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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
[They did the same in the San Felipe area. And rumor has it, they are planing to do it in the near future.. |
Did they come to your door, Lou? Tell us what happened when they came to your door.
I've been down here a lot of years and it's a recurring theme. The rumor will start usually from a newspaper article that feeds the public need for
an assertive immigration response to what is reported to be abuses in the United States. Immigration authorities tell the people that they are on the
job and the Gringo scofflaws are going to answer for their, and everyone elses, sins. That is what the people want to hear and they hear it and
that's the end of it.
This has been my observation only. It isn't policy nor is it a prognostication. Just what I've seen, over and over in the past.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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I wasn't home at the time but they came to my neighbors all of which had Fm3s. Only problem, a friend was painting a neighbors house without FM3 with
work permit and they fined the home owner and my friend and gave him 30 days to get all legal, which he did.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
I wasn't home at the time but they came to my neighbors all of which had Fm3s. Only problem, a friend was painting a neighbors house without FM3 with
work permit and they fined the home owner and my friend and gave him 30 days to get all legal, which he did. |
Sounds to me like the illegal worker was the person of interest at that time. Immigration here, when getting a report that somebody is working
illegally, responds to it every time.
So, to satisfy my curiosity and quell the panic, they weren't doing a door-to-door sweep like the Mexigestapo some are led to believe they are???
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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That time they were door-to-door. And the homeowner got fined for the illegal worker.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Thanks, Lou.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
That time they were door-to-door. And the homeowner got fined for the illegal worker. |
I am interested in what happened to the worker ...
CaboRon
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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As I said above, he was fined and given 30 days to get legal, which he did.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64859
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Lou,
I would like to hear more about obtaining the FM-3 Work Visa... which is required for any foreignor to do any work in Mexico (even volunteer work).
Please consider posting a new thread on the work permit process...
Thanks!
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robrt8
Junior Nomad
Posts: 67
Registered: 12-14-2007
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The fmt states that the holder is not allowed to engage in money-making activity (paraphrasing). No problem there.
The OP asked about renting and, I'm assuming, having a valid fmt. I can't think of a situation where that would be a problem.
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robrt8
Junior Nomad
Posts: 67
Registered: 12-14-2007
Member Is Offline
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Hey, I'm a junior nomad now!!!
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by robrt8
Hey, I'm a junior nomad now!!! |
Now you can post an avitor !
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Lou,
I would like to hear more about obtaining the FM-3 Work Visa... which is required for any foreignor to do any work in Mexico (even volunteer work).
Please consider posting a new thread on the work permit process...
Thanks! |
David
To have a work permit in baja you must be sponsored by the employer, typically the corporation owner who has a legal mexican company with RFC#
(registered number).
You would apply for a FM-3 with all the typical FM-3 things, residence proof, income proof, passport, cobrabantes (utility bills), copies, photos,
plus a letter from the employer (all docs must be in spanish-examples are availabel on line of from the office of imigration), a letter from you
requesting the FM-3, a copy and original or constancia of the RFC certificate from the Hacienda, oroiginal articles of incorporation. If the corp is
foreign owned you must also provide the original and copy of the paid certificate of inversiones de extraneros.
You might need proof of the ability to do the job, for example a degree in teaching english or diving certification. Often this includes a certificate
of Apostile from the secretary of state of the state where the certification or diploma was earned depending if/if not the home country is a signator
of the Hague Agreement (US citizens need apostiles in Mex/Canadians do not).
The documents should be translated in Spanish usually stamped by an official translator. In many cases they will need to know how the income taxes
will be paid and by whom, you or the employer, for example, you would likely have a card from the Hacienda establishing a persona fisica which is a
taxpayer id and you would file with your accountant monthly or at least you should, regardless of zero income or higher.
You could apply for different FM-3s to work for no pay, you could receive pay as exchange, you could work in Mexico for a US corp and be paid in the
USA, you could be the owner of the company and not work. There are many possibilities.
Often it is said that you can not take a job from a Mexican or that you can not own the company and work for yourself but these statements are not
stated on the official Gobierno site though they are often repeated as hyperbole in immigration offices and circles. Laws change often and are
interpreted differently depending on the geographic location.
I have often found myself in a situation where one office would conflict with another and suggest that a huge fine was needed to continue. I always
use the same reply which works every time which goes like this in Spanish: "I am sure that you will do the right thing to correct any conflict as this
is the right course of things, as my family and your have always done the right thing. I have lots of time but very little to no money so I will
wait." Hours pass and days. I return often every day and I bring fruits and sit in the office quietly and when I see the people who claim a fine is
due I say "here I brought you something, its a bag of fruit. I hope that you and the office enjoy it. I enjoy fruits very much." This continues for
days or weeks, but soon the office will become embarrassed by your politeness and soon it will flip on them, and it will be seen that they are asking
for mordida and they are in the wrong, delaying the process unfairly and you are always correct and polite. At some point someone higher up will say
please help the nice person with the fruits (and fruit flies) finally and the documents will be processed to save face with with fine forgiven or some
explanation. I never paid a fine or mordida at least not more than US$5.
