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shari
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Posts: 13050
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Osprey has touched on a very interesting subject. I agree with him completely...mordida is NOT translated as extortion here in mexico...it IS a way of
life..neither extortion or a tip...it is widely used and generally accepted as a way of doing business...which we are accustomed to "buying into" in
our daily lives for a variety of things and circumstances. I am always happy to creatively come up with alternatives so things go smoother, quicker
etc. When I ran over a curb in front of the police station, I got out of a ticket with a cabrilla.
Picture this...you want to buy a lot and the fellow who measures them has 20 other lots to measure and you are only here for 2 days...a 100 pesos
would get the thing done today...or you could wait for 2-3 months...what would you do????
I have gotten out of very expensive return trips by donating a little cash to a guy's beer fund to get something done when I needed it. I do not see
this as extortion...but kind of a gesture of appreciation to speed up a process or job. It's a relief to know that things are possible with good old
mexican "know how".
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Paulina
Maybe I'll start a new baja journal, "The Mordida Memoirs" in which I list who, what, where and why I supposely needed to pay, as well as my reaction
and the time it took to resolve the situation.
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I like it!!
Or else a website called "Mordida Watch". Much like Seawatch.com.
You get out your video camera and film the entire process. Then you publish it on the web. We could also see what you went through. The Ensenada chief
of police could witness what his officers are putting you through. You could use it to defend yourself in a court of law. Although I'm sure the pad
and pencil will quickly disappear as the camera comes out.
Might be very effective.
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capt. mike
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Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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BS.....$10 each for xerox copies charged as a surcharge to be pocketed but not included and identified up front as part of a fee schedule is purely
slimey behavior and smacks of the "little bite".
yes i know this style of biz is indiginous to the latin way but that doesn't mean it's something you have to accept as a foreigner.
effective negotiations are done BEFORE the deal is supposedly closed. The time to argue about a bill is before the work is done.
paying "in process" is just showing gullibility or stupidity or complacency or nonchalance. I don't care if it's a hot dog, a cab ride or a casita
you're buying.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Heather
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Posts: 370
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: National City, CA
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My Mexican husband is always willing to pay the mordida much quicker than I. I'm like Paulina, I usually want to explain the situation to the police
officer, or argue why we did nothing wrong, but my husband is always willing to pay, and overpay. He's not a bargainer (he'll barter, but not
bargain). If the cop says $400 pesos, hubby will whip it out!! Guess his respect for authority? or just growing up in the system!! saludos Heather
I better get out of here. They gave us half a day off in honor of "Day of the Teacher", so I hear the mall calling my name, have a nice warm weekend
(at least here in SoCal). H.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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I agree fully with Capt. Mike, even if you come to terms before they will try to get more out of you, just think of where you would be with a person
like this if you hadn't made an agreement.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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toneart
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Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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Ref: Immigration in Santa Rosalia-
I would suggest that another reason for possibly complying: They know their "clients" pretty well and remember you on the street, or when you come
back in a year for renewal. How vulnerable do you feel? I mean, we are talking about Immigration Officers who hold and can exercise a lot of power
over your life. I am not saying it is right, but it is definitely condoned in their culture all the way up to the top. It certainly helps subsidize
the government in terms of wages paid.
Regarding Pauline's willingness to experiment with her tone and attitude, I would suggest that she would benefit, as would most, by toning it down. In
my experience, getting upset and raising your voice is almost always counter-productive. You could say that in general, in any culture, but in Mexico
you are really alienating whomever you are dealing with. Talk about stonewalling, they are really masters at it. Yes, it becomes a waiting game which
you can often win if you keep calm and maintain a respectful attitude (even though you don't respect their position). All you have lost is time.
If your principles absolutely won't allow you to comply with the requested "mordida", then spend the time, calmly.....sometimes all day ....and you
will be able to live with yourself.
 
[Edited on 5-16-2008 by toneart]
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DianaT
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Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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Living with mordida is something we learned to live with quite well in Central America. And at times for expedient reasons, like on the open
highway with a federal highway cop on the Baja highway, we have lived with it with no problem.
When it really hit us was after we were told that there would be no more fees at all and then after everything was completed, bingo, the sting.
While yes, mordida is common, we sure have heard a lot of Mexicans complain about it. In fact we have heard more Mexicans complain about it over the
years than we ever heard in Honduras or Guatemala.
Ni modo, it is what it is, but we have now hired an agent for our FM3---we would rather pay him.
