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longhairedbeatnik
Banned
Posts: 32
Registered: 6-3-2009
Location: California
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What?
So let me get this right. If I fly in to visit a friend, he or she can not take me fishing if they have a boat. Or if I meet some nice couple in a
bar and they have a boat, they can not offer to take me fishing. This is insane. Whats next, not being allowed to pick up friends at the airport
because there are taxis available.
As the economy gets worse,I am sure there will be more of this insane attitude by the local business people.
No wonder Mexico can not jump start the tourist industry with this garbage and the land scams.
Sorry for the rant but this is crazy.
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Don Alley
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Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | understand the problems with "gringo charters"...and have seen some of the guys in action in bars...they chat a tourist up...buy a couple
drinks...start talking fishing and the gringos says...hey...no need to pay big bucks on a charter....I'll take ya out if you pay for the gas and beer!
It is also a problem with local mexicans with pangas...but now with the new crackdowns this will be eliminated.
Happens all the time...thus the poor charter boat captains who have paid dearly for their permits, insurance, boats etc....sadly watch as the gringos
set off with yet another potential client of theirs.
I think it's fine for them to take out their family and buddies visiting them...but is NOT OK to take out some guy they met in the bar who would
otherwise use a charter operator. Now how to enforce this or draw the line will be darn difficult...pretty much impossible to prove...maybe you should
have to supply photos of you with your arm around your old fishing buddy or something.
But it really is maddening when one strives to be a legal service provider and the gringos whisk away your clients. |
I'm not surprised that it happens. But "happens all the time?" That it's so widespread that its seriously hurting legitimate local business?
I think it's greatly exaggerated. There aren't that many gringo bars around here and although I don't spend much time in bars, I'm not hearing this
and the boaters I know are not doing this. Your situation in Asuncion may be different.
IMO what IS hurting business is a fishery too heavily dependent on a short season for dorado, while the local reefs are hammered by nets, divers,
spearing and combinations of the above, and where summer migrations of inshore species are so depleted by the time they've run the gauntlet of nets
that there are few reaching Loreto. I think people should be more concerned with the numbers of visiting chartered anglers who pay for airfare, hotel,
restaurant and charter only to find a fishery that produces maybe a single yellowtail per boat average on many days. If even that.
Here we have an opportunity to institute some real management that can bring big improvements in fishing, which could economically benefit the entire
community, and some stakeholders can only demand forced economic protectionism that would probably result in a net loss to them, as well as the local
economy as a whole. And they are wasting their time because as I've posted before these restrictions will not happen. The waste of an opportunity, and
the continued failure to manage their fishery bothers me far more than a hollow threat to force me to hire captains.
You want to do business with tourists? You have to work for their business. You have to compete with others, "legitimate" and otherwise. You have to
allow people their basic freedoms to associate with who they wish, and to make their own choices. You have to convince them that your services are
worth their time and money, and superior to other alternatives, whether those alternatives are a trip with a new bar buddy, a trip with a competing
captain, a weekend in Vegas or Disneyworld, or a weekend at home watching TV. The only restrictions on private boating should be that they may not run
as a business that generates income.
Personally, I'm sold. I want to visit Asuncion and I want to go out with a particular captain there (assuming he isn't wearing his thong thing).  It's just a matter of when I can get around to it. You're doing a great job
of promoting your business and that will carry through the tough times and make you prosper in the good times.
Hey, it's fishing!!! You can't catch them all. Some get away.
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DianaT
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Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
I understand the problems with "gringo charters"...and have seen some of the guys in action in bars...they chat a tourist up...buy a couple
drinks...start talking fishing and the gringos says...hey...no need to pay big bucks on a charter....I'll take ya out if you pay for the gas and beer!
It is also a problem with local mexicans with pangas...but now with the new crackdowns this will be eliminated.
Happens all the time...thus the poor charter boat captains who have paid dearly for their permits, insurance, boats etc....sadly watch as the gringos
set off with yet another potential client of theirs.
I think it's fine for them to take out their family and buddies visiting them...but is NOT OK to take out some guy they met in the bar who would
otherwise use a charter operator. Now how to enforce this or draw the line will be darn difficult...pretty much impossible to prove...maybe you should
have to supply photos of you with your arm around your old fishing buddy or something.
But it really is maddening when one strives to be a legal service provider and the gringos whisk away your clients. |
Is this really happening in Bahia Asuncion? But maybe it might when the bar opens, or maybe it happens elsewhere. Other than the one person who
thinks he is going to be a charter, are there any gringos living town with boats now?
I, however, do think it is a good thing that they are stopping the unlicensed locals from taking tourists out---difficult for some people to accept as
it is an old long time habit.
