BajaNomad - WHAT CAN BE DONE TO IMPROVE TOURISM??

WHAT CAN BE DONE TO IMPROVE TOURISM??

Pages: 1 2

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 01:30 PM

OK....we've been watching the good/bad tourism thread along with about a gazillion other sources of news abut how bad tourism in Baja has become.
We attribute this downward trend to the crime, the choked-up border and the economy for the most part, but, accepting these situations as the cause of it all, what's to be done to turn it around?
We need to see practical, real world solutions here...not just complaints about the effects. We need to address the causes and change that.
How can that be done.....realistically done? Not just demanded.

Any ideas out there?

ligui - 2-26-2012 at 01:43 PM

I've tried to book a flight to loreto this spring , no way getting a ticket , not enough seats to cover the people wanting to go there . Wanted to spend some money there but can't get there .

:light:

more flights , more tourists with money to spend in loreto :rolleyes:

Pompano - 2-26-2012 at 01:51 PM

It's all here...it's all about advertising the right way.

YOU'VE GOT TO..... ACCENTUATE THE POSITIVE!

Cypress - 2-26-2012 at 01:52 PM

Limit the use of gill nets to certain areas. Those areas will become biological dead zones. You can still catch fish in the Sea of Cortez, but the window is closing.

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
It's all here...it's all about advertising the right way.

YOU'VE GOT TO..... ACCENTUATE THE POSITIVE!

How does that eliminate the negatives?

We know full well what the negatives are. I'm just wondering if we're all just peeing in the wind wishing they would go away.

Bajaboy - 2-26-2012 at 01:57 PM

Have a coordinated effort....streamline all the permits, laws, required for a tourist. Make it easy for a tourist to get the permits, licenses, etc.

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
Have a coordinated effort....streamline all the permits, laws, required for a tourist. Make it easy for a tourist to get the permits, licenses, etc.

That would certainly help as well. I guess all beaches started with just one grain of sand.

Still....shouldn't we be concerned with the elimination of the negatives? Can that be done?
That is MY question.

BajaWarrior - 2-26-2012 at 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
Have a coordinated effort....streamline all the permits, laws, required for a tourist. Make it easy for a tourist to get the permits, licenses, etc.

I agree!

Let Tillie Foster do her job...

EnsenadaDr - 2-26-2012 at 02:20 PM

Let Tillie Foster do her job the way she wants and stop interfering and we will have a booming tourism once again!!

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
OK....we've been watching the good/bad tourism thread along with about a gazillion other sources of news abut how bad tourism in Baja has become.
We attribute this downward trend to the crime, the choked-up border and the economy for the most part, but, accepting these situations as the cause of it all, what's to be done to turn it around?
We need to see practical, real world solutions here...not just complaints about the effects. We need to address the causes and change that.
How can that be done.....realistically done? Not just demanded.

Any ideas out there?

KurtG - 2-26-2012 at 02:27 PM

Above posts have many good points but a major factor is that many people, especially the younger folks, simply don't have the funds for travel that they did in the past.

Pompano - 2-26-2012 at 03:11 PM

Advertise, advertise, advertise...always a good short-term ploy. Build it and they will come attitudes have always prevailed...until now:

But now there is a few other factors to consider. The downward spiral of the US economy comes to mind immediately. Money!!.. for tourists to spend on luxury vacations in Baja.

That is of course, the key factor. And it is a very hard fix at this point. Money for tourists to spend on vacations in Baja? Not much around anymore. Our current failed US economics policy will continue to affect Baja.. our neighbor..and it's tourism. Until we decide to fix our own problems, we can do little about boosting Baja's economy, nor can we or should we give it that priority.

US fix is a must-do first, Baja will follow. Simple truths are always the hardest to accept, but the easiet to follow.

Now excuse me while I duck...

Bajaboy - 2-26-2012 at 03:18 PM

After reading the comments above, sounds like we have different definitions of tourism.

Follow the money

bajaguy - 2-26-2012 at 03:28 PM

Unfortunately, Baja, and Mexico do not have the advertising dollars and the media support to counteract all of the (sometimes true and sometimes misstated) bad press generated by the US news media.

Follow the money.....Who has to gain by US and Canadian tourists staying home??????......the US and Canadian travel/tourist industry..........and who buys advertising on major TV/Radio networks and in major newspapers........the US and Canadian travel industry.......

In my opinion, the best way to increase tourism, and tourism dollars is for all of us to be spokespresons for Baja (and Mexico).

Just had a recent visit by some friends from NOB......same story....they thought there would be heads rolling in the street and bodies hanging from every bridge.........what they found was fun, warm, friendly people, great food......and an outstanding time......when they return home, they will spread the word.......that is what Baja needs.....

Maybe we could invite Sandra Dibble from the San Diego UT down for a week so she can see the "real" Baja.

Ateo - 2-26-2012 at 03:38 PM

New northbound border crossing from playas. Never gonna happen but it would be nice.

Ateo - 2-26-2012 at 03:40 PM

How about thinking towards 2040 and going with 48 or 60 northbound lanes at SY instead of 36?

Burbs - 2-26-2012 at 04:03 PM

1.) For our area(Loreto-Mulege) it is the high price of flights. But even with the high price, the flights are full. A friend just had to leave two weeks early because he could not get on a later flight out.

2.) Each area(towns) needs to have more information on things to do. This could be supplied at various locations including City Hall. Large information boards at the entrances of local Pueblo's. These could be free, unbiased info boards. Included are maps of the town and layouts of the streets. People rely on old or outdated travel guides which can be disappointing. There are so many things to do.
*I will do this at Buenaventura!

3.) Arrest the bandito's. Robberies on or near the beach happen regularly. In March-April they will increase with the robbers knowing the tourists are leaving. Even if the robbers get caught the tourist will not stay to prosecute. So its a win-win situation for robbers. The police know who is doing this. The authorities have to stop the bad guys.

4.) Like Pompano says, have positive information about Mexico.

5.) Promote towards persons in their 50-60's. These are the persons who might like Mexico and invest in a house. Where we live, investors are needed. Excuse me for saying this, but it seems there are not so many young(50-60) persons buying in this part of Mexico. In the days past from what I've heard this was not the case.

6.) Connect electricity and have more phone towers(yes you..Carlos Slim) in our Mulege area. As I drive along the Mexican #1 power lines seem to be run in all directions, but they can't connect 30 miles north of Loreto to Mulege. There is plenty of business for the electricity and it will encourage some tourism growth and sales of parcels. Phones and communication are so important to tourists and non tourists. I'm sure if there was electric power available the phone antennae would follow.

