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Bwana_John
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Posts: 289
Registered: 10-17-2007
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Salt cedars---all varieties---are ill advised introductions to a native environment, IMHO.
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They aint cedars, and they aint pines.
They do steal the water from natives.
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But then again, I also believe that homo sapien sapien has not always done what is wise and good for "Mother Earth"
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"Mother Earth" dosent care. Mother Earth has had world wide enviorments in the past that would kill humans.
We need to do what is best for "Our Human Enviorment".
Plant diversity is good for "Our Enviorment". Much better than a little shade. That is why you shouldnt introduce anymore Tamerix to Baja.
There are many other native species that will provide shade.
[Edited on 9-24-2008 by Bwana_John]
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bwana_John
"Mother Earth" dosent care. Mother Earth has had world wide enviorments in the past that would kill humans.
We need to do what is best for "Our Human Enviorment".
Plant diversity is good for "Our Enviorment". Much better than a little shade. That is why you shouldnt introduce anymore Tamerix to Baja.
There are many other native species that will provide shade.
[Edited on 9-24-2008 by Bwana_John] |
Good point about Mother Earth---
Thanks
Diane
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bwana_John
| Quote: |
We need to do what is best for "Our Human Enviorment".
Plant diversity is good for "Our Enviorment". Much better than a little shade. That is why you shouldnt introduce anymore Tamerix to Baja.
There are many other native species that will provide shade.
[Edited on 9-24-2008 by Bwana_John] |
I am seriously wondering just what "natural species" that can tolerate the salty environment that the Tamerix can you are referring too?
Barry |
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Santiago
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bwana_John
There are many other native species that will provide shade.
[Edited on 9-24-2008 by Bwana_John] |
OK guys - can we please move from the theoretical to the practical?
1. Please give me names, the kind that will work when I walk into a plant store in Baja, for something I can put in the ground that will work for
shade. Links to websites will be helpful. Pretend I'm really plant-stoopid, you won't be far wrong.
2. Then tell me how I'm to keep the existing water-thieving SOBs from ruining whatever you recomend.
3. Apparently, I can not legally cut them down.
4. I have a clause in my lease agreement that states that I'm to respect and protect the environment with particular respect to the flora. I like
this clause as it speaks volumns regarding the way my landlord views the world. Not your average bear.
5. As an explanation for my plant ignorance: had a biology professor that clearly was a zoologist. He spent the entire semester on animals and on
the last day of class he handed out a page that said the department required him to spend some time teaching botony. The paper simply said that
plants were things that some animals eat when they were hungry and sit on when they wanted to rest. I blame him for coming so late to the plant side
of things.
6. If I posted a story, with pictures, that I caught a 1200 pound blue marlin from shore on 10 pound test I wouldn't get 3 pages of responses. Look
what you started, Fang.
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Paulina
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Good points Santiago.
I guess there's the Mesquite tree...it's a water stealer, not sure if it's "native" or not. We could try that route. Maybe you could start another
thread and see how many pages that will generate.
Oh well, as they say, The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I guess we'll have each other's company.
P<*)))>{
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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wilderone
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Olive, acacia, cashew, palm
not native, but not invasive or detrimenal (?). gleened from a quick internet search - by no means any serious research.
would be fun to do what you're trying to do. you might want to consider a soil test to determine ph; dig a deep hole with proper soil mixture to get
it established; trade something to someone to water it when you're away in the first year to get it established.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
Olive, acacia, cashew, palm
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a lot of other trees out there that are far better than tamarisk: try palo verde, mesquite, desert ironwood, etc.
dk,
i imagine your backyard is full of tamarisk, right?
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dtbushpilot
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Now we can hash and rehash all of the positive and negative aspects of Olive, acacia, cashew, palm, palo verde, mesquite, desert ironwood
etc......think I'll grab some popcorn .....dt
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
Olive, acacia, cashew, palm
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a lot of other trees out there that are far better than tamarisk: try palo verde, mesquite, desert ironwood, etc.
dk,
i imagine your backyard is full of tamarisk, right? |
????????? "palo Verde" as a "shade" tree?? You have GOT to be kidding, right??? (palo blanco are neat, tho)
"desert Ironwood"????? maybe for your grandkids grandkids, and if they are tiny people to boot.
