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Cypress
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Sea turtles have a hard enough time as it is, dodging boat props, gill nets, long lines, trawls, plastic bags, and the assorted crowd that wants to
eat them or their eggs. They need a break.
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Sharksbaja
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Really? Wow! You can't believe everythang you hear........like sharks feeding on hordes of sea turtles.
Estimates of sea turtle mortality from poaching and bycatch in Bahía Magdalena, Baja California Sur, Mexico
Volker Kocha, , , Wallace J. Nicholsb, c, Hoyt Peckhamb, d and Victor de la Tobae
aThe School for Field Studies, Center for Coastal Studies, Puerto San Carlos, Mexico
bPropeninsula, P.O. Box 324, Davenport, CA 95017, USA
cDepartment of Herpetology, California Academy of Sciences, San Francisco, CA, USA
dDepartment of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, University of California at Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz, CA 95060, USA
eGrupo Tortuguero, Domicilio conocido, Puerto Adolfo Lopez Mateos, Baja California Sur, Mexico
Received 18 April 2005; revised 18 September 2005; accepted 28 September 2005. Available online 29 November 2005.
Abstract
Bahia Magdalena on the Pacific coast of Baja California Sur, Mexico, is an important feeding and nursery ground for black turtles Chelonia mydas,
loggerhead turtles Caretta caretta, olive ridley turtles Lepidochelys olivacea, and hawksbill turtles Eretmochelys imbricata. Despite international
and national protection, sea turtles continue to be caught incidentally and hunted for consumption in large numbers. This study examines the mortality
of sea turtles in Bahia Magdalena, focusing on (1) species distribution and number of carcasses found, (2) causes of death, (3) size frequency
distribution and % juveniles in the catch, and (4) changes in average size over the past years. A total of 1945 turtle carcasses were found from April
2000 to July 2003 along beaches and in towns of the region with loggerhead (44.1%) and black turtles (36.9%) being the dominant species. Slaughter for
human consumption was the primary cause of death of carcasses found in towns (95–100%), while carcasses on beaches mostly died of unknown causes
(76–100%). Circumstantial evidence suggests however, that incidental bycatch was the main mortality cause on beaches. Black turtles suffered the
highest consumption mortality overall (91%), followed by olive ridley (84%), hawksbill (83%) and loggerhead turtles (63%). Over 90% of all turtles
found were juveniles or subadults. Carapace length of black turtles declined consistently over the sampling period, while that of loggerhead turtles
increased. Our results strongly suggest that turtles are being taken at high and unsustainable rates; this may partially explain why the populations
have not recovered despite widespread protection on nesting beaches
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ElFaro
I've always heard for the past 40+ years that of the sea turtles that hatch only 1% survive to adulthood. Never seen any hard scientific data to back
that up...ever!! But eco-scientists have continued to repeat that until people believe it!! I think it is alot of garbage. |
Why would you say it's garbage?
By the same token there is no scientific evidence that the survival rate is not 1%. How did you decide which side is garbage?
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Ken Bondy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ElFaro
I've heard that people in some parts of the Hawaiian Isl. don't swim/dive in the water because there are alot of sharks in the water due to so many
sea turtles the sharkes are feeding on. Anyone know if that's true? |
That's really funny! Is the theory that the sharks mistake the people for sea turtles?
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Cypress
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ElFaro, Regarding Hawains being afraid to go in the water due to being afraid of turtle eating sharks. Who the heck told you that? Don't
believe 'em.
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oxxo
Banned
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ElFaro
Who is saying that sea turtles are endangered ? The endangered sea turtle mantra has been around now for 40+ years. I've heard that people in some
parts of the Hawaiian Isl. don't swim/dive in the water because there are alot of sharks in the water due to so many sea turtles the sharkes are
feeding on. Anyone know if that's true?
I've always heard for the past 40+ years that of the sea turtles that hatch only 1% survive to adulthood. Never seen any hard scientific data to back
that up...ever!! But eco-scientists have continued to repeat that until people believe it!! I think it is alot of garbage. |
 That is so ignorant, it bears worth repeating in total! It’s one thing to be
uneducated; it’s another to prove it to the whole world on the Internet!