7.) Educate the local communities on how important tourism is. Explain to the locals how the monies stay in the community and show how it helps all. Some Mexicans are anti tourism because they feel they are not rewarded by its benefits. But if they can be shown how it does benefit them maybe it could change their attitude. When tourists feel welcome it can be miraculous.

joerover - 2-26-2012 at 04:15 PM

1 Get the drunks off of baja nomads. Anyone reading these pages would be afraid to come down here.
2 Pay the policia a decent wage. Smart people do not have to take an under paid job.

Bajahowodd - 2-26-2012 at 04:31 PM

Seems to me that some of the problems, as well as the fixes might actually be different between the Baja crowd, and Mexico in general.

As for what ligui mentioned, it's more about the tail wagging the dog. Given the high cost of fuel, and the business models of the airline industry, we will never see them providing more flights in the hope that it will result in more passengers. Loreto has been suffering for the past several years simply because there really are not enough people looking to travel there by plane. I had considered that when the Villa Group opened their Ensenada Blanca resort, they might have considered subsidizing airfares from the US. NO. They have, instead, subsidized some flights from Cabo to Loreto, which, to me, begs the question when it's all about getting people to go to Mexico in the first place.

Lencho's comment about closing the La Paz malecon to vehicles does sound interesting. I have greatly enjoyed just such pedestrian-friendly conditions on Isla Mujeres. But, La Paz is a big city. And I really wonder where all those hoped-for pedestrians would park?

As for Pompano, "That is of course, the key factor. And it is a very hard fix at this point. Money for tourists to spend on vacations in Baja? Not much around anymore. Our current failed US economics policy will continue to affect Baja.. our neighbor..and it's tourism. Until we decide to fix our own problems, we can do little about boosting Baja's economy, nor can we or should we give it that priority."....

Perhaps fodder for Fox News enthusiasts, but in fact the US economy, while having a slow recovery, is still caught in the throes of something that was started a long time ago with the migration of manufacturing offshore. There;s simply no quick fix to this problem. And although there will be many who will disagree with me, there actually needs to be more government spending to create jobs. The Trickle Down thing after decades shows that what results is trickle up to the rich. Anyone care to show me any job creating legislation introduced by Boehner's House?

Mexico has, and is attempting to attract tourism for around the world. They realize that there is a limit to how many tourists they can lure from the US.

But, the long-running drug war and cartel violence cannot simply be swept under the rug.

For as long as anyone worries about the treat of violence, real or perceived, it it be a drag on Mexico's tourist industry.

The US is absolutely complicit in this, given that although during the Bush/ Fox years, it got kick-started, when Calderon took office, it became a surge.

Usually one can determine the results of such an operation by whether things are better than they were. 'Nuff said.

I dunno if the genie is out of the bottle on this, but given the upcoming Mexican elections, there does exist an opportunity for a new regime to broker some sort of deal with these filthy rich drug lords that will quell the violence. God knows that was how it worked for many years.

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by joerover
1 Get the drunks off of baja nomads. Anyone reading these pages would be afraid to come down here.
2 Pay the policia a decent wage. Smart people do not have to take an under paid job.

Hate to say it joe, but you need a window in your belly to see when your head's so far up your butt.
You have no idea of the problems here. No idea at all.

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Lencho's comment about closing the La Paz malecon to vehicles does sound interesting.

Not even near an approach to the three problems noted above. This is like saying, "Have cleaner restrooms and they will come."

I mentioned the three, in my way of thinking, barriers to life as it was in Baja.
Some of you have sniffed at it, peed on it, and gone your way with local problems.....which won't be problems if you can't get people down here.

Try harder, folks, to see the Maginot Line that needs to be crossed....and it ain't chicknsht visa problems.

C'mon....you guys can think deeper than this.

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch
Two things that almost all my friends agree upon.
The border wait crossing north has pretty much ended ALL day-tripping or short trips and, well, the economy sucks...
Both easy fixes, right?

This is what I'm asking. Answers to these problems.
Thanks, Frank, for seeing the obvious picture.

Woooosh - 2-26-2012 at 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KurtG
Above posts have many good points but a major factor is that many people, especially the younger folks, simply don't have the funds for travel that they did in the past.

You are right. And Baja is no longer perceived as a bargain by budget tourists- who are/were most of us. Many people do not understand the peso exchange rates and end up paying "too much"when using their dollars. The border construction will be a problem for two more years. Visiting tourists will not have SENTRI and the Fast Pass Lane is hit or miss.

I haven't heard any updates on Rosarito Beach Spring Break 2012 - but the passport requirements (and parental concerns) make it difficult in past years for the college bus groups to return in big numbers. Club Macho Taco is back open in Rosarito (thanks to a Hugo Torres son) but most all the clientele, even on weekends, is Mexican- not many US college kids. I think the higher end resorts (Cancun, Cabo) where tourists fly in are doing a lot better- perhaps because of the value built into the travel packages.

Dedicated return lanes

bajaguy - 2-26-2012 at 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ateo
How about thinking towards 2040 and going with 48 or 60 northbound lanes at SY instead of 36?

For US Citizens/US Passport holders

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy

For US Citizens/US Passport holders

You think Mexico would stand for that exclusivity from their soil?

Woooosh - 2-26-2012 at 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ateo
New northbound border crossing from playas. Never gonna happen but it would be nice.

It would certainly be a welcome addition and bring tourists directly to Playas and the toll road bypassing Tijuana completely.

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl
but this is going to put another black eye for Tourism in Mexico

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/26/world/mexico-cruise-robbery/in...

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=58468

Woooosh - 2-26-2012 at 04:54 PM

How about a high speed entertainment catamaran operation running between downtown San Diego and Ensenada? (Like the ones from Boston to Provincetown)

http://www.boston-ptown.com/schedule.html

[Edited on 2-26-2012 by Woooosh]

bajaguy - 2-26-2012 at 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy

For US Citizens/US Passport holders

You think Mexico would stand for that exclusivity from their soil?

If it increases the number of visitors/tourists from the US, why not???...........the US and Mexico could do a test period of 3-6 months and see what happens

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
If it increases the number of visitors/tourists from the US, why not

National pride comes to mind. I would feel the same way if Mexicans had an exclusive lane to the gate that stretched up our freeway. Wouldn't you?

OPPS

desertcpl - 2-26-2012 at 04:59 PM

sorry Dennis, didn't follow that one.

I agree with the wait times, I here it so many times here in Yuma, most people say its just not worth it.

and so mush more about the legal system needing to take a better approach to the criminals. Just like the Cruise ship passengers being robbed, we all know that the Cartels are not involved with this. why would they Rob there best customers,

[Edited on 2-27-2012 by desertcpl]

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
How about a high speed entertainment catamaran operation running between downtown San Diego and Ensenada?

Now...why didn't the best thinkers in the world come up with this wonderful idea to "make it all go away?"