Now I could go for "mesquite", but not a very fast grower, I don't think, and the thorns are really nasty.
I like the other ideas, tho----olives, cashews, acacias, etc. suggested by the other helpful person.
Barry
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Paulina
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Mesquite is ok if you don't plant one next to any underground water supply, pila etc. I wonder how to get one started and how fast it grows?
You'd have to train it into a tree shape then be carefull you don't poke your eye out when crawling under there for shade, and have a pair of pliers
always on hand for when the thorns find their way through the bottoms of your flip flops and into your feet.
Their thorns do make good toothpicks though, and the dead fall makes tasty wood for your bbq. (but don't let anyone see you collect it).
Hey, how'd all that wood get in there!?
Maybe we should make everyone happy and go with the artificial look that was so popular back in the 70s.
http://www.waterlesslandscapes.com/
The traveling cows won't eat it, at least not twice. No hostile take overs on the native plants and the only watering our fake trees would take would
be when we waste good pila water washing the dirt off of them.
Maybe I should order a lawn too. The only lawn in Bahia. A fake lawn might help keep your sand problem at bay, Jim...
Ok, I'm done with this thread now.
P<*)))>{
On edit: I just had the thought that MAYBE I could get fake palm fronds so that my palapa would be forever green and maybe fireproof as well, and no
bugs. Wow, what a concept.
[Edited on 24-9-2008 by Paulina]
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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David K
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Posts: 64859
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
Olive, acacia, cashew, palm
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a lot of other trees out there that are far better than tamarisk: try palo verde, mesquite, desert ironwood, etc.
dk,
i imagine your backyard is full of tamarisk, right? |
If I lived on a beach in Baja, you bet!
I have observed the growing habbits of the 'salt pines'/ 'salt cedars'/ tamarisk trees at Nuevo Mazatlan the entire time since they were planted
(almost 40 years)... There is nothing nicer than the shade they offer... and they all stayed exactly were they were planted... didn't spread out and
the drink the salty water from the ocean... and there is no shortage there!
[Edited on 9-25-2008 by David K]
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larryC
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Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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Paulina
If you want to grow some Mesquite just come over to my place and grab a lump of horse poo (hate that horse) and take it back to your place, you'll get
a mesquite or 2 out of it. Seems the local horses eat the leaves and pods and poop out the seeds. Too bad they don't do that with the salt pines then
we would have shade all over.
Larry
PS DavidK, do the salt pines reproduce or are they sterile?
[Edited on 9-26-2008 by larryC]
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Paulina
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Thanks Larry. I often see that horse cruising the road behind our place and have a feeling that horse is probably to blame for eating the Aloe plant
Doc gave me down to the ground, and for doing this to my cactus:
I'm almost afraid to plant anything else, as it will only become that horse's salad bar.
P<*)))>{
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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bajalou
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Paulina, looks a lot like rabbits at work to me.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by larryC
Paulina
If you want to grow some Mesquite just come over to my place and grab a lump of horse poo (hate that horse) and take it back to your place, you'll get
a mesquite or 2 out of it. Seems the local horses eat the leaves and pods and poop out the seeds. Too bad they don't do that with the salt pines then
we would have shade all over.
Larry
PS DavidK, do the salt pines reproduce or are they sterile?
[Edited on 9-26-2008 by larryC] |
Larry, please ask Mexitron (a plant expert/ landscaper) or Barry A (Desert Park Service) for the natural reproductive details... or just go back and
look at what they posted or links they provided...
In Baja, one removes a cutting from an existing tree and grows it at the new desired location... Where I have watched the salt pines grow, they did
not reproduce by themselves in new locations... ie. they didn't escape cultivation. So, no evidence that they could naturally reproduce from my
observations over 40 years.
Here is from a web site Mexitron linked to:
"Unlike the deciduous Tamarix spp., which have become serious weed
species in the Southwest, Athel tamrisk seldom escapes cultivation
and, therefore, rarely becomes a problem"
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Paulina
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
Paulina, looks a lot like rabbits at work to me. |
No rabbits this time, as the cactus had huge bite marks and lots of horse hoof prints around the backside of our trailers. Although we did see quite a
few Jack Rabbits this past summer, I don't think they were the guilty party.
P<*)))>{
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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