Yes, it has been estimated that the survival rate is around 1% to adult reproductive maturity. You are correct, not proven to the nth degree and
three decimal points, but estimated to be around 1%. You see, a lot of financial resources have not been committed to Sea Turtle research and there
is still much to learn about their habitat and lifestyle. But, female sea turtles are like salmon in a way, they return to the same beaches to lay
their eggs anywhere from every 1 to 3 years after reproductive maturity. There have been several tagging programs that have suggested that the
survival rate was around 1% supported by an actual count of nesting sites over many years. The number of sea turtles in the 8 species has dwindled to
the point that 7 species have been protected as endangered. They are 7 species that are indigenous to various parts of Baja California. All 7
species are in the endangered category. But it is relatively easy to count the number of sea turtle nests along the Baja beaches for the last several
years and the numbers are way down. The reasons for this are varied and complex, but among the reasons are over harvesting and poaching by local
people, long line and net commercial fishing, depletion of food supply, changes in environmental habitat including siltation and pollution at the
upper end of the SOC and changes in water temperature, increasing encroachment on traditional nesting sites with housing, atv's, horses, dogs,
increase in population and greater use of beach, etc.
However, now for some good news. As the result of programs like the Sea Turtle Hatching Program, we have been getting survival rates of over 10% to
reproductive maturity in some species, which ranges between 3 and 50 years depending on species and location and food supply. In fact, the Olive
Ridley species is making a dramatic comeback in the Baja region. Scientists and volunteers working across cultural lines have cooperated on a
"grassroots" program that is easy, fun, and very effective. Even some of the resort hotels in Los Cabos are promoting Sea Turtle eco-tourism as an
adjunct to Whale watching eco-tourism. Interestingly, Sea Turtle and whale watching season run at opposite times of the year. The Sea Turtle nesting
season starts in June and runs through November here in Baja
I don't know anything about people afraid to go into the water in Hawai'i as a result of increased shark populations. I do know that shark attacks in
Hawai’i are very low compared to other locations in the world. I do know that the sea turtle count in Hawai'i has declined about the same extent as
it has in Mexico.
With regards to the other question about eating sea turtles that are already dead. Well, nothing is wrong with that, except when you see someone
bring them in, how do you know they were already dead when caught? It is like the Mexican fishing license law, everyone on the boat needs to have a
license, otherwise you just point at someone else and say, "I thought he had the license." So anyone with a dead Sea Turtle might be suspect.
I would like to see the sea turtle population increase to the point where they can be taken off the endangered list. Then we could allow people to
harvest Sea Turtles for their consumption with limits on catch, seasons, and resultant management of resources.
So ElFaro, I challenge you to join me in one of the local programs in Los Cabos. I am a novice at this and you, ElFaro, and I can learn a lot
together. You will learn a great deal about Sea Turtles, you will have a very rewarding time knowing that you are doing something proactive about a
very vulnerable creature, and you can bring your children/grand children along and watch them become lifelong advocates of Sea Turtles. To start,
here is a website that is easy to read and understand about Sea Turtles: http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/info-books/sea-turtle/in... If you wish to become even more knowledgeable about Sea Turtles, there are
several sites on the Internet with much more technical information and data.
With everyone's cooperation, we can make this work.
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Sharksbaja
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Good post ox! There is in fact more info available everyday! They can't be all wrong can they?
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Ken Bondy
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I hope this little Olive Ridley made it into the 1%:
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Good post ox! There is in fact more info available everyday! They can't be all wrong can they? |
 :
Oxxo, I did read a couple of articles---and I will find them if necessary for the "fact" police---that there is one place in Hawaii where the turtles
are coming back strong---BUT, it is only because they were put on the endangered species list and REGULATIONS have been enforced for lots of years.
Keep up the good volunteer work---it is worthwhile.
Thanks
BTW, John said he ate turtle soup in southern Mexico about 40 years ago when it was legal---he said it was not very good, in his opinion. The Iguana
was better. 
Diane
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Cypress
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Eating dead turtles in order to keep 'em from going to waste? Glad to hear that
they're not eating 'em alive and kicking. There're a bunch of goats down in
Baja. They're not endangered.
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oxxo
Banned
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
That's really funny! Is the theory that the sharks mistake the people for sea turtles? |
Ken, that's not too far fetched  I was attacked in the water once by a
jellyfish, he must have thought I was a whaleshark. You ought to see me in the water, I won't even tell you how many pounds of weight to get me
under.
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ElFaro
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Registered: 9-16-2007
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OXXO...
Are you and/or your spouse educators or former educators ?
Your response to me seems to indicate so.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3597
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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All together now (all together now) All together now
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Only those of us who live in Colorado and understand the mindset present in "The People's Republic of Boulder" can appreciate the shallowness of your
knowledge and the lack of wisdom exhibited by your comments. |
I find that those who ''slam'' Boulder generally are the one's who can't afford to live there.