You da man, Woooosh. :lol:

sancho - 2-26-2012 at 05:10 PM

For the driving into Baja, I think us on this board
may exaggerate the # of US Tourists who have EVER
FELT COMFORTABLE driving down. Posters on BN have
a different view of Baja than someone who has
no experience driving in Mex. To me there is a
difference in those Gringos who will fly, cruise,
as opposed to driving. The border wait will never
change except for some major expansion of lanes,
the US economy may stay stagnent for yrs. To hope
for new tourists to drive into Mex may be wishful thinking,
although bajanomad.com, correction, I meant to say bajabound Mex Ins, had a recent post stating
business was good from the start of this yr. Not
sure the permits ? stops folks from driving across.
Catamaran? read just the other day off the Ensenada
paper that a ferry of some sorts, from San Diego to
Ensenada is in the planning
stages, don't know how far along

[Edited on 2-27-2012 by sancho]

[Edited on 2-27-2012 by sancho]

[Edited on 2-27-2012 by sancho]

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho
read just the other day off the Ensenada
paper that a ferry of some sorts is in the planning
stages, don't know how far along

Well....he's not going to do anything about the problem by himself. He'll need the help of a "permissive" government....doncha think.

Times are changeing, however. :biggrin:

How to Promote Tourism?

Gypsy Jan - 2-26-2012 at 05:23 PM

Lavish TV advertisements showing the natural beauty of Baja.

Promote the All-inclusive resorts in Cabo for the timid.

Promote ecotourism, featuring the historic biological reserves and how to visit.

Feature La Paz as a historical place to visit to understand "La Conquistadora".

Feature Ensenada and the adjacent Valle de Guadulupe as the "Napa Valley of Baja"'

Feature the revitalized Tijuana as the gourmet destination in a sophisticated metropolitan city as seen with Mision 19, Caesars , Erbizo, LA Querencia and so many others that I haven't visited.

bajadock - 2-26-2012 at 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
How about a high speed entertainment catamaran operation running between downtown San Diego and Ensenada? (Like the ones from Boston to Provincetown)

http://www.boston-ptown.com/schedule.html

[Edited on 2-26-2012 by Woooosh]

San Diego-Ensenada Water Taxi

BigOly - 2-26-2012 at 05:30 PM

Why not just open the border? Free trade and the best deal wins. If you don't want it, don't buy it. No hassel border crossing. You get caught being a bad guy you suffer, not the victim. Go, have fun in the sun! There's mostly one way in and one way out of Baja. If you are bad, you should pay for hurting people.. :lol:

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Lavish TV advertisements showing the natural beauty of Baja.

Promote the All-inclusive resorts in Cabo for the timid.

Promote ecotourism, featuring the historic biological reserves and how to visit.

Feature La Paz as a historical place to visit to understand "La Conquistadora".

Feature Ensenada and the adjacent Valle de Guadulupe as the "Napa Valley of Baja"'

Feature the revitalized Tijuana as the gourmet destination in a sophisticated metropolitan city as seen with Mision 19, Caesars , Erbizo, LA Querencia and so many others that I haven't visited.

Good ideas, Jan. Really good, but we still arn't addressing the negatives. Those are the hinderance.
How do we truthfully say to a traveling public that the negatives are no longer there?
Telling them that something else is pretty shouldn't be able to cover that.

Hey.....I appreciate everybody's input, but most of it misses the mark.
What I asked for is methods to do away with the real reasons for our demise...the crime, economy and the border wait.

So far...no one ['cept Frank] has offered sht.....which leads me to believe there is no answer.

Now.....if that doesn't bother you Baja lovers....nothing will.

But.....as we are adventurers, of a sort, accept the reality and save your Baja photos. That's what your grandkids will need to identify you with your decisions.

Woooosh - 2-26-2012 at 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadock

Quote:

San Diego-Ensenada Water Taxi

4 hours and $30. I was thinking of a faster boat I guess...

Woooosh - 2-26-2012 at 05:45 PM

ah... an exercise in futility. "Do you want to play a game?..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo

[Edited on 2-27-2012 by Woooosh]

Pompano - 2-26-2012 at 06:17 PM

Actually, I think that just being part of this forum, posting ideas, photos, trip reports, whatever... is doing a good service to promote Baja tourism. I can't imagine a better PR firm for Baja than Baja Nomads, can you? I and many other posters who have informed me, get emails from many different countries saying how much they are looking forward to experiencing the same Baja things we are writing about.

A great way to advertise our beloved land. So yeah...it's about getting the word out. People read this forum by the thousands worldwide...and they are able to pick out the chaff from the kernels.

I'd say ..Keep it up, nomads!

[Edited on 2-27-2012 by Pompano]

mcfez - 2-26-2012 at 06:21 PM

Create a Website that rocks! From interactive to photogenic layouts....the current webs sites out there are dated material. Old and boring. Limited to data.

A Baja Website that shows it all from snorkeling destinations to premier whale watching spots....sports fishing to white sandy beaches. Listings of exclusive Hotels to Bed and Breakfast Inns. Restaurant guild to best taco stands. hell...get DavidK's maps in there too!

It be easy...to promote the site with partnership hosts. I always use the net to look into new areas that I wish to travel.

Like in Cozumel.....they promote the Palancar Reef and Columbia Reefs. Belize has http://www.travelbelize.org/

Yes.....and fix the logjam of traffic at the borders. Fix the Airports to be more tourist friendly....like the Chek Lap Kok Airport

BajaRat - 2-26-2012 at 06:25 PM

Quote:

Anthony Bourdain :lol:

desertcpl - 2-26-2012 at 06:33 PM

here is a little one that might help

limit how the Time Share people are allowed to operate, keep them confined to their projects only, get them off the streets and the airports,, people are so tired of the bull chit from them,

cielo - 2-26-2012 at 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
It's all here...it's all about advertising the right way.

YOU'VE GOT TO..... ACCENTUATE THE POSITIVE!

How does that eliminate the negatives?

We know full well what the negatives are. I'm just wondering if we're all just peeing in the wind wishing they would go away.

The tourism industry in Mexico will continue to be a shadow of what it used to be until the drug wars end or at least subside to a pre 2006 level. Sure, the US economy is sluggish but that is not the reason people aren't traveling to Mexico. Perception is reality and Mexico is perceived a total mess. We can and have argued all day on whether that's true or not but that doesn't change the way the country is perceived.

To answer your question Dennis, there is very little we can do but hope that the Calderon's replacement is smart enough to bring an end to the Mexican government's declared war on the Cartels. It's obvious that rattling the hornet's nests has made the problem much, much worse than it was in 2006.

