BajaNomad

Old Airplane and More on Isla Guadalupe

DianaT - 9-28-2011 at 10:29 PM

These photos are posted here with the permission of our good friend Oscar Salazar. Oscar is a great young biologist who has worked at the research station on Isla Guadalupe.

Here are just a couple of his photos --- they make us want to be there!

For the pilots around here, what vintage is this plane?





And just some nice photos of a beautiful place















And just for fun, a photo we took of Oscar having fun in Bahia Asuncion when he was there working on the local islands.



He is one of the young people who give so much hope for the future of the environment in Baja.





[Edited on 9-29-2011 by DianaT]

goldhuntress - 9-28-2011 at 10:45 PM

Very cool. thanks!! I know what you mean about wanting to be there.:yes:

Roberto - 9-28-2011 at 10:54 PM

Nice shots. Isla Guadalupe is a very interesting place. A small island, it even has different micro-climates that are different in temperatures and rainfall/humidity, due to the steep mountains and it's position in the ocean.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadalupe_Island

Many go there to see the White Sharks, but fishing for many species is amazing there too. Years back I mounted an expedition to go out there on my boat with two other buddy boats from San Quintin. Had a 30' twin diesel at the time, but on the week of the departure the weather pattern just wasn't in our favor, and it's a long way out there for something to go wrong, so I made the call and forfeited the trip. Same thing happened to another ex-Nomad, Ofer.

I still intend to go, probably on a San Diego long range boat like the Shogun, but there is no way I'm getting in the water. I'll leave that to Ken Bondy.

I'd love to explore the island itself, but my understanding is that it's not generally permitted.

Answers on the airplane are on an old Nomad thread:

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=42416


[Edited on 9-29-2011 by Roberto]

Stickers - 9-28-2011 at 11:17 PM

Very sad viewing that old thread with happy smiling Carlos Fiesta. Also posts from the always entertaining and now stealth Fishbuck and where has Captain Mike been?



.

vandy - 9-29-2011 at 07:16 AM

The plane is a Lockheed Lodestar, a smuggler's best friend.

Ken Bondy - 9-29-2011 at 07:40 AM

Spectacular Guadalupe photos Diana!! That's a very special place, beautiful, mysterious. And the big white sharks cruising just offshore certainly adds to the scene!! Here's a view of the island approaching from the north:

larryC - 9-29-2011 at 08:00 AM

As pretty as the island is now, I have read old accounts of when the island was first discovered and it is desribed as being lush with vegetation and flocks of parrots. Since the goats were dropped off on the island over the years they have pretty much denuded it. Really great diving around there.
Larry

Ken Bondy - 9-29-2011 at 08:20 AM

Diane's post brought back some nice Guadalupe memories. Sorry for the hijack Diane,



tripledigitken - 9-29-2011 at 08:47 AM

Great photos! Would love to spend a few days photographing the island. Are there outfitters that offer trips?

David K - 9-29-2011 at 08:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Stickers
Very sad viewing that old thread with happy smiling Carlos Fiesta. Also posts from the always entertaining and now stealth Fishbuck and where has Captain Mike been?



.



Is that Carlos Fiesta sitting on the wrecked plane? I thought I saw these photos before, but I couldn't put my finger on it! Getting old sucks!

DianaT - 9-29-2011 at 09:48 AM

No David, that is not Carlos---

Larry, yes goats were a huge problem. Here is a link to an article from Jon P. Rebman, curator of botany at the San Diego Natural History Museum from May of 2010. He had sworn he would never go back, but he did and was glad he did. The Mexican government along with a non-profit got rid of the goats, dog packs and were working on the cats. Old plants were returning.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=45777#pid5158...

And here is a link to more of Ken Bondy's great photos ---crazy man swims with the Great White Sharks. :biggrin:

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=46626#pid5300...

I know that access is limited---not sure what it would take, but I can ask a few questions.

We got to know Oscar while he and a group were working on the Asuncion and San Roque Island the last couple of years----he will be back ---- these biologists are a great group of well trained and educated young people who represent the best hope for protecting the environment in many areas. And while they work hard, they are also a lot of fun when not working!

Here are a couple more of Oscar's photos that show a little more of the diversity that Roberto mentioned and the research station on the island.





One he calls a monument to the goats.









[Edited on 9-29-2011 by DianaT]

baitcast - 9-29-2011 at 09:59 AM

I fished the Lupe in 1963,four days of wonderment,those clouds would form every morning and roll in from the top,the lost world very errie place,their was talk of Godzilla in those fog banks.