In general, you can apply, receive your fm-3 and then you are generally compelled to file taxes monthly and to maintain all the associated documents.
It is no big deal except that if you are not actually working you must prove that as well, you must demonstrate zero income (en ceros) and still file.
Actually, you should be able to maintain the last proof of taxes paid as zero (en ceros) original and copy and no longer file if you do not receive
income. So you would continue to renew your valid FM-3 with permissions for activities with the original and copy of the previous declaration of no
income (en ceros). Though you may be required to go the Hacienda and request a constancia or newer version of the previous proof of taxes paid. For
example in 2009 they may demand proof of taxes paid, you say I am not working, but you would go the hacienda and request the updated copy of
declaration of no income you filed in 2004. I mention this because its quite common to have permission to work and not be receiving income, which is
what you asked.
But, once you do reach this level you can declare all your taxes paid for goods and collect all the facturas (different from nota receipts) correctly
with the correct RFC # and correct names, addresses and once you demonstrate that you paid sales taxes in some amount above the total you owe for
income tax, then some of the sales tax amount can be deducted from the taxes you would owe. I am sure laws vary about how income taxes are paid,
percentage-wise or flat tax etc...
Its not an impossible process and many of us do it without the aid of any assistance, no lawyers, but the stack of papers is so high it would surprise
you and if you loose one, you need to get an original again. As a foreign business owner, there are more documents that may be requested than I
mentioned depending on the area of expertise.
Personally I suggest that anyone considering these steps move slowly, do not feel pressured. You can begin the process and take your time. I do not
suggest lawyers and paper pushers or translators or accountants unless you know them, they have an office, experience, recommendations etc.... Most
are likely to overcharge you or confuse and delay the process. Every step can be achieved by yourself and if you are serious you should do it
yourself.
On your own the entire process can be completed including incorporation of your own company and processing of all paperwork for FM-3 estimated under
us$1000 primarily for government and Notaria processing fees. Attempts to use lawyers and official paper pushers would incur charges in the area of
US$10-20k and delays.
I am giving you my personal experience as I am a incorporated mexican business owner who works for myself, I have no other employees. I do my own
accounting and am my own legal representative (all legal exceptions to the rule). It took me about 60 days to complete the process initially.
Have fun with it, keep good records and go very slowly.
http://www.sre.gob.mx/english/
http://www.inm.gob.mx/EN/index.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostille
[Edited on 9-22-2008 by gnukid]
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Gnu kid it right...it is a huge effort and lots of paperwork to get a work visa...kind of surprising the guy painting the house did that...unless of
course he is a professional painter who works alot here.
We were just at the Hacienda last week to make a few changes and when I specifically asked if we could do our own accounting, we I complained because
a hacienda agent showed up at our door one day several months ago wanting to fine us for not sending in our remittances....turns our our accountant we
are forced to pay monthly didn't pay them...but he was a pal of the hacienda guy and they gave him a few extra days grace to pay it...anyway, we were
told we HAD to have an accountant...no way around it but that this will be changing in the near future and we will be able to send our contributions
via computer...I'm just curious as to how you get around the accountant thing?
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by shari....turns our our accountant we are forced to pay monthly didn't pay them...but he was a pal of the hacienda guy
and they gave him a few extra days grace to pay it...anyway, we were told we HAD to have an accountant...no way around it but that this will be
changing in the near future and we will be able to send our contributions via computer...I'm just curious as to how you get around the accountant
thing? |
Your statements are correct. Lets expand on it. Every person and every company must have an accountant and file monthly or so. So for every RFC there
is a monthly or quarterly filing with a designated accountant. For every persona fisica taxpayer id you must file monthly or quarterly as agreed.
Therefore there are many accountants, some don't do much. Most are paid between US$25-100/monthly.
It is against the rules to represent yourself, be your own boss, meaning you can not take two jobs, or three or four. But all documents can be filed
electronically or in person at the stations at the hacienda. Therefore once you begin the process and demonstrate the issues to be factual and some
consistency, after having used an accountant, you demonstrate honesty and then the accountant demonstrated they are incompetent but you are honest
then the Hacienda can give you the login to complete the filing with the approval of an agent of the hacienda.
