployed it will not be for a long time, as desperation sinks in and that causes nothing but bad things for everybody. I have HOPE in the United States and I have the desire to help do whatever it takes to help get it moving again, as I know all of you want to do also. I really need a South of the Border Fun Time soon. Take care, bajafun777

fishbuck - 1-15-2009 at 03:36 AM

Sudden Collapse? I doubt anything will happen in a sudden in Mexico.
But if it did how would it effect Baja anyway?
So you are camping or at a hotel. What do you think will happen?
Maybe you own a home there. What will happen if there is a collapse.
Here is my guess.

Nothing will change!

The Gull - 1-15-2009 at 07:10 AM

How many US states could be made out of Mexico?

Just think...no more border waits, no more fideocomisos...

are there other advantages??

TMW - 1-15-2009 at 08:25 AM

I just need two states actually territories, Baja and Baja Sur with me in charge.

robrt8 - 1-15-2009 at 08:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
But no matter how competitive the travel industry is, if folks don't feel safe to come what good is it???


Before the drop, tourism to Mexico had increased by 5% in spite of the narco stories. I don't know of any stats since then.

The peso looks like it's holding well at its current rate. Mexico is in a far better financial position than it was in the mid-90's. I'd love to see 13-14/dollar hold. Good for me.

DENNIS - 1-15-2009 at 08:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by robrt8
.

The peso looks like it's holding well at its current rate.


http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDMXN=X&t=5d&l=on&a...

DENNIS - 1-15-2009 at 08:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by The Gull
How many US states could be made out of Mexico?

Just think...no more border waits, no more fideocomisos...

are there other advantages??


Now wait a minute Gull. If everybody between Central America and Canada is a U.S. citizen, who's gonna wear all those leaf blowers?

Woooosh - 1-15-2009 at 08:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paulclark
Is the peso getting weaker or is the USA dollar getting stronger against all world currencies? Look at the Canadian dollar -- It has dropped substantially -- and the Euro? Have any Mexican banks failed or in danger of failing like multiple US banks have or are the banking regulation realistic and conducive to a strong banking system? -- food for thought.


When one currency gets strong another gets weak. It has too- the same amount of money is just changing forms. They get strong or weak depending on the coutries ability to function in the world eeconomy and produce a return on that investment. The return can or cannot be speculative as well though.

Woooosh - 1-15-2009 at 09:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by robrt8
Big problems with your speculation, Mr Wooosh.

A lower peso makes Mexico's products equally more competitive.
The travel industry, a huge employer, becomes more competitive.
And don't say people aren't traveling to Mexico, because they are. Just maybe not your neck of the wooooods.



In yesterdays economy some of that is very true but not in todays...

"A lower peso makes Mexico's products equally more competitive. " Only when they are producing (assembling) things. When there is no demand there is no need for supply or thecost of maintaining inventory. Mexico is an "assembly plant" not an entreprenuer. When the world needs products, companies come to Mexico to build the factories they need staffed with cheap labor. But what happens when demand falls? No need for the high output and that's what we are seeing today in Mexico. Assembly Factories closing down and thousands losing their jobs.

Another new point to enter into this equation is that Mexico is getting outbid by China and others for cheaper countries for labor. They were losing jobs to china before world demand for all products slowed- and what impact does a direct shipping link to the Colonet terminal from China put on the future demand for mexican labor and downward pressure on mexican wages?

"The travel industry, a huge employer, becomes more competitive. And don't say people aren't traveling to Mexico, because they are. Just maybe not your neck of the wooooods. " The only peolpe saying Meican touism isn't hurting are the travel agents, realtors and the Mexican government (because Calderon just ordered them all to put on a happy face). No one is traveling ANYWHERE as much as they were in the good economy- it's not just Mexican tourism numbers that are falling. Cruise ships will still dock in Mexcio for sure. But tourism is dropping most where the narco crime is expanding most. That's also where most of the people and tourism is (Mexico City aside). The Yucatan is safer and more isolated- but can't support the whole Mexcian toursit economy itself.

People aren't going to Las Vegas or Disneyland either though- so don't get defensive about Mexican tourist numbers. I would challenge anyone to tell me why and how Mexican tourism would increase when tourism to every other destination in the world is falling hard. Narco crime aside even. World tourism is on hold- people just don't have or won't spend the money until they are feeling secure about their economic futures... that why tavel is on "disposable income". The downward economic spiral is continuing (see previous post) so don't expect people to spend willy-nilly for a few years.

If everything else was equal, and the peso went to 14- we would be stampeded by tourists! It's the other factors that took the helium out of the balloon. Mexico is on sale and so is everywhere else- if you have disposable income. Look what happened to retail sales in the USA for December- even with 50% off no one was shopping. It's all bad news for everyone in every country. Mexico is just a flea on the tail that wags the dog.

And today the pesos is 14.40 as I type.

[Edited on 1-15-2009 by Woooosh]

[Edited on 1-15-2009 by Woooosh]

robrt8 - 1-15-2009 at 09:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by robrt8
.

The peso looks like it's holding well at its current rate.


http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDMXN=X&t=5d&l=on&a...


Try this one. A few days of trading will always look more erratic:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDMXN=X&t=3m&l=on&a...