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
Actually, I think that just being part of this forum, posting ideas, photos, trip reports, whatever... is doing a good service to promote Baja tourism. I can't imagine a better PR firm for Baja than Baja Nomads, can you?

Awww man.....you guys have become the problem that the Mexican government hopes for and loves to see. Chamber Of Commerce checks are in the mail for all of you. [you can convert them to dollars at your local Cambio at Costco]

OK....***it. Ain't no problems here that a good fishing story won't fix.

You're all losers because you refuse to see the problems as they are.

Good.

Go effing fishing.

David K - 2-26-2012 at 06:50 PM

Just 3 ideas:

Allow tourist to (legally) arm themselves (and let the crooks know it). When the good people with guns out-number the bad people with guns, crime drops! Places with the stictest gun regulations have the highest crime (because only the criminals have guns).

Turn America back into the growing economy it once was, so we who like to travel can afford to, once again!

Pay the networks to provide true news that is balanced and not just negative about Mexico (even the one 'fair and balanced' network has been anti-Mexico). For every one tourist who is the victim of a crime, there are 1000 who have a great time in Baja. You are far more likely to be robbed or shot at around your American home than at a camp in Baja.

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cielo
To answer your question Dennis, there is very little we can do but hope that the Calderon's replacement is smart enough to bring an end to the Mexican government's declared war on the Cartels. It's obvious that rattling the hornet's nests has made the problem much, much worse than it was in 2006.

I agree, Cielo, but are you saying captitulation should be the path to peace in Mexico?

By the way....thank you.

Also, by the way....you are aware that the cartels have their own funded candidates for the highest office and below, do you not? This election coming up could well be termed a candidate for, "The Estados Unidos de Guzman."
You know that.....don't you. I'll bet you do.
This, in Mexico, hasn't been a war on drugs for a long time. It's been a war for power.....a war for power to run the country from the ground up and ultimately back the candidate to run the country.
You know this as well.

So....why are we baloneying each other as to the inevitabiles in Mexico? You....and I know what the future holds.
Ain't a pretty picture....is it.

Bajaboy - 2-26-2012 at 07:15 PM

Another reality is the Baja is not the bargain it once was...I still love the place, though.

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
Another reality is the Baja is not the bargain it once was...I still love the place, though.

Enjoy it, Zac. It won't change much for you and the kids if you won't let it.
What's left of Baja is what you and your kids are all about. Ignore the rest.

Fernweh - 2-26-2012 at 07:27 PM

Pointing the fingers to Mexico is regards to drug and cartel violence -
let's clean our own house first.

Nobody is smoking, snoring or inhaling all the those drugs in a little Baja rancho somewhere.

All that stuff is destined for the US. Our American friends and neighbors are using a sh*tload of that cartel candy.

I grew up without all that stuff, have not used any or not planning to do so in the future. I do not know anybody who does, or I do not know about.

Don't buy or use any of that stuff - easy?

Karl

DENNIS - 2-26-2012 at 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fernweh
Nobody is smoking, snoring or inhaling all the those drugs in a little Baja rancho somewhere.

All that stuff is destined for the US. Our American friends and neighbors are using a sh*tload of that cartel candy.

Totally wrong. With the advance of the middle class in Mexico [and, it's advancing rapidly] drugs have become popular with them as well, especially the young folks. Just like in the US, the problem is growing here in commonn society as well.
It isn't an issue of infected culture as some would have you believe. It's a matter of middle class income and a yearning to feel good. That's about all there is to it. Give any segment of any society a means to feel better, and they'll take it.....at any cost.
Now....Mexico is doing that as well.

Ateo - 2-26-2012 at 07:52 PM

Stop the war on drugs.

Ateo - 2-26-2012 at 07:53 PM

Nude beaches. Baja needs tons of nude beaches.

Dave - 2-26-2012 at 08:04 PM

My idea for improving tourism would be having less of it.

Islandbuilder - 2-26-2012 at 08:15 PM

First of all, a personal account of a great trip to Mexico is worth a great deal. Just today I have posted on two FB threads of friends saying that they are afraid to visit Mexico because of crime (todays crime was the cruise ship bus near PV).

Second, I think it's time we ended the war on drugs. It drains the huge profit out of the drug trade, taxes what has been until now an underground economy, use those taxes to fund drug awareness and addiction treatment facilities. Clear the prisons of people whose only crime was possession.

Legalization of drugs would also help streamline border crossing waits.

Mexico could utilize some of the money they save by ending the "war" to streamline and digitize their land registration and title systems.

a foot of roadway outside the foglines would help a lot, too!!

Bajaboy - 2-26-2012 at 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
Another reality is the Baja is not the bargain it once was...I still love the place, though.

Enjoy it, Zac. It won't change much for you and the kids if you won't let it.
What's left of Baja is what you and your kids are all about. Ignore the rest.

Dennis, you are spot on. My favorite thing about Baja is the time I spend with my family. Period!

Sparetimewanted - 2-26-2012 at 08:32 PM

With my sincere apologies to Shari and all the other great Nomads who are running businesses in baja, am I the only one who thinks that we have enough tourism in baja already? I do not want to see further commercial development of Baja. Imagine going down to a beautiful spot like Agua Verde and seeing 3-4 big hotels, speedboats pulling drunk tourists on parasails, 5-6 discos, a golf course, maybe a couple of strip clubs, a cruise ship off the beach, 2-3 Pemex stations and a couple of OXXO's? One Cabo is enough. Too many great spots have already been bought up and plans are in the works. The only thing slowing down that development is slow tourism.

Islandbuilder - 2-26-2012 at 08:58 PM

I think that the recent pause in tourism spending has given the folks interested in controlling the growth of tourism and development a chance to catch up and get organized.

Only investors (and not even all of those) are in favor of unguided development. Mechanisms are in place to begin protecting fisheries, wetlands and other un-replaceable wilderness areas in Mexico (for example; Wildcoasts land purchases along the Seven Sisters coast). Hopefully this movement will continue even as tourist dollars begin flowing again.

shari - 2-26-2012 at 09:03 PM

I agree Sparetimewanted...but a little extra income from tourism or visitor spin offs sure is nice for some families. We are a very small business in a small village and naturally we value the "smallness" and untouristy place we live in. Luckily our village doesnt depend on tourism. I am really torn at times with progress too and dont want to see big projects but I do support small LOCAL tourism endeavours.

I too would hate to see a big development in Agua Verde...especially if it's near where we "remote" camp. More pristine beaches are being gobbled up and fenced off which is disturbing. But I do believe there can be some balance and certain kinds of small scale development can be positive.

Now to address the original question...I think many suggestions have been made that I agree with...safety would increase with better police training and pay, we must make sure visitors are educated in how to be safe when travelling, somehow get the word out that there are safe areas to travel to in Baja, more trip reports on other websites such as this one, maybe offer more deals due to the poor economy are just some thoughts I have.