Diane
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Osprey
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Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Diane, according to a poll of people in the Mexico City area, the poor people pay a whopping 29% of their annual wages in mordida. Those above the
poverty line pay 8% and gringos living in Mexico pay an amount that is so small it didn't make the numbers cut. I've heard gringos down here say "guy
wanted $100 dollars to process this, copy that. It's not a part of the FM3 fee so I wouldn't pay it. I hired an attorney, only cost me $1,500 dollars
-- I showed them." Like you, I used to try to fight the good fight but now I pay for professional processing (when it's appropriate), save a helluva
lot more than just money and I get to choose who will be the recipient of the money. Working within/through the culture of a foreign country can be
rewarding in many ways -- Mexicans down here just laugh at us and say "You don't know how to use the system" -- "You can make it work for you" Diane,
just wait til those forthright/upright/downright individualists get in a little jackpot!
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Paulina
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3812
Registered: 8-31-2002
Location: BCN
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
I hear the indignation of the righteous. Mordida is part of Mexican culture. Tell me none of you has ever paid to smooth your way over a rough
situation......... (until you need something special or get in a jackpot in Mexico). So why would you not use the system to gain some benefit you
couldn't hope for in another culture? |
Yes, mordida is a part of the culture, but I think we are talking about two different aspects of the mordida problem. Have I ever paid to smooth my
way over a rough situation? Yes.
I've needed "something special" because of a sticky problem in which I helped a "friend" out of a pretty bad situation using the barter system,
greasing a hand so to speak. This friend deserved the consequences of his actions and we made them a little more bareable. Mordida for the most part
is undeserved. I guess you could say we "used the system" to get the desired effect. This action was of our own choice, not forced upon us.
The benefit gained was freedom, not a nice table at a restaurant, or faster service.
Mordida in the sense of the word as I understand it, is not free of my choosing, it's not a tip to make my life easier. It's a situation FORCED on
people by those who hold some sort of power over them.
The police officer has the power to take away your freedom, your vehicle, your drivers license and registration, etc. It's not a choice they are
offering you when they demand mordida when you haven't commited the infraction you're being "charged" for.
Mordida is extortion. It's an abuse of authority.
I don't believe that one can compare that police officer to the maitre d'. Slipping someone a few bucks to get a nicer table or to make my life easier
is not what I consider mordida. To me, it's a tip for services rendered. Yes, I've paid tips by my own choosing.
Side note, I agree that tone of voice is everything. I never raise my voice or thow a hissy fit in these situations. I guess you have to know me to
know what I need to tone down a bit.  
P<*)))><
[Edited on 16-5-2008 by Paulina]
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Diane, according to a poll of people in the Mexico City area, the poor people pay a whopping 29% of their annual wages in mordida. Those above the
poverty line pay 8% and gringos living in Mexico pay an amount that is so small it didn't make the numbers cut. I've heard gringos down here say "guy
wanted $100 dollars to process this, copy that. It's not a part of the FM3 fee so I wouldn't pay it. I hired an attorney, only cost me $1,500 dollars
-- I showed them." Like you, I used to try to fight the good fight but now I pay for professional processing (when it's appropriate), save a helluva
lot more than just money and I get to choose who will be the recipient of the money. Working within/through the culture of a foreign country can be
rewarding in many ways -- Mexicans down here just laugh at us and say "You don't know how to use the system" -- "You can make it work for you" Diane,
just wait til those forthright/upright/downright individualists get in a little jackpot! |
The agent we have used for other things and we will be paying him less than the "bite" and he always earns his money. Besides, we really like this
agent and want his business to succeed, and he does know how to use the system quite well.
And yes, when needed, mordida can work in one's favor.
Once in Guatemala we were having trouble getting our car registered though our agent because there had been a change of government with a NO MORE
MORDIDA policy. As the agent said, she just did not know to whom she could pay the mordida yet. She said it always takes a little time to figure it
out when a change happens.
She figured it out pretty quickly, but the day she called us to tell us she had our new license plates, our truck was stolen. We still have the
license plates as a keepsake.
Several more good mordida stories from Central America, but this is off topic.
But, as you said, the mordia really hurts the poor. Sometime will tell you the story of a gringo working at the Guatemala City Dump with residents of
the dump---he taught them lots of ways to deal with the city and saved them a lot of money, mordida, that it.
As we always say here, it is what it is----not better, not worse, just as it is.
Diane
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Pescador
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Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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This should be very interesting next year on our renewal in Santa Rosalia because we have made it a point to make friends with the Immigration people
there and since we were launching the boat at the ramp right next door when we first came down, we made sure to give them some really nice fresh
yellowtail. I do remember that when we came to pay for our FM3 that she had made a couple of copies and had written a letter for us and she said that
it would be $150 pesos. So I guess we got the "yellowtail discount".
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Russ
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Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Jim, For the people they like they'll have it done the same afternoon. A neighbor moved up to an FM-2 and it was done in a week.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Russ
Jim, For the people they like they'll have it done the same afternoon. A neighbor moved up to an FM-2 and it was done in a week.
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Same experience here. I have had nothing but good experiences with them.
Ralph
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