I'm judgmental but not out of touch. I defend turtles and MX women. There are as many marooons (MX and Americano) in Baja as there are up
North. I can't get away from them. I spend more time in Baja and California than I do Boulder. I know.
Life is good. No bad days. Oxxo sums it up nicely. Tortugas: Navigators of the Oceans.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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Skeet/Loreto
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A very good Thread on Turtles. Some good Words, some Bad Words!
With your permission I shall respond my 38 years of EXPERIENCE, on the Sea of Cortez concerning Turtles.
1967 Landed and Fueled at Bay of Los angeles at Papa Diaz Place. Was served Turtle Soup. to me Great Taste>
Bizmark 2 La Paz 1972 to 1992 served Turtle on several Occasions.
!967 to 2000 on several Occasions before and after the Laws aganist taking Turtles came into being. We would take one fair size Turtle and have a
Fiesta where the Steaks were cut up for a Soup,theShells placed upright aganist a Fire and charcoaled.
Shells then placed on a Table, Soup poured into the Shells, Tortillas then used with the Charcoaled Fat scraped from the inside of the Shells.
All of this occurred while drinking several 6 Packs of Good old Carte Blanc Beer!!
1998 Things changed forever for me and Turtles!!
I was on a Trip to the Pacific with my 84 year old Mother. As we arrived I noticed several very Large Turtles tied up on the Beech . Their Cries
during the Night were one of the Most Pitiful sounds I have ever experienced.
I vowed never to eat Turtle Again!!!
The Next Day the Mexicano Fisherman brought in 3 Pangas loaded with small size Turtles{50Lbs} where they were slaughtered, placed in the back of a
Pick up truck taken to La Paz and Sold for $50 for each Slab of Meat.
I was their a year later and many of the Shells were still buried in the Sand.
I do not engage in callling any one ignorant if they happen to think Differently. However I do on Occasion use "Weak-Minded; as a person who has
nothing but "Book Learning" and tries to convince other people they he is a Learned Person!
To extend myself I thing Ignorgance is the American or any other Person who uses DOPE!!
Anon The Preacher
"It Don"t make no Nevermind"
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
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Save the Sea Turtles...
  
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
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Save the druggies
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I do not engage in callling any one ignorant if they happen to think Differently. However I do on Occasion use "Weak-Minded; as a person who has
nothing but "Book Learning" and tries to convince other people they he is a Learned Person!
To extend myself I thing Ignorgance is the American or any other Person who uses DOPE!! |
So, thanks for checking in Skeet.
Your position, if I read the above correctly, is that you do NOT resort to name calling if someone thinks ''differently'' than you -- unless they are
druggies.
And, ''book learning'' has no value if the ''learner'' preaches?
Ignorance is found the world over -- maybe a better word might be ''unenlightened."
Personally, I prefer ''stupid,'' or ''ignorant.'' Guess I'm just not politically correct.
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Sharksbaja
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I am confused by Skeets statements. You say you ate turtle after the ban. How very "cultural" of you.
Two questions: 1) Would you have kept eating them if they hadn't screamed?
2) Wth do dopers have to do with turtles?
Are you saying the beer made you do it?
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
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Skeet/Loreto
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Sharks: After the Ban my very good Friend did not take anymore Turtles as he knew his Panga and Motor would be taken by the Federales if he Did so.
However on several other occasions other people took Turtles and prepared them as I outlined. I drank the Carta Blanca but did not partake of the
Turtle..
Answer to Question 1 Yes I would have kept eating them.
Answer to Question 2 In the previous Posts there was reference to people being Ignorant who ate Turtle.
I think the more Ignorante Person is those many People who eat DOPE.
My opinion of Course.
Beer , Wine, Scotch, Tequilla never made me do Anything. I have always made my own Decisions and watched the amount of Drink.
I think anyone who has to have large Amounts of Booze or any Amount of DOPE to live their Life is just as Pitiful as that Turtle Tied up on the Beach.
Skeet/Loreto
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Lee
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Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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For Nomads who want turtle soup
| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
I know there's a well-known restaurant in La Paz that's served my friends turtle soup every time they've asked for it. But it's an under
the table thing, not on the menu. If I know of ONE place, then it's got to be happening at a lot of places. |
Maybe Carol or Wiley will post the names of the restaurants in La Paz that serve turtle "under the table?"
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
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Turtle "Under the table." is probably pork. Could you really tell the
difference? Who would you complain to?
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