SFandH - 2-27-2012 at 07:14 AM

Mula's recent post about 180 bikers and 6 tour buses pulling into Lopez Mateos for whale watching and dinner reminded me that (I think) ecotourism is increasing as is cruising the peninsula on motorcycles. Ecotourism by design is low impact and good for the local eco-guides and outfitters and both bikers and ecotourists probably make use of hotels and restaurants more than RVers/off-roaders/part-time residents do.

Bright spots perhaps in the baja tourism picture.

I'd love to cruise to cabo on a big road bike, it might be better than my previous baja dream vehicle - a '59 Eldorado. :spingrin:

[Edited on 2-27-2012 by SFandH]

caddilac3.jpg - 5kB

DavidE - 2-27-2012 at 10:30 AM

Mexico relegates the permit process to a "just get by" status as far as funding is concerned. Where is the modern facility beside the toll road with great parking, modern offices with clear signage?

If Tijuana and Ensenada were important enough in the scheme of things, the state government would establish a tourist police force - mind you not a large one, but with officers that patrol tourist pedestrian boulevards, and can translate if a problem should arise.

Where are the large highway signs like they have at Nogales, and Piedras Negras?

As long as a "Just Get By" atmosphere exists, tourism will be mediocre.

The Gull - 2-27-2012 at 11:57 AM

All Nomads can post their homes on Craig's list to allow American visitors to stay for free.

Dennis, please post your ad link here when you are done.

mtgoat666 - 2-27-2012 at 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaeng
This applies to northern region of TJ-SD

Definitely make it easier for visitors to "get back to the US" in the form of *well marked signs* and clearly marked routes to get back to various crossings.

If a first time visitor spends a weekend, and tries to go back on Sunday and they find that the border is "roped off", they are basically effed. They will find themselves quickly lost in a very big and unknown city and that is not a good feeling. Alternate routes are totally unknown, and the police holding up the yellow tape are no help at all and they just wave you off to enter the pits of the vast unknown. This happened to me a few times when first started coming here, and it's happened to some of our visitors who we provided them detailed maps and pictures of a route, but if you hit a blockade, "they are on their own" and if/when they do finally find an entrance to the border line, it's a fight just to get in line then another few hours of waiting. Yes, sounds like a fun trip. Let's go....

Homeland security is the BIGGEST problem after crime that deters trade and travel between USA and Mexico. But if you complain to our politicians they don't care, because they think building fences and roadblocks and bashing immigrants gets more votes than facilitating travel and trade.

DianaT - 2-27-2012 at 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
All Nomads can post their homes on Craig's list to allow American visitors to stay for free.

Dennis, please post your ad link here when you are done.

Our link is here and we do let guests we know stay for free---guess we are doing our part. :biggrin:

Cypress - 2-27-2012 at 12:16 PM

A high speed rail line with 24/7 service, shuttle buses from southern CA, four-laning Hwy 1. :lol:

DENNIS - 2-27-2012 at 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
Dennis, please post your ad link here when you are done.

Here ya go, Gull. Thanks for reminding me....I'm sooo motivated:

http://micasaes.net/

Woooosh - 2-27-2012 at 12:20 PM

From Off-topic. A video that shows just how much some Mexicans want tourists to return. Spoiler alert: they don't.

Mexico Builds Border Wall to Keep Out US A**holes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-bJ9V7U428

Bajatripper - 2-27-2012 at 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Any ideas out there?

La Paz? Close the Malecon to vehicles from 15:00 to 03:00 and most the weekend.

This would allow all the "must do" vehicle traffic (merchandise deliveries, trash pickup etc.) and create an astounding peak-hour waterfront playground for tourists and locals alike.

For starters, La Paz isn't a foreign tourist destination, so I doubt there'd be the rush of the "right" (as in dollars) tourism that most people equate with "tourism" if they were to close the Malecon to vehicles during those hours. According to INEGI, La Paz gets about 70-80 percent national (Mexican) tourists and the rest are foreign. And Mexican tourists like the town just as it is.

I did a two-year study of tourism here some years ago and one of the findings was that La Paz is viewed by most foreign tourists as a place that's "on the way" to other tourist scenes (the whales, for example). Our beaches aren't world class, at least, not those in town. For good beaches, one needs to go out on the peninsula north of town, to Balandra or Tecolote.

As for the malecon--we are definitely a "car culture" (BCS has the highest registered-vehicle-per-resident ration in Mexico, according to the 2005 edition of INEGI data)--and the malecon, as you imply, is THE PLACE to go in a car in the early evenings. It's what the people do around here, especially on weekends. To close it to vehicle traffic in the hopes that it would attract tourists would be to place the cart before the horse. You'd only create lots of resentment among locals without the monetary payoff to make it hurt less.

I think that La Paz should adopt the Mazatlan Model of tourism development. I'm referring to the "Zona Dorada" they've built up for the last thirty years or so that is about 8-10 kilometers north of Mazatlan proper (Olas Altas, which was once the center of their tourism development). Tecolote, and (unfortunately) Balandra are where our tourism development will likely take root. La Paz should be preserved as a Mexican tourist resort, so it doesn't lose it's "Mexican town" feeling--or what's left of it.

Of course, in an ideal world, we'd develop small-scale, locally owned tourism enterprises that are proven much healthier for the environment and which leave LOTS more money among the local population, something the Los Cabos-style resorts aren't known for doing.

[Edited on 2-28-2012 by Bajatripper]

Sprocket - 2-27-2012 at 01:49 PM

Border wait is the biggest bummer of all! Improve border times and they will come. Not just turistas. I remeber the days when we would drive to Puerto Nuev for dinner.

Baja needs to check there hotel and resturant pricing. I can take the family to a nice hotel in Palm Springs for half what I would spend to go to San Felipe and have no border wait!

KurtG - 2-27-2012 at 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SFandH

I'd love to cruise to cabo on a big road bike, it might be better than my previous baja dream vehicle - a '59 Eldorado. :spingrin:

[Edited on 2-27-2012 by SFandH]

As one who has done dozens of round trip motorcycle rides to Mulege and beyond over the past almost 40 years I highly recommend it. Nothing clears my mind like a 500 mile day on Mex Hwy 1. I have never tired of it and don't think I ever will.

temporarilyoutofservice - 4-3-2012 at 01:22 PM

Hi Dennis.

Real chit happens here and acknowledgement from the Gringos on this forum needs to happen. Even though your question won't be properly addressed, it needs to be raised repeatedly until so.

The changes have to come from the Mexicans themselves and corruption needs rooted out. Citizens here need to have more involvement and be socially conscious. Such mentality simply does not exist. Mexicans don't even know their own rights, even their worker rights. They even sign illegal contracts with employers that violate their federal rights.