I have found that you should ask for Joeseph or Josephina or Jose and that helps. It is a little inside joke at the Hacienda-meaning please, anyone it
doesn't matter who, I need a little help from someone. I have no idea why, but they always say it, ask for Joseph or Josephina. I think either their
names are Josephina or that if they are going to break the rules they use a nickname. I do not know. But they always say Joseph or Josephina will help
you just ask. And they do help and their name isn't Joseph. The people at the hacienda are incredibly nice, advanced, more so than other countries,
they do a good job and want to help you complete the process quickly and painlessly. They are separate from the INM and understand that conflicts are
possible. Bring the phone number and names of your notaria, accountant and INM so that if push comes to shove, then you can say please go ahead and
call the other office and make it the responsibility of the officials to resolve-through your patience and politeness.
Don't forget the bag of fruit and the fruit flies, they will find a way to help you and get rid of you fast.
[Edited on 9-22-2008 by gnukid]
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Shark18
Banned
Posts: 79
Registered: 5-4-2007
Member Is Offline
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Gnukid:
Your two long posts would make a great article for Thora's Baja Lifestyles Magazine. I especially like the part about bringing the fruit and fruit
flies every day for a few weeks until you embarrass the staff into renewing your FM3.
I applaud your tenacity for actually going through that rigmarole every year, but question your sanity for doing it.
Que viva Mexico, tierra de la mediocridad y la hipocresía.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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I would be pleased to help Thora's BajaLifestyles.
In Mexico I am more interested in the interaction each day and the people than the specific actual outcome. I will become a citizen soon and this
period of visa renewals will become a fond memory. Though there is a sense of mastery that comes with success, I'll admit moments of frustration.
If you are in process you are legally in the right (that's what the officials say).
If you proceed very slowly and carefully in the offices and they do not stamp your papers truly its a poor reflection on them not the person in
process.
Besides, its something to do in an air conditioned space between fishing in the morning and sailing in the afternoon. They usually have TV, coffee,
food and bathrooms for people who wait. If you are new to town its probably the only public bathroom in town you can find and its a nice place to
relax. Truly if there is a conflict between the notaria, hacienda and INM thats not something that should cause you to incur a cost or a fine, while
if its truly an error it should be an issue for the officials and Mexico City to fix and changes in laws are not your problem either, anything stamped
yesterday is legal today.
I live basically next door to all the offices so as opposed to a waste of time its something I enjoy to pass them each day and see the staffers at the
grocery, parties and such so part of the process is learning and earning respect and now we are all great friends--though I still complete the process
like anyone.
The fact is no one can really help you solve these issues but yourself. Mexican friends can't help since they have never been in the process of being
a gringo-nor do they understand. That and if you live in La Paz you soon realize that almost everyone works in some government office and they all
play the same mysterious 'chicken before the egg' game, so the sooner you master the riddle the better.
I do feel sorry for those who have been taken for thousands by "lawyers" who claim to be able to help--they rarely do help. They just ask you for the
papers you have and ask you to submit them, that's not helping much.
You need to give people a reason to want to help. If you want to practice for this process, practice some funny quotes or stories, that type of
approach works wonders.
Gather all your stuff and go make folders and 6-10 copies of everything. If you have nothing bring the address and utility receipts (cobrabantes) from
anyone, its actually normal. You are not saying you live there just that you know someone as a reference.
Ok here's a story about how it all began. I had nothing, no place to live, no documents and I wanted to work and begin my life. I kept getting the
run around, I couldn't open a bank account and I couldn't get a work visa and I couldn't understand why-except everywhere I went they were sure I
couldn't. I was so frustrated. I pulled up to the stop sign by the malecon and I put my head on the steering and yelled in frustration. A car pulled
up next to me with some girls who said, "que necesitas?" I knew little spanish but replied, "Quiero una ayudante" the girls shouted back "una amante?"
"Si" They told me to follow them to have coffee and talk. Well I parked and got out, I stood on the sidewalk and the girls arrived. As they approached
I realized that the girls I was speaking to were more than 6 feet tall and in heels-poca alta.
So we chatted for a while, then I explained my plight and I agreed to meet Gabi the next day at the bank at 10:00am. I arrived on time and waited for
15-20 minutes to see my new friend Gabi arrive. She walked in and motioned to me to join her as she greeted every single person in the bank with a
kiss and greetings. She spoke briefly to the manager, "por-fa' ayuda mi amigo" and said goodbye to me and we made plans to meet at the immigration
later.
I proceeded with the bank manager who said that of course it is normal to begin with an incomplete form, that we can put place holers or empty pages
in place of the docs he would wait for and that with the recommendation of Gabi my new friend, I had a reference and official address-and no problem.
Then I went to my appointment at the INM and the same thing proceeded, I waited for 15-20 minutes for my new friend Gabi. She entered and greeted
every single person with a kiss and a greeting and asked them, "por favor ensenyar mi amigo como," to begin the process. No problem they replied, we
will begin with placeholders, there is nothing wrong with beginning with incomplete documents and completing them as you can. And finally the delgado
came to meet me and asked, how do you know Gabi, Miss Baja California?
aha! y ya!
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