You and the other fully licensed people in town have paid a lot of money and a lot of time in becoming licensed and deserve the business.
However, as more and more gringos buy property there, more and more of them will have boats and will take friends out---a part of the growing pains of
an area.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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I wasnt referring to Asuncion...although some people do go out with unlicensed pangas which does affect the livliehood of the legal operators. But we
often meet with charter operators in other areas like Loreto, Mulege, BOLA, La Paz where this type of bar chartering...for fuel, beer, food etc. does
happen more than you may think and all legal charter operators are not happy about it.
We realize of course that we have to compete with legitimate business but certainly shouldnt have to compete with illegitimate outfits. It is
incredibly difficult to get all the permits and in these tough times...well...one must protect their investments.
I personally know gringos that troll the hotel bars for "clients" so they can go fish and not have to pay their gas....not in Asuncion...actually the
gringos here have been good at chartering local legal guides when their friends come to visit. I speak here for our amigos who have legit charter
boats in Loreto...it drives em nuts seeing the same guys taking out what are obviously new tourists in town...not their old fishing buddies.
For the record, I am against any restrictions for people who bring their own boats...but they must operate within the regulations, limits etc...but I
would somehow like to impress upon people to please understand the legal charter operators position and urge visitors( who dont have boats) to use
their services...these guys know where the fish are...how to catch em...and could really use the business.
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mtgoat666
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Posts: 18407
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Trex
Implement a racist policy against me and I will trailer my boat elsewhere.
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i think you have confused race with nationality, or confused race with business licensing.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Jorge
| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
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Y tienen razon. |
I disagree.
Very few, if any, of "these people" are running an illegal guide service. I say that as one who's been here and walks by the marina every day that I'm
not one of "these people" myself.
There was a clear consensus at today's meeting that such services are wrong, they are illegal and that if we find the few, if any, that are violating
these laws we would turn them in.
It also became clear who is driving this controversy. A man who thinks he stands to make money by selling more fishing trips. Who also was pushing for
a rule requiring all fishing be conducted only from pangas; seems this season he has perhaps lost the rights to charter out the American owned cruiser
he was running last year.
[Edited on 6-13-2009 by Don Alley]
[Edited on 6-13-2009 by Don Alley] |
there´s so many bloodyt quote boxes I don´t know who the hell i am addressing.
don jorge your take on how and why these suggestions are being made is incorrect. please come to the spanish speaking sportfishing sector meeting
next time and you will see. also the boat story isnt completely accurate either. sorry but if anyone wants me to set the record straight i´ll be
happy to discuss this in person but not in here i would have to write a book.
edited to get my comments out of the quote box!
[Edited on 6-13-2009 by flyfishinPam]
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
I'm curious about the wristband issue. How do you locals deal with this when you have friends come to visit...say you take them fishing for a day...do
you go down to the office and get them a bracelet? Is there a parks person who comes and sells them at the boat ramp?
I am interested because this system has come to Asuncion now too and we just arent sure how it will work. I sure hope there is a meeting here too to
present all the information so it is clear for everyone...I asked the director of the Reserve to come and explain the system to all the service
providers here....we'll see what happens. |
Shari I go into the conanp website and look up the articulo and either print the pdf hoja de ayuda or I pay directly with the correct codes via
Bancomer. Then I take the pago into the office and recieve my bracelets. I usualy buy at least 50 at a time sometimes more, they´re good forever
(they say) and not date validated like the pesca permisos are. I hope that made sense to you speaking in Mexican beaurocrat code.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Russ
I had a very discouraging conversation with a well know local businessman yesterday. He has been passionate about the preservation of the Bahia
Concepcion But has given up on it now has the attitude of "will enjoy it while I can". He's is so frustrated it's hard to be discouraged right along
with him. He says, in short, that the coops in this area are nothing but a money making scam encouraged but the politicals who have personal interest
in ripping off the government and tax payers. They can get gas, motors, pongas, nets and other equipment at almost no cost out of pocket and can
actually make money by selling equipment given to them by the government. Coops are a dime a dozen here. Purchased by individuals boat owners with
made up names. There are, according to him 28 coops in Mulege today. I purposely left his name out. If you'd like to hear his story you can U2U me. If
you are a regular in Mulege you know him. If you get him started be ready for an ear full. He and his wife are pillars in the community.
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Hi there Russ. I am sorry this businessperson has had bad experiences with coops but I assure you and other readers here that his/her stories are not
the same everywhere.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Is there a "nit picking" catagory?
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
thanks Don...that makes sense....we will be purchasing wristbands for our guests.
I wonder how they qualify a local...someone who owns a house, leases land, is here for a few months, has a CFE, electricity account??? It will be a
challenge for Jaime to patrol from Turtle Bay to abreojos. I've been told wristbands will be available at Ernestos fuel dock in Turtle Bay, at Campo
Rene near Abreojos and the Coop in La Bocana.
