BajaNomad

Lost Ship of the Desert coming to TV Jan. 2, 2015

David K - 12-22-2014 at 01:08 PM

Baja Nomad 'dezertmag' (John Grasson) will be on TV next month talking about the Lost Ship of the Desert... a ship that sailed up the Sea Of Cortez into the Salton Sea area, hundreds of years ago... There is a short preview of the show, following the commercial:

http://www.ahctv.com/tv-shows/myth-hunters/myth-hunters-vide...

John is the publisher of Dezert Magazine, and all the original Desert Magazines are online, too: http://dezertmagazine.com/



[Edited on 1-2-2015 by David K]

AKgringo - 12-22-2014 at 02:16 PM

If my recollection of the history of the Salton Sea is correct, the level was raised in the early 1900's by an accidental, or illegal diversion of the Colorado River.
If there was ever a passage to the Sea of Cortez during the early days of exploration, it probably wouldn't have been deep enough for the keel of an ocean going ship.
I say myth!

[Edited on 12-22-2014 by AKgringo]

David K - 12-22-2014 at 06:05 PM

If you watch the short video for the show, a map gives a possible explanation in brief. There is a thread here on Nomad about the Colorado River history and how it was diverted into the Salton Sink many times in history, creating Lake Cahuilla and lastly, the Salton Sea.

From the video above:

David K - 12-22-2014 at 06:05 PM

Personally, I believe the Laguna Salada version of the story better...

[Edited on 12-23-2014 by David K]

AKgringo - 12-22-2014 at 07:15 PM

I will have to watch the film, but I still have two problems with the myth.
The first is the time line. There is no question that the Salton Sink was full and connected to the Sea of Cortez in the past, but if it was so during visits by early explorers then it dried up far faster than all of the other sinks on the east side of the Sierras. There would be a lot more lake during the days of prospectors and settlers.
The second question is about the vessel. Given the power of an un-dammed Colorado River meeting the significant tides of the Sea of Cortez, I just can't see a ships captain risking his ship and all their lives exploring that channel. When captain Cook was exploring the inlet that now bears his name in Alaska, he anchored his ships and explored the tributaries in his long boats. I could see that happening, but a seagoing vessel, no way!

P.S. What is the Laguna Salda version?

[Edited on 12-23-2014 by AKgringo]

KaceyJ - 12-22-2014 at 07:59 PM

You can see the remaining pieces of the bow of the ship just west of the hemp research station at Brawley . All the locals know where it is

AKgringo - 12-22-2014 at 08:28 PM

Hemp research station? I suppose that would help you see just about anything!
Kidding aside, thanks for that information. Can it be determined if it was a ship, or a shallow draft longboat?

Date

bajaguy - 12-22-2014 at 08:31 PM

Be nice if we knew the date

Lost ship stories

John M - 12-22-2014 at 09:00 PM

In the early 1950s some newspaper people resurrected the publication of the "Calico Print" - an 1880s era paper from Calico, a rich mining area east of Barstow.

The revived Calico Print was initially a newspaper format but by June of 1952 that was changed and it was printed as a small folio. The final edition in November 1953 carried, on page 31, "Lost Ship of the Desert" a three page article. A couple of other lost ship stories accompanied this main article.

I haven't looked at the trailer David linked to, nor read the Lost Ship story as published sixty plus years ago. I'll save that for tomorrow. Enough to say there are lots of great desert stories!

More later.




November 1953 Calico Print - Harold & Lucile Weight editors




With this map I guess it's not "lost" any longer!

This edition of Calico Print has several altogether differing versions of the legend. Each was written by noted desert writers and researchers such as Paul Wilhelm, L. Burr Belden, and Ed Stevens. And as David K notes, Choral Pepper also got in on the action.

John M



[Edited on 12-23-2014 by John M]

David K - 12-22-2014 at 11:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
I will have to watch the film, but I still have two problems with the myth.
The first is the time line. There is no question that the Salton Sink was full and connected to the Sea of Cortez in the past, but if it was so during visits by early explorers then it dried up far faster than all of the other sinks on the east side of the Sierras. There would be a lot more lake during the days of prospectors and settlers.
The second question is about the vessel. Given the power of an un-dammed Colorado River meeting the significant tides of the Sea of Cortez, I just can't see a ships captain risking his ship and all their lives exploring that channel. When captain Cook was exploring the inlet that now bears his name in Alaska, he anchored his ships and explored the tributaries in his long boats. I could see that happening, but a seagoing vessel, no way!

