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MrBillM
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Attaboy Lou !
You've convinced me Oxxo. I will do my best to resist those inner Demons and proffer my opinions and exceptions with logic and grace to the extent
possible.
Although I have sincerely offered said opinions regarding this question of Conscientious behavior versus Legal requirements, I'm really one of the
Good Guys since EVERY vehicle I have registered in the State of California (7) is in compliance with the Smog Laws pertaining to the County in which I
am an established legal resident, including those which I maintain in Baja.
[Edited on 12-10-2006 by MrBillM]
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oxxo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
The only point I try to make is that there are many places in Calif. and in many other states of the USofA that do NOT require periodic smog checks.
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You have used a technique that magicians use called "misdirection." You change the subject and imply that is what I said.
This thread was started by someone inquiring about a county that DOES require smog testing. It has nothing to do with counties that don't require
smog testing.
| Quote: | | In Calif it is only people living in certain areas that the CAB thinks should be checked. They do not think it is necessary or advisable for
vehicles registered in Imperial and several other counties to spend money on the bi-annual checks. |
As you are well aware most California counties do require smog testing and it won't be long until it is required in all counties.
Smog testing does reduce polutants. This from the CARB website:
Year 2000, California's population grows to 34 million. There are now 23.4 million registered vehicles in the state. Annual vehicle miles traveled
(VMT) reaches 280 billion miles. The statewide average for vehicular nitrogen oxides emissions is 2.1 grams / mile; the average for hydrocarbons is
1.6 grams / mile. Cumulative California vehicle emissions for nitrogen oxides and hydrocarbons are about 1.2 million tons per year. This is 200,000
tons / year less than 1990 despite an increase in VMT of 40 billion miles per year.
Ozone: The South Coast Air Basin's maximum one-hour ozone concentration recorded is 0.18 parts per million. The area has no Stage 1 Smog Alerts
(0.20 ppm ozone) this year, down from 42 Alerts in 1990. "
Good for the people and State of California!
| Quote: | | a bigger bureaucracy with more underlings so the salaries can be increased. |
So I guess your point is that clean air is just not worth the buracracy? But you apparently do agree with me that if people just did the responsible
thing and get their cars smogged voluntarily every couple fo years, we wouldn't need that big buracracy. They do have smog stations in Imperial
County for those who want to do the right thing even though they aren't required to. Good for those folks in Imperial County who voluntarily smog
their cars.
Tuning our cars to meet emission standards is worth the expense and inconvenience.
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bajaguy
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California Counties
Thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in.......
Which counties require a smog inspection for the registration renewal?
Alameda Butte Colusa Contra Costa Fresno
Glenn Kern Kings Los Angeles Madera
Marin Merced Monterey Napa Nevada
Orange Sacramento San Benito San Francisco San Joaquin
San Luis Obispo San Mateo Santa Barbara Santa Clara Santa Cruz
Shasta Solano Stanislaus Sutter Tehama
Tulare Ventura Yolo Yuba
There are six counties that require smog certifications within certain Zip Codes only. These counties are:
El Dorado, Placer, Riverside, San Bernardino, San Diego, and Sonoma.
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bajalou
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"hey do have smog stations in Imperial County for those who want to do the right thing even though they aren't required to. Good for those folks in
Imperial County who voluntarily smog their cars."
They have smog stations in Imperial county so that vehicles can be checked when title is transfered or vehicle is brought in from another state. The
certificate is required in both these cases.
And for oxxo and those that feel the same way, here's a site that lets you pay to get rid of that guilty feeling.
http://www.terrapass.com/
[Edited on 12-11-2006 by bajalou]
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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MrBillM
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Smogless Electric Alternative ?
Speaking of which, the reports in the news that I have read make the case that, with today's technology, Hybrids are a far more efficient alternative
to Strictly Gasoline or Diesel vehicles. Three problems exist with Electric cars.
First is the current Battery Technology and the relative short life of those batteries. If Electric cars were a significant percentage of the total,
battery production, disposal and recycling would present huge potential pollution problems.
Number two is the fact that it is questionable whether the Electric cars would improve the pollution problem or simply transfer it from the Urban
areas to other areas where the Electricity would need to be produced.
Third is producing the Electricity itself. At present, during summer months especially, we are experiencing shortages of commercial power and the
pace of bringing new production online is moving at a snail's pace. Any significant use of Electric cars would result in massive shortages unless
something is done quickly to enhance that production.