The passports are a better option for those spending more than a week in any park in the country as it is 260 pesos for a year in any park.
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the passports are good for any conanp national protected area in Mexico
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Russ
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Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Thanks Pam,
I have always been under the impression the the coops where a real asset to their area. So when I was told about this one instance I was really
horrified. I'm sure it is something that needs to be looked at from a point of rampant corruption. To have that many "legal" coops in this small area
just doesn't look right.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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gracias pam...yeah I get it...but supposedly we can buy the bracelets from the Biosphere Reserve worker here...we'll see what happens...this is a
whole new thing for us inour area and we are trying to sort out how it will work.
The unfortunate thing is that there are some really good guides in the area who wont be able to work because it just costs too much money to get all
the permits and is too complicated...I feel bad for them...and some older retired men have been told they can no longer fish for food fish for their
families without the new permits...sad.
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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So let's see....FMTs, fishing licenses, and now a new fee...what does one get in return for these fees? Sounds like another way to discourage tourism
to me.
[Edited on 6-14-2009 by Bajaboy]
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ncampion
Super Nomad
Posts: 1238
Registered: 4-15-2006
Location: Loreto
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Mood: Retired and Loving it
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Leagalized thievery and all in the name of "the environment".
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18407
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
So let's see....FMTs, fishing licenses, and now a new fee...what does one get in return for these fees? Sounds like another way to discourage tourism
to me.
[Edited on 6-14-2009 by Bajaboy] |
the passports don't cost much ($20?) and they come with a shiny gold coin. tre tre cool, tre tre chic.
one always hopes that the fees go to maintaining the special areas.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
So let's see....FMTs, fishing licenses, and now a new few...what does one get in return for these fees? Sounds like another way to discourage tourism
to me. |
The fees for the Preserve are not new----just not enforced in lots of areas in the past.
Lots of people criticize the Preserves for not "preserving" enough, so maybe with the enforcement of the fees, there will be more money available for
good projects. Unlike a lot of tax money that goes to Mexico City, from our understanding, the fees stay local.
New roads, new development, new Baja and not everyone is going to like it.
We hope it will not discourage tourism, just like charging fees for using Yosemite certainly has not discouraged tourism.
[Edited on 6-14-2009 by jdtrotter]
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
So let's see....FMTs, fishing licenses, and now a new few...what does one get in return for these fees? Sounds like another way to discourage tourism
to me. |
The fees for the Preserve are not new----just not enforced in lots of areas in the past.
Lots of people criticize the Preserves for not "preserving" enough, so maybe with the enforcement of the fees, there will be more money available for
good projects. Unlike a lot of tax money that goes to Mexico City, from our understanding, the fees stay local.
New roads, new development, new Baja and not everyone is going to like it.
We hope it will not discourage tourism, just like charging fees for using Yosemite certainly has not discouraged tourism.
[Edited on 6-14-2009 by jdtrotter] |
When I buy a fishing license in California it goes towards protecting the sealife. When I go to Yosemite, I can count on public bathrooms, maintained
trails, campgrounds, etc. This is just another money grab by someone in govt. I'm sure the licensed tour guides are paying licensing fees that
should go towards the preserve.
All I'm saying is add up the fees for a family of four....FMTs about $90...fishing licenses $200 and now another $80. There are better means and
methods to raise money for the preserve if that is what this is really about. I really don't think that is the case.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
So let's see....FMTs, fishing licenses, and now a new few...what does one get in return for these fees? Sounds like another way to discourage tourism
to me. |
The fees for the Preserve are not new----just not enforced in lots of areas in the past.
Lots of people criticize the Preserves for not "preserving" enough, so maybe with the enforcement of the fees, there will be more money available for
good projects. Unlike a lot of tax money that goes to Mexico City, from our understanding, the fees stay local.
New roads, new development, new Baja and not everyone is going to like it.
We hope it will not discourage tourism, just like charging fees for using Yosemite certainly has not discouraged tourism.
[Edited on 6-14-2009 by jdtrotter] |
When I buy a fishing license in California it goes towards protecting the sealife. When I go to Yosemite, I can count on public bathrooms, maintained
trails, campgrounds, etc. This is just another money grab by someone in govt. I'm sure the licensed tour guides are paying licensing fees that
should go towards the preserve.
All I'm saying is add up the fees for a family of four....FMTs about $90...fishing licenses $200 and now another $80. There are better means and
methods to raise money for the preserve if that is what this is really about. I really don't think that is the case. |
Zac,
The fees collected for the Preserve are to be used for projects involving the Preserve----kept local for the benefit of the local Preserve.
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