P.S. What is the Laguna Salda version?

[Edited on 12-23-2014 by AKgringo]


I posted Choral Pepper's pearl treasure stories in 2004 and 2007: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=26704


Here is the part of Choral Pepper's chapter on the lost ship:

Juan de Iturbe, explorer for the King and pearler on his own account, was first to sail the entire length along the California Gulf Coast and into the Colorado River in 1615. After loading his fifty-ton ship with a great fortune in pearls, he sailed northward beyond San Felipe, but instead of finding the mouth of the Colorado River, he discovered himself grounded on a sandbar in a vast sea surrounded by mountains. Certain that he had discovered the long-sought Straits of Anian that gave entrance to the Pacific Ocean, even though it had already been determined that this was not so, Iturbe stayed there for a month waiting for a storm or enough wind to carry him off the bar. At last the gods favored him with a great cloudburst, but water gushed down from the high mountains with such fury that waves rendered his ship unmanageable.

Still dreaming that he and his crew would be ennobled by the King and endowed with measureless fame and fortune, Iturbe continued his exploration by land. When supplies ran low, they dried flesh from antelope and wild sheep. After several months of futile searching, they climbed to the top of the highest mountain and identified the Colorado River winding toward the northeast, but the mouth of it was as elusive as the supposed Straits running to the west.


With their ship finally seaworthy, they attempted again to sail around the landlocked sea in search of an exit, but somehow, as if controlled by a sorcerer, the water had receded. Iturbe once again found himself grounded, this time on soft, boggy ground from which the crew barely escaped alive. With little choice, they abandoned the ship with its vast treasure of pearls, leaving it poised upright with its keel buried in sand as if a-sail, and managed to straggle across the sandy waste back to the Gulf where they eventually were rescued.

Iturbe's aborted pearling adventure gave birth to one of Southern California's greatest lost treasure legends, as recounted in Desert Lore of Southern California by this author.

CortezBlue - 12-24-2014 at 10:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy  
Be nice if we knew the date


It is on here in Fenix, AZ Jan 2 at 8pm on directv chnl 287

Gulliver - 12-25-2014 at 06:55 AM

I believe that some of the iron hull of the steam boat Uncle Sam is still out in the desert near Yuma. Sunk and then washed away around 1852.

Closest thing to reality in all of these stories.

David K - 12-25-2014 at 08:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy  
Be nice if we knew the date


It is in the link... here is the schedule: http://www.ahctv.com/tv-shows/myth-hunters/myth-hunters-tv-s...

Tioloco - 12-25-2014 at 09:02 AM

Gulliver-
Any more info on that Uncle Sam? I am interested in seeing that.

San Diego - Dish Network

bajaguy - 12-25-2014 at 09:08 AM

Friday, January 2 - 7PM on Ch 195

Gulliver - 12-25-2014 at 02:43 PM

Tioloco,
The info is in a book at my house on Lopez Island in the San Juans. I'll contact a friend with a copy of the book and get back with any info I get.

From 'Lost Desert Bonanzas', 1963

David K - 12-25-2014 at 04:38 PM









KaceyJ - 12-26-2014 at 07:40 AM

One interesting note to the above maps that David posted is that there are extensive old dry oyster beds in the area near the named "Yuha Spg" (spring)

The size of the lake or inland sea was much bigger than indicated by the maps

David K - 12-26-2014 at 09:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by KaceyJ  
One interesting note to the above maps that David posted is that there are extensive old dry oyster beds in the area near the named "Yuha Spg" (spring)

The size of the lake or inland sea was much bigger than indicated by the maps


Been to the Yuha Oyster Shell Beds with my folks who supported my rock hound hobby... that was in the 1960's before I-8 was built. Also went to the Yuha Well to the south of the oyster hills. I am thinking those were sea water shells, from when the sea levels were once much higher, millions of years ago?

South of San Felipe, at several hundred feet above sea level and 5 miles from the gulf coast on can see the exact same type of oyster fossils.