Mexicans need to take a stand and Gringos need to help facilitate political awareness rather than trying to hoodwink potential tourists.

Build it, and they will come.

Gringos and resorts are helping to insure further decline in tourism with inflated prices, chit service all the while corruption is rampant, crime is rampant. It needs to be addressed.

[Edited on 4-3-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]

temporarilyoutofservice - 4-3-2012 at 01:27 PM

Like I predicted, naive answers.

Carlos'n Charlie's in La Paz got shut down because rich guys were raping the waitresses *in* the restaurant.

And everyone's talking about marketing.

temporarilyoutofservice - 4-3-2012 at 01:46 PM

Quote:

As for the malecon--we are definitely a "car culture" (BCS has the highest registered-vehicle-per-resident ration in Mexico, according to the 2005 edition of INEGI data)--and the malecon, as you imply, is THE PLACE to go in a car in the early evenings. It's what the people do around here, especially on weekends. To close it to vehicle traffic in the hopes that it would attract tourists would be to place the cart before the horse. You'd only create lots of resentment among locals without the monetary payoff to make it hurt less.

haha. You mean the drinking-and-driving "culture."

[Edited on 4-3-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]

toneart - 4-3-2012 at 02:12 PM

Last month, the Rotarians, who are very active in Mulege, had a meeting to discuss these issues as the pertain to Mulege. An email went out to some of us residents who are known by Rotary board members. It is disappointing that I have had no feedback other than "Good ideas, Tony" by the soliciting board member. I do NOT know if my ideas were even presented.

So here are the my ideas as sent by email to the board member:

"Ideas to help tourism: finish projects such as promoting as a fishing destination; malecon, dredge river, etc.

Write press releases in U.S. media with photos showing the beauty of the area.

Publicize the safety of the area and how friendly our municipal police are.

Promote positive stories of how the community helped locals who were economically hurt by the floods; the clean ups that were done by government, organizations such as the Rotarians and also, individuals. Show pictures of The Orchard homes, streets and landscaping. We are exemplary!

Ideas to promote investors: standardize immigration processes for FM3, FM2, etc. between the various jurisdictions. They differ widely among the locations, and the individual officers too.

Allow Mexican consulates in The United States to process annual renewals. Being on time for renewal at a local immigration office (Santa Rosalia) is often not possible. Suspend fines for being late with good excuse (such as Doctor's report; medical records). Allow people to surrender their FM3s, FM2s, etc. to Mexican consulates in The United States if they are no longer needed.

Lower costs of Fideicomiso purchases and transfers.

Allow actual capital gains/losses on sale of homes rather than on arbitrary appraisal. We have suffered extreme economic losses along the river and market values have greatly declined.

Mexico shoots itself in the foot with the above practices.That promotes ill will. Word gets around. To me it would seem logical to become more investor friendly by making these changes. Might as well promote good will rather than bad!

These suggestions may be beyond the scope of Jimmy's interest but in my opinion, these larger concerns involving the national image directly affects the local attraction that is Mulege."

temporarilyoutofservice - 4-3-2012 at 02:21 PM

@toneart

I only met six nice residents in Mulege. The rest were crooks, pathetic saps, leaches, and unfriendly.

They want dollars but they don't want tourists. You have a social and political problem, not a tourism problem.

Mulege is loco. It's sad because there are some genuinely decent, honest people from there.

[Edited on 4-3-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]

[Edited on 4-3-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]

temporarilyoutofservice - 4-3-2012 at 02:30 PM

A first step in rooting out corruption would be overturning: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calumnia

It's just a political shield for corruption.

[Edited on 4-3-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]

toneart - 4-3-2012 at 04:17 PM

Dennis,

Before the troll interruptions, I tried to contribute to your questions. Funny how trolls always attack the person negatively, whereas others try to be constructive in dealing with the topic.

In my post, the first part did not deal with the negatives, of which there are some, but rather, I tried to answer the Rotarians' (Mexican National business people, American and Canadian Residents) questions. They were interested in promoting Mulege to attract more tourists. My answers, which were specific to Mulege, offered only positive, imagery.

The context was thinking in terms of PR; ways in which Mexico could change things instead of shooting itself in the foot.

The second part, in which I talked about attracting investors did deal with your questions, I believe. It dealt with the problems that Mexico presents for the whole country, including Baja. I offered my solutions.

Obviously the global economy and especially the drug cartel violence is a very real problem and is much more difficult to solve. I agree with many others, here and on other boards, that the violence cannot be ignored. Reporting on that is a responsible thing to do. People do need to know the perils so that they can make informed decisions. But that is a different topic, and has been the subject of many threads.

Also, the border crossings really do impede tourism as several posters have said. I read the other day where a huge new project is scheduled to begin in Tecate very soon. It is a giant solar installation. Can you imagine what kind of truck traffic up that narrow, winding road will do to that border crossing? Not very good timing for it to happen at the same time the San Ysidro crossing, two year project is going on. :no:

DENNIS - 4-3-2012 at 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
Dennis,

Before the troll interruptions, I tried to contribute to your questions.

Ahhhh....that's OK, Tony. It was getting a little dull around here anyway.

Good try, and thanks.

Hook - 4-3-2012 at 04:27 PM

As a resident down here, I'm trying to figure out how more tourism is going to make my life better.

Maybe the lesson to be learned from the Great Recession is DIVERSIFY. How often have we seen economies too dependent on tourism take it in the shorts?

Maybe Mexico should be using this lull in tourism to find out how else it can make serious money.

Oh yeah, besides the drug and human smuggling trade. This economy has probably thrown countless thousands smack dab into the drug trade as a means of last resort.

DENNIS - 4-3-2012 at 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
How often have we seen economies too dependent on tourism take it in the shorts?

Rosarito.....2015

http://www.highdesertdrifter.com/towns/aurora/aurora08.jpg

temporarilyoutofservice - 4-3-2012 at 05:06 PM

Quote:

Oh yeah, besides the drug and human smuggling trade. This economy has probably thrown countless thousands smack dab into the drug trade as a means of last resort.

You are absolutely right. And once they're involved, it haunts them.

But, I put forth the argument that the economic recession hasn't had any impact on Mexico. For one, tourists will come to Mexico because it's cheap vacation. There should be an influx of tourism in Mexico because it's the cheaper destination.

Also, no where in Mexico is stable enough to support tourism. Only those who are willing to accept the risk will come. No where in Mexico is safe.

Maybe we should all let it be. Maybe Mexico needs no more tourism from the U.S. I'm unsure how to fix it, but Mexicans aren't inclined to fix it. Let them sober up.