Bluefin on the south-end and large Yellows on the north,hooked two of the biggest somethings of my life:lol:

The island should be on everyones bucket list.
Rob

BajaBlanca - 9-29-2011 at 10:05 AM

is there fresh water on the island ?

not much time sadly

capt. mike - 9-29-2011 at 10:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Stickers
Very sad viewing that old thread with happy smiling Carlos Fiesta. Also posts from the always entertaining and now stealth Fishbuck and where has Captain Mike been?



.


trying to finish a job.
check in every week or so, or less.

thot it looked like an old A26 or B25.

lockheed sounds about right but that narrow nose??

BajaWarrior - 9-29-2011 at 11:37 AM

Thanks for posting Diana, honestly I never knew this island existed so the information about this "new place" is a Baja bonus for me...

DianaT - 9-29-2011 at 11:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaWarrior
Thanks for posting Diana, honestly I never knew this island existed so the information about this "new place" is a Baja bonus for me...


It does look like a beautiful and interesting place to visit.

BTW---did I ever tell you that we regret having sold that generator? There have been more than one time we could have used it. Don't know what we thinking at the time! Oh well, at least it went to good home. Tell it hello and I hope it is still working well for you. :biggrin:

BajaWarrior - 9-29-2011 at 11:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaWarrior
Thanks for posting Diana, honestly I never knew this island existed so the information about this "new place" is a Baja bonus for me...


It does look like a beautiful and interesting place to visit.

BTW---did I ever tell you that we regret having sold that generator? There have been more than one time we could have used it. Don't know what we thinking at the time! Oh well, at least it went to good home. Tell it hello and I hope it is still working well for you. :biggrin:


It is working very well in fact.

It runs every minute we are at our Beach House on a bulk 6 gallon fuel tank and there are literally thousands of hours on it now. We have a second one as well and the use is split evenly as far as hours go. Generators get real unhappy if they're not run regularly even reliable Hondas.

The bulk fuel tank is now located in another area of the garage, this was the experimental phase and as you can see the exhaust is directed to a pipe which runs beyond the height of our two story home.


[Edited on 9-29-2011 by BajaWarrior]

dtbushpilot - 9-29-2011 at 11:53 AM

So, if someone wanted to take a trip to the island and do some fishing, exploring, camping or finding accommodations (lodging, food etc.) would it be possible? Do you need special permission to go there? How do you get it and from whom?.....dt

Roberto - 9-29-2011 at 12:17 PM

DT, I don't know the answer to your question. What I do know, is that the San Diego boats that go there (Long Range Sportfishing boats), do not have permission to put people ashore. The Shogun out of San Diego (http://www.shogunsportfishing.com/) does lots of expeditions, that are not for fishing, like to Clipperton and even the Revillagigedos, though I'm not sure if they still do those, and go often to Guadalupe, or used to. They are the first people I would call. Even if they can't help you directly, in terms of taking you, they may very well know who to ask. There is a small Navy base on the island and a settlement as well, and I think they will put you up. Arranging it and getting there is another question. Due to the remoteness of the location, I would expect that getting there will cost a pretty penny except on a LR boat, but you couldn't get off one of those.

rts551 - 9-29-2011 at 12:33 PM

MEXICO, Guadalupe Island, Baja California Pacific - January 2010
Sea water desalination system in exchange for a 1,235-acre marine reserve for a duration of 10 years *


The link is on one of the highlights on google earth. looks like the plant was delivered last June.

http://www.seacology.org/projects/individualprojects/MEXICO_...

[Edited on 9-29-2011 by rts551]

dtbushpilot - 9-29-2011 at 01:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
DT, I don't know the answer to your question. What I do know, is that the San Diego boats that go there (Long Range Sportfishing boats), do not have permission to put people ashore. The Shogun out of San Diego (http://www.shogunsportfishing.com/) does lots of expeditions, that are not for fishing, like to Clipperton and even the Revillagigedos, though I'm not sure if they still do those, and go often to Guadalupe, or used to. They are the first people I would call. Even if they can't help you directly, in terms of taking you, they may very well know who to ask. There is a small Navy base on the island and a settlement as well, and I think they will put you up. Arranging it and getting there is another question. Due to the remoteness of the location, I would expect that getting there will cost a pretty penny except on a LR boat, but you couldn't get off one of those.



