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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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The practical aspects are, when we discuss the biosphere designation, we say Biosphere proudly.
We should avoid divisive concepts or placing responsibility for new conservation compliance on new arrivals or on the idea of a bracelet for new
arrivals.
We have fishing regulations in place. We simply each need to tale pride in our community and each talk about the issues, accept the regulations, get
involved and avoid getting side-tracked with divisive topics like tourist bracelets and fees upon visitors.
I am interested to hear about success stories.
Perhaps it is worthwhile to look at Seawatch and Plataforma and look for success stories there? or in other regions?
[Edited on 9-26-2009 by gnukid]
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airmech
Nomad
Posts: 184
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Murrieta Ca
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Mood: Expeditionary
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Shari, I just passed thru Bahia de LA and saw the empty Biosphere office. Don't you have a connection there? Brian
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Juan's cousins husband is the jefe there in BOLA...is the office closed or just moved perhaps? seems strange...I'll investigate. Tobi is a great guy,
very fair and caring about his area.
this part of the coast is recognized for the fishing coops actively protecting the resources....and has won awards in conservation efforts for lobster
and abalone, clam etc...protecion.
The biosphere reserve has been active in changing old habits by prohibiting people to land on the islands where fishermen used to collect seagull eggs
(yummy)...also turtle kills are fewer now and the area is much cleaner than it used to be...so we do see some positive work done by the reserve...as
well a protecting the pronghorn antelope which was very near extinction and is now a successful breeding program.
They have programs in place for raising awareness in the villages and are trying to educate the locals about conservation and ecology which has been
positive.
We are very proud of our beautiful area and lucky to still have a healthy fishery. I would welcome a nice Reserve office here that had good
educational programs for the youth.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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I think the goal of preserving the ecological balance is what is important. We each (hopefully) do our individual parts in whatever way we do them.
Some lecture. Some dedicate their lives to the cause. It's all good. If Gnukid wants to lecture and/or be an activist, all the more to the good.
That's his mission and someone has to do it.
Some need to lecture. Some need the lecture. Some don't. For most on this board it is preaching to the choir. A few could give a rat's a**. We all
want to enjoy fishing in these beautiful areas with a minimum of hassle and arbitrary rules.
Preservation- priority #1.
Effective Rules- priority #2.
Local Mexican Nationals in the community policing commercial fishermen- priority#3 (Not the Gringos' job! Not in Mexico...it is resented and will be
counter productive).
Being watchdogs over and being mindful of the bureaucrats and the bureaucrats' short sightedness to the point of self defeat- priority #4. (Shari's
and Pam's job, with our eyes helping).
Compliance for the sake of facilitating your enjoyment and usage- priority #5.
My priorities are not set in stone. Circumstance can rearrange them. You can rearrange them. We all can make a difference. Negative criticism is not
useful.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Preservation- priority #1.
Effective Rules- priority #2
Same rules applied to EVERYONE - priority #3
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DavidT
Nomad
Posts: 494
Registered: 4-9-2005
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
this part of the coast is recognized for the fishing coops actively protecting the resources....and has won awards in conservation efforts for lobster
and abalone, clam etc...protecion.
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Harvesting shellfish by a tourist is illegal. If I buy my fishing liscence, my tourist permit, my boat permit, my bracelet and my Reserve permit can
I at least have a lobster dinner in town?
I do appreciate the tremendous work done by the coops but don't some of their regulations negatively affect the locals?
David
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
The practical aspects are, when we discuss the biosphere designation, we say Biosphere proudly.
We should avoid divisive concepts or placing responsibility for new conservation compliance on new arrivals or on the idea of a bracelet for new
arrivals.
We have fishing regulations in place. We simply each need to tale pride in our community and each talk about the issues, accept the regulations, get
involved and avoid getting side-tracked with divisive topics like tourist bracelets and fees upon visitors.
I am interested to hear about success stories.
Perhaps it is worthwhile to look at Seawatch and Plataforma and look for success stories there? or in other regions?
[Edited on 9-26-2009 by gnukid] |
I agree. The last thing we need is a new platform for PROFEPA to extort
money from tourists.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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David T...boat permit would be a Reserve permit...of course you can have a lobster dinner if you are invited by a fisherman to dinner or order it in
one of the restaurants. But imagine if YOU were allowed to take lobster...everyone and their dog would take them and there would'nt be enough left to
support our village in the commercial fishery. You can be sure people would take them and sell them. It would be impossible to control then which is
why there must be a 0 tolerance.