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oxxo
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Good, an intelligent discussion!
| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Speaking of which, the reports in the news that I have read make the case that, with today's technology, Hybrids are a far more efficient alternative
to Strictly Gasoline or Diesel vehicles. Three problems exist with Electric cars.
First is the current Battery Technology and the relative short life of those batteries. |
The folks at Tesla are predicting a battery life of 100K to 200K miles for their cars with current technology (it depends on how the car is used,
climate, maintenance, etc.). As I recall they have a prorated warranty on the battery pack to 100K. They claim that technology is changing rapidly
and battery life should be increased in the next year or two.
| Quote: | | If Electric cars were a significant percentage of the total, battery production, disposal and recycling would present huge potential pollution
problems. |
Valid point. But it is my understanding that worn out batteries are being recycled into new batteries and do not become part of the land fill. Again
this technology will change with more R/D.
| Quote: | | Number two is the fact that it is questionable whether the Electric cars would improve the pollution problem or simply transfer it from the Urban
areas to other areas where the Electricity would need to be produced. |
Again a valid point. I guess it depends on what type of fuel you are using to produce electricity. Regardless, the amount of polution dispensed by
the dirtiest power plant (Morro Bay for example) does not equal the polution caused by the hydrocarbon powered cars that it would replace.
| Quote: | | Third is producing the Electricity itself. At present, during summer months especially, we are experiencing shortages of commercial power and the
pace of bringing new production online is moving at a snail's pace. Any significant use of Electric cars would result in massive shortages unless
something is done quickly to enhance that production. |
Bingo! This is the trickiest problem to solve. I don't have any solutions to that one.
There are currently a couple more problems with electric cars.
First, Tesla says that it will take a minimum of 4 hours to charge their battery pack depending on state of discharge. So every 250 miles you have to
put the car away to charge the batteries. If the car is used for around town commuting, this is not a problem since you would merely charge it
overnight. Length of charge becomes a problem for long commutes. Tesla admits that they need to have something that will charge a car in 10 minutes.
That technology is not here yet. Costco is putting in charging stations at their stores in California. It is good marketing. Spend an hour in our
store and we'll give you a free partial charge.
Second, I am concerned about the fall off in power as the battery discharges. For example, your flashlight starts getting dimmer as the batteries
discharge. Will that happen to the Tesla car? Tesla has failed to answer that question for me and it is an important one.
Thanks Bill for asking good questions.
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Bob and Susan
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if it's like an inverter it's set to discharge the batteries to a certin level then just shut off
it has transformers inside to keep the same performance while the batteries are discharging
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oxxo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
if it's like an inverter it's set to discharge the batteries to a certin level then just shut off
it has transformers inside to keep the same performance while the batteries are discharging |
Well that's about right. I just talked to a friend of mine this afternoon who is an auto dealer in the Portland area, Ron Tonkin. He is very
familiar with the electric car concept. (He's trying to get the Tesla dealership for Oregon) He said the electric cars are set up to run at full
speed until 80% discharged and then they shut down automatically, with some theoretical charge left. He said that there are some very exciting
concepts that will be introduced in the next 12 to 24 months. One he is particularly excited about is still under wraps and wouldn't give me any
details other than a 4 door family sedan, very plush, 220 mile range @ 80 mph cruising speed, under $40K in 2006 dollars, and probably Federal tax
incentives.
Perhaps smogging cars will become a thing of the past if electric cars catch on. Even though I smog my cars, I don't like the expense and
inconvenience either.
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Dave
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Yeah, how?
| Quote: | Originally posted by oxxo
The folks at Tesla are predicting a battery life of 100K to 200K miles for their cars with current technology (it depends on how the car is used,
climate, maintenance, etc.). As I recall they have a prorated warranty on the battery pack to 100K. They claim that technology is changing
rapidly and battery life should be increased in the next year or two.
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At 100k that's 400 cycles (250m x 400= 100K). Where do they get off claiming "rapidly changing" battery technology? Companies say it's just around the
corner. I don't see it.
Unless they reinvent the physics a battery will always be dinosaur technology., Now, if you wanna talk fuel cells... I'll listen.
[Edited on 12-12-2006 by Dave]
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MrBillM
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Expense ?
Oxxo:
"Perhaps smogging cars will become a thing of the past if electric cars catch on. Even though I smog my cars, I don't like the expense and
inconvenience either."
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Not to be a nit-picker, but given the extravagant cost of present-day Electric car technology, the short range, time required for recharging and the
dearth of charging facilities even in urban areas, I would think that the cost and inconvenience of an hour smogging a car once every two years at
$45.00, pales in comparison.
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