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JDCanuck
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We were a bit concerned about bacterial growth at lower temps than 120 degrees, but yes, if its not used for showers they would work but were bout as
expensive to install.
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mtgoat666
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A heat pump water heater seems lime it may be more complex than necessary. I have on demand gas and elec water heaters, they work great. In san
diego heat pumps dont work well except in certain weather…. Never seen $$ evaluation show that heat pump makes econ sense in coastal med climate…
maybe works in BCS?
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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JDCanuck
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MTGoat: If you are on solar and want electric hot water tanks, these are stated to save 70-75% of the electricity, and would certainly decrease the
solar battery load in non solar periods. Hot water was the one major load we experienced. We temporarily installed a gas on demand heater downstream
of our small electric tanks for high demands, but wanted to eventually replace with more efficient electric. On demands had the disadvantage of
scaling up very quickly in very hard water and wasn't expected to last long. A hybrid costs a bit less than a small electric tank followed by an on
demand.
[Edited on 7-19-2024 by JDCanuck]
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JDCanuck
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More recent news on EV sales in Mexico
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/23/how-chinese-ev-automakers-ar...
Last year, China was the leading car supplier to Mexico, exporting $4.6 billion worth of vehicles to the country, according to the Mexican Ministry of
Economy. Even customers wary of EVs have been won over by affordable price tags. Tesla rival BYD sells its Dolphin Mini in Mexico for around 398,800
pesos, or about $21,300, a little over half the price of the cheapest Tesla.
Growth in 2023 was extremely high, altho from a very low percentage overall:
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/03/19/evs-grow-94-yoy-in-mexi...
[Edited on 8-26-2024 by JDCanuck]
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RFClark
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JD,
I just saw your 7/18 post haven't seen any heat pump water heaters in BCS but there are a lot of heat pump pool heaters. For the Goat, heat pump
heaters, both air and water work well in a climate like SD. They produce almost 3X the heat of a straight resistance heater. We use them for heating
the house from both solar and battery. Propane here is still the best bang for your buck for hot water especially with a solar preheater.
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RFClark
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L,
I’m not a fan of any sort of tank water heater especially in Mexico where much of the water is very hard or has a very high mineral content. Propane
demand water heaters are very efficient and don’t fill up with minerals as quickly as tank water heaters do. They also cost less.
That said, you’re correct. In a cold climate it would steal heat from wherever it was located which would need to be made up by a different heater.
A conventional water heater would add needed heat to its location in a cold climate.
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JDCanuck
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RFClark: According to the sites I have read, the one condition where you wish to avoid On-Demand heaters is where the hardness is extreme as they are
far more likely to scale up due to the smaller water flow diameters and require frequent chemical flushing and feed water softeners in such cases or
the warranty will not be honored. There may be exceptions to this with more expensive non-scaling tubing but this was why we chose tank type heaters
in the first place.
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mtgoat666
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Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  | | RFClark: According to the sites I have read, the one condition where you wish to avoid On-Demand heaters is where the hardness is extreme as they are
far more likely to scale up due to the smaller water flow diameters and require frequent chemical flushing and feed water softeners in such cases or
the warranty will not be honored. There may be exceptions to this with more expensive non-scaling tubing but this was why we chose tank type heaters
in the first place. |
I have tankless gas water heater. Descale twice per year. Easy peasy. Similar to descaling my espresso machine.
If i were to do it again, i would choose electric tankless heater, as i have excess net metering kwh.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | RFClark: According to the sites I have read, the one condition where you wish to avoid On-Demand heaters is where the hardness is extreme as they are
far more likely to scale up due to the smaller water flow diameters and require frequent chemical flushing and feed water softeners in such cases or
the warranty will not be honored. There may be exceptions to this with more expensive non-scaling tubing but this was why we chose tank type heaters
in the first place. |
I have tankless gas water heater. Descale twice per year. Easy peasy. Similar to descaling my espresso machine.
If i were to do it again, i would choose electric tankless heater, as i have excess net metering kwh. |
Just for comparison MTGoat: Is your water hardness in excess of 300 ppm hardness (extreme) or below 200 ppm (very hard)? Degree of hardness is the
determining factor here. Ours was tested at very extreme at 365ppm. Salt based Water Softeners was not a desirable solution either as our Engineered
septic system was not compatible with salts.
With the rapidly declining water aquifers in BCS hardness is becoming more and more of an issue.
[Edited on 8-26-2024 by JDCanuck]
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RFClark
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All,
The house we sold in San Felipe had the same Bosch instant water heater for about 10 years. I serviced it several times and noted little to no buildup
of minerals even though the water there had a lot of minerals.