Thanks for the info Roberto. I was thinking about a private boat trip there (sail boat, trawler etc.) and staying a few weeks. Is there protected anchorage etc. I guess I should have had this on my short list before I sold the plane..

I'll do some more research....thanks again....dt

mtgoat666 - 9-29-2011 at 02:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dtbushpilot
Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
DT, I don't know the answer to your question. What I do know, is that the San Diego boats that go there (Long Range Sportfishing boats), do not have permission to put people ashore. The Shogun out of San Diego (http://www.shogunsportfishing.com/) does lots of expeditions, that are not for fishing, like to Clipperton and even the Revillagigedos, though I'm not sure if they still do those, and go often to Guadalupe, or used to. They are the first people I would call. Even if they can't help you directly, in terms of taking you, they may very well know who to ask. There is a small Navy base on the island and a settlement as well, and I think they will put you up. Arranging it and getting there is another question. Due to the remoteness of the location, I would expect that getting there will cost a pretty penny except on a LR boat, but you couldn't get off one of those.



Thanks for the info Roberto. I was thinking about a private boat trip there (sail boat, trawler etc.) and staying a few weeks. Is there protected anchorage etc. I guess I should have had this on my short list before I sold the plane..

I'll do some more research....thanks again....dt


if leaving from US port, you can probably land on island after clearing customs in ensenada. there are probably boats in ensenada that could give you rides to island. i imagine the people on island all come/go from ensenada. but i don't know details.

the island is ecologically similar to the navy and public islands north of the border. the islands all differ primarily in amount of invasive plants and animals.

it is a shame that several of the great offshore islands north of the border are off limits. and likely to stay off limits because the navy littered the islands thru practice bombing

Ken Bondy - 9-29-2011 at 02:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
it is a shame that several of the great offshore islands north of the border are off limits. and likely to stay off limits because the navy littered the islands thru practice bombing


I agree with the thought mtgoat666 but I think that only happens at San Nicolas.

DianaT - 9-29-2011 at 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dtbushpilot
So, if someone wanted to take a trip to the island and do some fishing, exploring, camping or finding accommodations (lodging, food etc.) would it be possible? Do you need special permission to go there? How do you get it and from whom?.....dt


Yes, you do need permission from the Reserve to visit----my friend says that probably the best place to start is here.


Reserva de la Biosfera Isla Guadalupe

Good Luck

motoged - 9-29-2011 at 03:59 PM

DT et al,

I just Googled Isla Guadelupe....tons of info.

http://www.greatwhiteadventures.com/guadalupe_details.html

David, can you see yourself in a cage?




BTW, the leg was doing well until twisting it while moving stuff out of my Dad's house....x-ray says no damage but a limp set-back for a while..

Silt or sharks????

[Edited on 9-29-2011 by motoged]

bajaguy - 9-29-2011 at 04:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike

thot it looked like an old A26 or B25.

lockheed sounds about right but that narrow nose??





Don't think it's an A-26 or B-25 due to the passenger windows, door and c-ckpit glass, also lack of gun turrets or gun windows.

Maybe a Beech 18????

Update:....further research indicates Vandy is probably correct.

http://tinyurl.com/64zuzde

c-ckpit glass placement and tail assembly look like a match

[Edited on 9-29-2011 by bajaguy]

dtbushpilot - 9-29-2011 at 05:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike

thot it looked like an old A26 or B25.

lockheed sounds about right but that narrow nose??





Don't think it's an A-26 or B-25 due to the passenger windows, door and c-ckpit glass, also lack of gun turrets or gun windows.

Maybe a Beech 18????

Update:....further research indicates Vandy is probably correct.

http://tinyurl.com/64zuzde

c-ckpit glass placement and tail assembly look like a match

[Edited on 9-29-2011 by bajaguy]



vandy is correct, it is a Lockheed Lodestar.....dt

[Edited on 9-30-2011 by dtbushpilot]

baitcast - 9-29-2011 at 06:56 PM

You could make a trip down on the the first Red Rooster 50 years ago:lol:and a side trip to the island to check out the Elephant seals if you were so inclined,My Buds and I saved for one year to make that trip.

The boat was a converted Coast Guard boat,and Baitcast all hooked up,caught some big fish on that trip.

LancairDriver - 9-30-2011 at 03:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dtbushpilot
Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike

thot it looked like an old A26 or B25.

lockheed sounds about right but that narrow nose??