And let's face it, the average American tourists are the worst. They feel entitled, leave chit behind, need to be cleaned up after. No one in the world generally wants them.

There also has been an increase in tourism from South American countries, namely Brazil. What about that? What impact has that shown economically?

And let not this discussion be muddied by gringos trying to steal from gringos. They are half the problem and don't give a chit about MX but only their investments.

[Edited on 4-4-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]

temporarilyoutofservice - 4-3-2012 at 05:18 PM

Quote:

Before the troll interruptions, I tried to contribute to your questions. Funny how trolls always attack the person negatively, whereas others try to be constructive in dealing with the topic.

You were the troll. Smuggy.

Quote:

In my post, the first part did not deal with the negatives, of which there are some, but rather, I tried to answer the Rotarians' (Mexican National business people, American and Canadian Residents) questions. They were interested in promoting Mulege to attract more tourists. My answers, which were specific to Mulege, offered only positive, imagery.

Your points only offer positive imagery in how your estate can gain in value, not about the issues of Mulege or the lack of tourism.

Quote:

The context was thinking in terms of PR; ways in which Mexico could change things instead of shooting itself in the foot.

Get your house in order first.

Quote:

The second part, in which I talked about attracting investors did deal with your questions, I believe. It dealt with the problems that Mexico presents for the whole country, including Baja. I offered my solutions

So you can sell your POS? What? You thought you could turn 1000% on your investment and feed it to fresh meat?

Obviously, you are obvious in saying obviously and you are obvious in your intent. So much obvious that a newcomer can read you like a f****** book.

toneart - 4-3-2012 at 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
As a resident down here, I'm trying to figure out how more tourism is going to make my life better.

Maybe the lesson to be learned from the Great Recession is DIVERSIFY. How often have we seen economies too dependent on tourism take it in the shorts?

Maybe Mexico should be using this lull in tourism to find out how else it can make serious money.

Oh yeah, besides the drug and human smuggling trade. This economy has probably thrown countless thousands smack dab into the drug trade as a means of last resort.

Hook,
What you say is true. But what the Mulege Rotary was trying to do is figure how to make the locals' lives better; not ours necessarily. Tourism is what they had going well for them in the past. With very little money to get by, tourism is what they know and remember.

As you say, diversification is badly needed, but doubtful this can be solved on the local level with such few resources. This is compounded by the cultural trait, lack of imagination. They do things the way they have always been done. That is all they know.

So, again, this is a problem that the Mexican Government and Business entrepreneurs need to figure out. Then, the solutions, resources, and education have to be disseminated down to the local level. This is not a quick fix.

desertcpl - 4-3-2012 at 05:45 PM

Fight Fight Fight

hold on I just got in on this,, I need to go get my popcorn and a glass of wine, I dont want to miss this, its been to quiet around here as of late

tripledigitken - 4-3-2012 at 06:42 PM

The Mexican government should give a $500 voucher only good for beer and tequila to foreign tourists getting their FMM at the border ($50 day max for the voucher). That would get tourists to stay for awhile and spend their money on food, gas and hotels. For those with FM2's and 3's a monthly allotment of $500.

That would attract new tourists and keep expats around longer.

temporarilyoutofservice - 4-3-2012 at 06:50 PM

Sorry, I can't stop grinding on Mulege....

The Mulege "Rotarians" can't even speak Spanish but as toneart says, "it's to give them a better life."

How flocked up is that???

@toneart

I was the most constructive out of all comments. You just don't want to hear it. I basically gave the only sound advice in this thread, but no one wants to get their hands dirty.

Learn some Spanish.

[Edited on 4-4-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]

rts551 - 4-4-2012 at 10:08 AM

I don't get it... on the one hand you say turn Mexico into an armed society to curb violence against tourists (para 1)...Then you go on to say how much more likely you are to get shot near your American home (where you can carry a gun and I am glad I don't live where you do) Para 3. Your getting your one-liners from the talk shows a little mixed up aren't you?. .

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Just 3 ideas:

Allow tourist to (legally) arm themselves (and let the crooks know it). When the good people with guns out-number the bad people with guns, crime drops! Places with the stictest gun regulations have the highest crime (because only the criminals have guns).

Turn America back into the growing economy it once was, so we who like to travel can afford to, once again!

Pay the networks to provide true news that is balanced and not just negative about Mexico (even the one 'fair and balanced' network has been anti-Mexico). For every one tourist who is the victim of a crime, there are 1000 who have a great time in Baja. You are far more likely to be robbed or shot at around your American home than at a camp in Baja.

David K - 4-4-2012 at 10:14 AM

"on the one hand you say turn Mexico into an armed society"

Where did I say that (not that I disagree)?

I said allow tourists to legally arm themselves (so that we are not pigeons for the picking).

Not that we need too, as Mexico is safer for Americans than America is... BUT, to increase tourism (as many Americans don't go to Mexico because of safety concerns)!

rts551 - 4-4-2012 at 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
"on the one hand you say turn Mexico into an armed society"

Where did I say that (not that I disagree)?

I said allow tourists to legally arm themselves (so that we are not pigeons for the picking).

Not that we need too, as Mexico is safer for Americans than America is... BUT, to increase tourism (as many Americans don't go to Mexico because of safety concerns)!

What? and what you said was

"Allow tourist to (legally) arm themselves (and let the crooks know it). When the good people with guns out-number the bad people with guns, crime drops! Places with the stictest gun regulations have the highest crime (because only the criminals have guns)."

rts551 - 4-4-2012 at 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Ralph, you said I advocated TURNING MEXICO INTO AN ARMED SOCIETY.

I said ALLOW TOURISTS TO ARM THEMSELVES.

Tourists do not make the society of a foreign country do they?

I get it. Only arm the tourists....

and what you said

"You are far more likely to be robbed or shot at around your American home than at a camp in Baja. "

sancho - 4-4-2012 at 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

I said allow tourists to legally arm themselves (so that we are not pigeons for the picking).

Not that we need too, as Mexico is safer for Americans than America is... BUT, to increase tourism (as many Americans don't go to Mexico because of safety concerns)!

I respect your experience in Baja, but this quote has me
baffled. I have had to re read it a few times, to make
your position crystal clear, in your
opinion that to improve Tourism to Mex the Mex Govt
should allow Tourists to enter their Country with a
gun on them? You beleive more US Gringo tourists would
drive across the border if they were allowed to carry
their pistol from home? I guess the fly down Tourists
would be out of luck, since they can't board with a
heater? What stats are you using re: crime against
Tourists in Mex to come up with that conclusion?
Where are US Gringo tourists 'pigeons for the picking'?
You have totally lost me on this one

temporarilyoutofservice - 4-4-2012 at 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Not that we need too, as Mexico is safer for Americans than America is... BUT, to increase tourism (as many Americans don't go to Mexico because of safety concerns)!