Woooosh - 1-15-2009 at 10:09 AM

Talk about thread Timing.... here comes Chavez walking on both knees. Didn't he just "nationalize" everything he could get his fat little fingers on? Mexcio is only stuck on stupid- Chavez has his picture next to the word in the dictionary. He literally stole the oil fields and is now begging the same companies to come back and forgive him...

He does look pretty in his Mr Congeniality sash though.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/15/america/15venez.php

[Edited on 1-15-2009 by Woooosh]

[Edited on 1-15-2009 by Woooosh]

Woooosh - 1-15-2009 at 10:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by The Gull
How many US states could be made out of Mexico?

Just think...no more border waits, no more fideocomisos...

are there other advantages??


I'd buy iceland on the cheap first. That economy just collapsed and they have all the free geothermal energy any super power could ever want.

You can't give away Mexico right now. Even Mexican don't want it. You would have to totally isolate it for repairs to be made. Not even Putin would take Mexico.

You can begin a plan to save Mexico if you could start with reforming the educational system. Then you could have a police force (the first line of security) that completed grade school at least. Problem with the educaton system here is the strong teachers Union- who will close the borders and protest for their right to sell a teaching position to another unqualified teacher at the expense of young peoples educations. The highest bidder gets the teaching job- SOS again.

[Edited on 1-15-2009 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 1-15-2009 at 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by robrt8

Try this one. A few days of trading will always look more erratic:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDMXN=X&t=3m&l=on&a...


Thanks for that. On a day to day basis, I use this:
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency-converter?amt=1&from=U...

Much less confusing.

DianaT - 1-15-2009 at 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh

You can begin a plan to save Mexico if you could start with reforming the educational system. Then you could have a police force (the first line of security) that completed grade school at least. Problem with the educaton system here is the strong teachers Union- who will close the borders and protest for their right to sell a teaching position to another unqualified teacher at the expense of young peoples educations. The highest bidder gets the teaching job- SOS again.

[Edited on 1-15-2009 by Woooosh]


I know the public school system in Mexico is far from perfect. However, in Calexico, I had many, many students who were educated in the public school system in Mexico up to the seventh grade. They were very well educated and usually very good students.

Diane

Woooosh - 1-15-2009 at 10:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by fishbuck
Sudden Collapse? I doubt anything will happen in a sudden in Mexico.
But if it did how would it effect Baja anyway?
So you are camping or at a hotel. What do you think will happen?
Maybe you own a home there. What will happen if there is a collapse.
Here is my guess.

Nothing will change!


Not a pretty scenario. The weak will trample the strong. The pesos would devalue more (In Zimbabwe it takes a $4 Billion note now to buy a loaf of bread!) Anything of value would be taken by force by the lawless. The USA would airlift american citizens out (Saigon nightmares anyone?) and the US navy would use Mexican ports for voluntary evactuations.

Those Americans who stay behind to protect property will need lots more ammo and to band together with like-minded Americans and Mexicans as well. It would look like somalia or many other lawless, leaderless African nations right now. It's not really that far away.

If you are worried about this- you really should head north today, because all that is happening now, maybe just not in your area yet.

L Love PVR, but ready to cave in ?

wingit - 1-16-2009 at 07:31 AM

Man I love the people down there,
but is the place ready to cave in ?
Is everyone in the world a theif or warring ?
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/mexico_collapse/2009/01/14/...

DENNIS - 1-16-2009 at 08:45 AM

Welcome to BajaNomad, wingit. It's something I should probably know but, it's too early to decipher. What or where is PVR?

BajaGringo - 1-16-2009 at 11:22 AM

Last I heard it stood for personal video recorder.

:?::?::?:

Ken Bondy - 1-16-2009 at 11:55 AM

Used to be the three-letter airport code for Puerto Vallarta. Maybe it still is.

wingit - 1-16-2009 at 12:07 PM

sorry, Puerto Vallarta
I'm guessing the tourist towns far from the border are better.
A sailing forum talks about Pirates and many more problems in S-America,
But they don't have the tourism that PVR does per town.
A friend living in PVR for 20 years would not keep his wife there if it was as bad as some of these articles.I'm not an alarmist, I just think this should be identified as a border drug problem.
I blame the drug users too, they are surely selfish Anti-Human.
I belong to the Skywagon club where we have members flying small planes down to Baja every year.The drug guys stealing planes is a problem too.
happy day

Bajahowodd - 1-16-2009 at 12:14 PM

wingit- We've already hashed that Joint Forces report on another thread. I haven't been down to PV for about eighteen months. People I know who live there haven't mentioned any great change in the civil order. Just as with any big town, there will be occasional criminal activity. From friends I know in the travel industry, discretionary travel is way down. Places with high concentrations of time shares are faring better, as people are more likely to redeem their investment.

DENNIS - 1-16-2009 at 01:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wingit
sorry, Puerto Vallarta


Thanks, wingit.

You too, Ken.

Where's Capt. Mike lately? He and wingit could probably have some good discussions.

Woooosh - 1-16-2009 at 02:12 PM

Elton John just moved down there so it is safe for gay millionaires at least. Maybe he has armed houesboys though

tripledigitken - 1-16-2009 at 02:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Bondy
Used to be the three-letter airport code for Puerto Vallarta. Maybe it still is.



Should have known it was that dreaded Pilotspeak again!:lol::lol::lol::coolup::lol::lol::lol:

Bajahowodd - 1-16-2009 at 03:22 PM

PVR. LTO. SJD.