I think the primary reason was the way we used it. First we treat our water with hydrogen peroxide. We also ran an Ion Exchange water softener on the
hot water line. We set the hot water temperature to about 105F. The lower temperature cooks out less of the minerals.
The problem most users have is fluctuating temperatures in showers. Primarily this is caused by the flow rate of the shower being below the minimum
flow the water heater requires to function correctly. This causes it to cycle on and off.
Our best solution has been to adjust the temperature of the hot water to a point where little or no cold water is required to temper the hot water. We
also have increased the flow of the shower head so that the flow is above the minimum required.
Our current house has 2 instant water heaters with digital controls for temperature. They are set to 42C in the summer. I recently inspected one while
fixing a bad solder joint and saw no buildup after 18 months of daily use. We use H2O2 in the water here too!
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | We set the hot water temperature to about 105F. The lower temperature cooks out less of the minerals.
Our current house has 2 instant water heaters with digital controls for temperature. They are set to 42C in the summer.
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"First, let’s talk about the most deadly temperature for bacteria growth. Temperatures between 95°F and 115°F offer the perfect environment for
legionella bacteria. This temperature range will not only encourage growth, but multiplication. Keeping your water heater in this temperature range
for too long will cause a massive buildup of bacteria."
https://www.corroprotec.com/blog/does-hot-water-kill-bacteri...
My water is gravity fed from a big tinako on my roof. The water is warmer in the summer than I would even like it to be and my hot water tank is
turned off completely from May through Sept./Oct.
[Edited on 8-27-2024 by surabi]
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RFClark
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Is there a part of the water is only heated when it’s being used and room temperature all the rest of the time that you do not understand?
It’s not a tank of continuously heated water. The water is heated on demand for immediate use! So bacteria growth is not any more of an issue than
it is in the cold water. It’s also our standard practice to add chlorine and H2O2 to all well water storage tanks weekly.
[Edited on 8-27-2024 by RFClark]
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surabi
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I know how hot water tanks work, it isn't necessary to mansplain with a diagram.
That was general information regarding at what temps bacteria can proliferate. There are various types of hot water tanks- pass-through tankless like
yours, on-demand but with a small tank, and normal tank heaters, either gas or electric. People thinking they can turn any hot water heater down to
105, to cut down on mineral build-up, is what I was addressing.
[Edited on 8-27-2024 by surabi]
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JDCanuck
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Surabi is correct for water stored at the temperature range she noted, and thats an issue that was very common in Canada when everyone turned their
hot water tanks down to 110 or lower to save energy. A randomized study found legionella bacteria present in 80% of the tanks tested. I would mainly
be concerned about this in solar heated tanks or storage type hot water tanks held below 120 degrees for any length of time.
On Demand tanks should not have the same issues as the water is heated on demand and is well below that temp range when not being used. Keeping the
temperature below 120 would definitely reduce scaling as the deposits go parabolic around 120 degrees and higher. We fed our on demand heaters at 130
to feed our rather large jetted tubs as the tiny 20 gal hot water tanks originally installed could not feed enough hot water for them, especially due
to the uninsulated hot water supply lines. They likely would have been fine for shower use.
The best and likely cheapest to install system for our particular spot would have been a hybrid hot water heat pump tank with 40-50 gal storage tank,
if it was available. Unfortunately they aren't...yet.
[Edited on 8-27-2024 by JDCanuck]
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RFClark
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A major source of bacterial water contamination is caused by rooftop water tanks used in both gravity feed and booster pump water systems.
The water in these tanks is often hot and stagnant durning the summer. A number of the bad bacteria and amoeba found in then are quite or completely
chlorine resistant. Ozone or H2O2 in conjunction with chlorine used on a regular basis is effective against most of these bugs. Not keeping your
rooftop tank disinfected is the major source of both hot and “cold” water problems. Inground storage also minimizes the growth of bugs as the
water is usually cooler and easer to access to add chemicals.
To be as safe as is possible adding a final UV water sterilizer is a great Choice.
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surabi
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The water in my rooftop tank definitely gets hot in the summer, probably a perfect temp for bacterial growth. However, it is never "stagnant", as the
water in it is constantly being used and fresh water pumped up into it from the cistern.
I have never disinfected it in 18 years except a couple of times when we drained and moved it so the roof under it could be repainted with waterproof
paint, when I thoroughly cleaned it.
Never had any hot or cold water problems.
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