That's a very unfounded claim, to say the least, and not supported by statistics nor is it supported by the stories and experiences of locals and myself.

Do you even live in Mexico? From where were your experiences in MX that you are basing these opinions of? And just that, opinions.

Regardless, the solutions you are providing are political ideologue that are not applicable in the real-world either in the U.S. or in MX. They are altogether, again, unfounded.

The only thing I have to say about guns as solution is allowing those with FM3s to easily obtain gun permits *if* they own property. As all of us living down here know, we're targets... oh, right, because Mexico is safe.

Thanks for the sig.

[Edited on 4-4-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]

David K - 4-4-2012 at 11:40 AM

I have no opinion of fly in tourists, as I am not one. I drive into Baja so I have the ability to travel about and explore, on a budget.

Guns USED to be carried by visitors to Mexico (I can give you a list of books with photos and text of this)... and even as few as 20 years ago, a hunting license was not a matter of pulling teeth to get.

When societies outlaw guns... then only outlaws will have guns... easy to understand.

In discussions with people (off Nomad), I hear often that if "we could bring in protection, we would feel safe... as it is now, without protection, we won't go to Mexico"

Now, because I have gone to Mexico pretty often since 1965, and have NEVER felt that I needed a gun to feel safe there. Here, in the USA (liberal California on the Left Coast), I know that criminals can break into my home with guns (they didn't register) hoping that I am unarmed!

IF all criminals KNEW every civilian could defend himself and shoot them... how low the crime rate would be.

Just yesterday in Oakland, with the few details we know, one insane person walked into a college and had all the people line up... then killed them.

How different it would be if (when he did that), every victim pulled a gun on him!??!

temporarilyoutofservice - 4-4-2012 at 12:17 PM

Note: I updated my prior post to demonstrate a solution related to guns for residents in MX. Update as follows: The only thing I have to say about guns as solution is allowing those with FM3s to easily obtain gun permits *if* they own property. As all of us living down here know, we're targets...

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Guns USED to be carried by visitors to Mexico (I can give you a list of books with photos and text of this)... and even as few as 20 years ago, a hunting license was not a matter of pulling teeth to get.

What else has changed in the past 20 years? Are you implying guns carried into Mexico created real safety for tourists?

Quote:

When societies outlaw guns... then only outlaws will have guns... easy to understand.

In discussions with people (off Nomad), I hear often that if "we could bring in protection, we would feel safe... as it is now, without protection, we won't go to Mexico"

Feeling safe is different than being safe. I am all for guns, I grew up as a cowboy. But I've also lived in densely populated cities and this wild west of gun control isn't applicable in all situations.

I'm not talking about MX outlawing guns (you are bringing it back to ideologue). But the lack of them is doing good for tourists.

Quote:

Now, because I have gone to Mexico pretty often since 1965, and have NEVER felt that I needed a gun to feel safe there. Here, in the USA (liberal California on the Left Coast), I know that criminals can break into my home with guns (they didn't register) hoping that I am unarmed!

IF all criminals KNEW every civilian could defend himself and shoot them... how low the crime rate would be.

The crime rate anywhere is lower than MX, even here in "safe" La Paz. The only places in U.S. with higher crime rate are those with more lax gun controls (Washington D.C., New Orleans -- need to check those).

I know you don't know, TJ police are a *lot* better than down here. Down here police and mafia are pretty much one and the same.

Quote:

Just yesterday in Oakland, with the few details we know, one insane person walked into a college and had all the people line up... then killed them.

How different it would be if (when he did that), every victim pulled a gun on him!??!

Advocating for guns in colleges? Great. Also, you're applying your ideologue to one situation and how it would play out. Have you ever been to Oakland? Or even *lived*.... I have. I've also lived in New York City and not the friendly parts.

Let's see how the crime right escalates with more relaxed gun control in both NY and Oakland. chit, even a taxi driver is willing to beat you down if you insist he ripped you off (which he obviously had).

To put the nail in the coffin: Listen, most of the gringos here are flocking off-their-rockers some are even felons. Let's make it easier for them to obtain guns?

The problem is social and political corruption. I think the consensus from the experienced down here is: we can't do anything and if it gets bad enough, we bail. And violent crime is definitely escalating. Pay attention!

Any denying it will need to be on your conscious if advocating that MX is safe for tourism while publicly encouraging travel to MX without forewarning and a disclaimer.

[Edited on 4-4-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]

[Edited on 4-4-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]

paranewbi - 4-4-2012 at 12:50 PM

temporarilyoutofservice sounds awful familiar for a newbi....

willardguy - 4-4-2012 at 04:15 PM

how about do it all at the local oxxo, where we pay our telephone and electric bills?

Have Gun Will Travel

SFandH - 4-4-2012 at 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
The Mexican government should give a $500 voucher only good for beer and tequila to foreign tourists getting their FMM at the border.

That's a great idea, I'm all for it. Maybe a pass for a free hour with three or four of TJ's working girls too!!

And we could go further with David K's idea and give tourists guns. Man, a bunch of drunk, armed guys wandering around the TJ's red light district late at night.

Just like the old west, and totally free. What fun!!

Excellent idea David K. Everybody should be armed. You're one radical dude. :lol:

[Edited on 4-4-2012 by SFandH]

rts551 - 4-4-2012 at 04:58 PM

OK Wyatt,

Just what FACT do you base your conclusion on. Are you aware of the violent crime rates in two of the most liberal gun states, Arizona and Alaska, are and where they rank nationally?

Just the facts there cowboy, just the facts please.

rts551 - 4-4-2012 at 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I thought the places with the strictest gun laws (Washington DC and New York City) had the HIGHEST crime???

Anyway... this is about Baja and increasing tourism... and people that I have talked to said to me, if they could carry a gun they would go to Mexican (some of them said 'again')...

Stay on target... :light:

OK cowboy. what Factual info do you have that tourists packing will increase tourism.

I for one, would worry about people like you carrying guns in Baja.

rts551 - 4-4-2012 at 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I heard it with my own ears. This is a DISCUSSION forum, and we are exchanging ideas to help Mexico... well I am, anyway... You are just taking up bandwidth to try and tarnish my character with mis-quotes and spins (again).

Honestly Ralph, why do I bother you so... too much Baja? Because I am in favor of the people being in charge and not some government agency? Please give it a rest... I don't hate you or follow you around the Internet.

Just trying to get the facts and find out how you come up with these things. Too much baja??? Another weird one. You know I I live there most of the time. How did you come up with that one.

Just cause you heard it makes it factual? All this leads me to be thankful you DO NOT carry a gun in Baja.
Why do you want to cut off the DISCUSSION?

Pages: 1 2