KaceyJ - 12-26-2014 at 09:28 AM

"South of San Felipe, at several hundred feet above sea level and 5 miles from the gulf coast on can see the exact same type of oyster fossils. "

That's incredible , how could that be? ;D

bajaguy - 12-26-2014 at 09:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by KaceyJ  
"South of San Felipe, at several hundred feet above sea level and 5 miles from the gulf coast on can see the exact same type of oyster fossils. "

That's incredible , how could that be? ;D






Hiking boots???

David K - 12-26-2014 at 09:41 AM

Hi Kacey,

Some people think the sea levels are rising today, and it's man's fault!

Well, they were once much higher and that was long before man was around!

Things go in cycles, it's natural and there's nothing little ol' man can do to change it. We are talking millions of years or history.

The sea levels were so low many thousands of years ago, man walked from Siberia to Alaska, and they have rising much since... not from automobiles, factories, or politicians either. My memory living on the beach and camping in Baja goes back 50+ years now, and the sea levels are the same or unnoticeable for that 'short' period. No panic needed.

güéribo - 12-26-2014 at 12:58 PM

Interesting thread! Thanks.

David K - 1-2-2015 at 08:51 AM

Posted by 'DezertMagazine' on Facebook:

Lost Ship of the Mojave TONIGHT!!!!

Please feel free to share with your family, friends and like minded people!

Don't forget to catch this show on Friday Jan 2nd on the American Heroes Channel ( Direct TV 287 Dish 195 ) at 7 or 10PM.

David K - 1-2-2015 at 10:41 AM

Cool... from DezertMag's Facebook page:

bajamedic - 1-2-2015 at 02:20 PM

I have my DVR set to record this as I seem to re-watch my Baja related stories such as Rip to the Tip, The Trail of Missions, etc. JH:P

[Edited on 1-2-2015 by bajamedic]

David K - 1-2-2015 at 02:38 PM

Glad you like to see them... I hope the advertisers continue to support these TV shows, and if they know people are watching, then great.

I am looking forward to Trail of Missions 2015!

Gulliver - the steamer Uncle Sam - some stuff

John M - 1-2-2015 at 05:13 PM

Douglas Martin, on pages 170 - 175 of Yuma Crossing says that the Uncle Sam (one of only two side-wheel steamships on the Colorado) was put into service by December 3, 1852. It didn't last long for by January 1854 it had been replaced by the General Jessup and just a few months later the Uncle Sam "sank at her moorings...and stayed there." Martin doesn't provide any more details as to the location which was obviously along the Colorado.

However, Richard Lingenfelter in the well-respected Steamboats on the Colorado River 1852-1916 was more specific. On page 11 Lingenfelter writes "...the Uncle Sam had been tied up at the old ferry crossing six miles below the fort [Fort Yuma] to be overhauled and made ready for the new machinery. There, shortly before [Captain James] Turnbull's return, someone forgot to put a bilge plug in tight and she filled with water and sank. Several men from the fort went down to help raise her. They worked tirelessly for two days before she broke her moorings and disappeared in the swift muddy current. The first steamboat on the Colorado thus went to an early grave." Lingenfelter puts May 1853 as when it sank.

edit: June 22, 1853 is the date of the sinking of the Uncle Sam as written in "Fort Yuma on the Colorado River" by Col. H.B. Warfield, USAF ret. (pg 75)

John M

[Edited on 1-3-2015 by John M]

Gulliver - 1-2-2015 at 05:23 PM

I'll find that reference n the Spring when I go back North.

David K - 1-2-2015 at 05:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John M  
Douglas Martin, on pages 170 - 175 of Yuma Crossing says that the Uncle Sam (one of only two side-wheel steamships on the Colorado) was put into service by December 3, 1852. It didn't last long for by January 1854 it had been replaced by the General Jessup and just a few months later the Uncle Sam "sank at her moorings...and stayed there." Martin doesn't provide any more details as to the location which was obviously along the Colorado.

However, Richard Lingenfelter in the well-respected Steamboats on the Colorado River 1852-1916 was more specific. On page 11 Lingenfelter writes "...the Uncle Sam had been tied up at the old ferry crossing six miles below the fort [Fort Yuma] to be overhauled and made ready for the new machinery. There, shortly before [Captain James] Turnbull's return, someone forgot to put a bilge plug in tight and she filled with water and sank. Several men from the fort went down to help raise her. They worked tirelessly for two days before she broke her moorings and disappeared in the swift muddy current. The first steamboat on the Colorado thus went to an early grave." Lingenfelter puts May 1853 as when it sank.