The airplane started it's life as a Lockheed Lodestar, but this one is a Howard Lodestar. Howard modified the nosecone and tail fairings and installed bigger engines. Options were R1820s to R2800's and also a nose wheel version was available, although the one in the picture is a tail dragger. In other words it was a souped up Lockheed Lodestar. This one would probably be of interest to an aircraft restorer, but wouldn't be worth the red tape and mordida involved.




Don't think it's an A-26 or B-25 due to the passenger windows, door and c-ckpit glass, also lack of gun turrets or gun windows.

Maybe a Beech 18????

Update:....further research indicates Vandy is probably correct.

http://tinyurl.com/64zuzde

c-ckpit glass placement and tail assembly look like a match

[Edited on 9-29-2011 by bajaguy]



vandy is correct, it is a Lockheed Lodestar.....dt

[Edited on 9-30-2011 by dtbushpilot]

Isla Guadalupe 1845 History - Introduction

SharkDiver - 10-5-2011 at 06:05 PM

For a small island off the coast of Mexico it has a rich story with ownership documents going back to the early 1800's, complete with title documents, letters, and even "stock certificates".

My journey began after a chance meeting with staff from an NGO in Mexico last year. We were in the process of helping put together a multi part natural history television series with Wildcoast about the island for Televisa.

That series went on to win a number of awards in Mexico last year.

There I met one of the staff members who, as it turns out, had family who actually lived on the island in the late 1800's.

She provided me with a "love letter" and hand drawn images from the period featuring the large building commonly called "the prison" at Point Norte.

Thus began my journey into the history of the island.

At U.C Berkley I uncovered original documents that showed by 1845 Isla Guadalupe was a privately held island owned by the Western Livestock Company out of Boston Massachusetts. To put this into perspective, by 1845 in the USA, many states had yet to join the union. Alaska was not purchased from Russia until 1867.

Suffice to say the discovery of $50.00 shares in stock certificates of "The Guadalupe Island Company" were nothing short of amazing as were small details like wages for staff, $35 in gold each year.

Isla Guadalupe was ceded from the Mexican Government to a Jose Castro and Florencio Ferrano,both Mexican citizens, on January 8th, 1839. They received not just Guadalupe island but all the smaller islands in the region as well. By 1845 Jose Castro had sold 50% of his stake in the islands for the princely sum of $500 in gold.

By 1870 the islands were finally sold to US interests and the formation of The Western Livestock Company in the State of Main lead almost immediately to The Guadalupe Island Company and the selling of stock certificates seeking a total capital of $500,000, the stocks were sold in San Francisco until 1889.

Isla Guadalupe did not return from private ownership to Mexico until almost the beginning of the 1900's and it was a historically interesting repatriation done with a letter from the then Governor of Baja, all but demanding the island back. The owners at that time, who had paid close to $2000 for the title to these islands decided not to fight. Perhaps due to the fact this was a difficult island to become commercially successful with or perhaps by that time they had exhausted the seal fishery and timber operations on the island.

In all the documents I uncovered I could find no historical mention of white sharks at this island.

Not all that surprising as The Guadalupe Island Companies mandate for the period was commercial sealing, timber, and cattle ranching.


Cheers,
Patric Douglas CEO
www.sharkdiver.com
www.sharkdivers.com
www.sharkdivers.blogspot.com
www.guadalupefund.org
www.sharkfreemarinas.com
415.235.9410

jakecard - 10-5-2011 at 06:15 PM

That is a heck of a first post. Thanks!

You mean U.S. corporate greed depleted Isla Guadalupe?

How out of character.




Jake

dtbushpilot - 10-5-2011 at 06:46 PM

Thanks for the informative post and welcome to Nomads SharkDiver. Tell us a little about you.....if you dare:yes::yes:.....dt

SharkDiver - 10-5-2011 at 07:38 PM

Hi dtbushpilot,

Thanks for the welcome. I am the CEO of Shark Diver www.sharkdiver.com and a big fan of Isla Guadalupe, the place gets into your skin. I am familiar with that plane having seen it a few times in person back in the day when you could still land on the island and a trip down to the fish camp on the south end was a good bottle of scotch and $50.00.

We run shark charters to the island in season and support the CICIMAR tagging and tracking effort with the whites:

http://www.sharkdiver.com/blog/45-industry-blog/4633

In my spare time I am looking for info about the island and matching old sealing records with shark population estimates. That's in between film and television productions and life in general.

Great thread you have going here I hope my contribution was enlightening.

Cheers,

Patric Douglas