John M


Here is something I posted in April 2013 that is related...

From Wikipedia...




Port Isabel was a seaport established in 1865 during the American Civil War in Sonora, Mexico near the mouth of the Colorado River on the Sea of Cortez to support the increased river traffic caused by the gold rush that began in 1862 on the Colorado River and the Yuma Quartermaster Depot newly established in 1864 to support the Army posts in the Arizona Military District.

Port Isabel replaced Robinson's Landing as the place where cargo was unloaded in the river from seagoing craft on to flatbottomed steamboats and carried up to Fort Yuma and points further north on the river.[1]

Port Isabel, was situated on the east bank of the Colorado River on its channel east of Montague Island about 21⁄2 miles from its mouth, at the first good landing place, the shores below being of very soft mud. Port Isabel, served as a location for repairing the river steamers and barges. Additionally about 2 miles above Port Isabel was a site called Ship Yard, which had a few frame buildings where steamboats could be constructed or repaired.[2]

The arrival of the Southern Pacific Railroad in Yuma in 1877 signaled the end of Port Isabel. Trade by sea was replaced with cargo carried by rail. In 1878, George Alonzo Johnson sold his Colorado Steam Navigation Company to the Southern Pacific Railroad. Yuma then became the head of navigation for steamboats operating on the river. Port Isabel was abandoned in 1879.

Here is a 1919 map, with a Pta Isabel shown, lower right by the mouth of the Colorado, Sonora side:




On a 1930 map, the name is cut off, lower right side (Port Isabel & Ship Yards):





More stuff and a satellite map where Nomad PCmaps thinks he found Port Isabel: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=35278

Fios customer

John M - 1-2-2015 at 06:20 PM

We found the show to be shown tonight, the 2nd, at 7:00 p.m. on channel 125 - at least here in the high desert.

John M

willardguy - 1-2-2015 at 09:17 PM

reminded me of a story about a nomad that was SURE he had found a "lost mission" :lol:

Watched it, nice way to present a fable

John M - 1-2-2015 at 09:20 PM

The story told in this television episode sorta follows a story written by Fred Holladay in the 1988 pamphlet Heritage Tales published by the City of San Bernardino Historical and Pioneer Society. Holladay's story is quite similar to the TV show we just watched except Holladay tells of an additional trek by Charlie Clusker.

I can't say much more about the details in this little pamphlet except to say we are heading for the desert to do a search of our own. We'll be back when the water runs out - ship or no ship.

Thanks David K for the heads up on this show.

John M



[Edited on 1-3-2015 by John M]

David K - 1-3-2015 at 10:47 AM

Have fun John...

Myths and legends are the inspiration that often gets people out of their comfort zone and has them visiting the desert or Baja. Choral Pepper (Desert Magazine) felt strongly about how much the desert had to offer and believed in the telling of these old stories to get people out of the city and enjoy/ appreciate the desert.

Baja has plenty of myths and legends, too. Lost missions, lost graves, pearls, gold and silver are all there.

In 2009, we Nomads found one of Pepper's mystery sites she thought could be the lost and forgotten mission 'Santa Maria Magdalena', discovered in 1966... http://vivabaja.com/109

In 2011, a group of us Nomads went looking for the legendary lost mission of Santa Isabel: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=52696

Books have wrongly stated that some missions have been destroyed by road builders or other calamities. In one of these cases, I discovered the mission site was not built over by a road, but only planted over in a field, Santo Tomas mission site #2: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=40505

The next legend mystery we want to find is the lost grave of Melchior Diaz, the first Spaniard to walk into California, 1540-41. I have posted a few times about it and I have the original letter sent to Choral Pepper in 1967 from the 1930's rock pile discoverer, Walter Henderson that started the excitement. It was buried in the boxes of Desert Magazine papers and photos given to me following Choral's death in 2002.

Here is one thread on the Diaz Grave: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=26703




güéribo - 1-3-2015 at 12:27 PM

David . . . on your trip to find the lost Santa Isabel mission, you should have taken this book along! It states quite clearly where it is. ;)

David K - 1-3-2015 at 03:37 PM

Ha ha... I have that book... and we were close... north of El Marmol, just as the book said! lol