It's like kayaks in the whale lagoon...many people complain they cant take their kayaks out there....but if you let one...there would be literally
hundreds and it would just get out of hand and not be in the best interest of the whales.
Sometimes it's hard to imagine how just you getting a couple lobster would hurt and that it should be your right to get some...but the problem is it's
not just you...so strict regulations must be adhered to even if it "hurts" tourism....lobster and abalone are what sustain these coastal communities
and must be protected.
Before the biosphere reserve was set up, the whale lagoon was not regulated and whale harrasment was common. People certainly did not like it when
they started charging $3 to get into the area and the price went from #10 a person to $20, then to $40 including the bracelets...but this did not stop
people from coming. Operators were forced to carry insurance and safety gear, have boats inspected, captains licensed etc. which improved the service
immensley.
Skipjack...do you disagree that locals should be exempt from needing a permit? Local tourism vessels need extensive permits but the idea was to cut
some slack to residents like the retired fisherman who rows out to jig some cabrilla...or kevin who paddles out to catch dinner. In my opinion, this
is not sportsfishing...but is substenance fishing which is quite different.
It is my understanding that there is a reason why one entity makes the regulations and another enforces them...something to do with trying to
eliminate corruption....like when the method of payment changed at immigration...before it was so easy just to give the immigration guy your $20 but
this led to corruption and money going into thier own pockets so they were forced to invent a new system where you had to fill out the form then go to
the bank...then go back and get it stamped. Ridiculous but it was the way they dealt with corruption. This is alot more dificult than the old day but
hey....everyone whines about corruption and conservation so we have to put up with the inconvenienca and expense of dealing with it.
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timmurphy
Newbie
Posts: 24
Registered: 2-27-2007
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well...we were planning an 8-dayer to the land of Juan y Shari,however,might have to alter the destination until some things are clarified.(I know
this may never be the case)
will miss BA,but may have to wait till something makes sense and some kind of consistent directions are in place in order to follow the rules.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64798
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Tim... don't let anything spoil your plans... What if you never heard of Baja Nomad and/ or never read this thread... and just showed up there... Juan
and Shari will show you a great time!
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Tim...if you had reservations, please cancel them as we are nearly full up for Oct and some of November...but thanks for the comments, I will send
them on to the Reserve jefes as proof that this will affect tourism.
I imagine it's fine to come down while things are in "revision" as there will be no checking for anything until there is a clear mandate. All the
hoopla has worked to your advantage...I will post the outcome when I hear it.
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timmurphy
Newbie
Posts: 24
Registered: 2-27-2007
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perhaps we will still try...shari,we were planning on camping on the playa and putting in at San Roque.My concerns were who we pay,how ,where..stuff
like that Just didn't want any unpleasant surprises.I am happy that you will pass on our concerns,and thanks for being the fact finder.You deserve a
muy bueno shot of tequila...and more.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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there wont be any surprises for awhile yet...another suggestion I have is to only warn offenders for the first year...kinda like what Pam explained
happened in Loreto...I think she said after the park was announced they gave people a couple years to get their permits up to snuff.
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DavidT
Nomad
Posts: 494
Registered: 4-9-2005
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
David T...boat permit would be a Reserve permit...of course you can have a lobster dinner if you are invited by a fisherman to dinner or order it in
one of the restaurants.
Sometimes it's hard to imagine how just you getting a couple lobster would hurt and that it should be your right to get some...but the problem is it's
not just you...so strict regulations must be adhered to even if it "hurts" tourism....lobster and abalone are what sustain these coastal communities
and must be protected.
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Shari,
I don't have a right to get some and I'm fine with that, but I was remembering about this time last year http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=34920&pag...
the local restaurants were priced out of the market.
I know that the coop could not exist to only support tourism but I hope there would be a way for the coops
to include those, including you, who are trying to build a repeatable, sustainable tourist trade.
David
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
Skipjack...do you disagree that locals should be exempt from needing a permit? Local tourism vessels need extensive permits but the idea was to cut
some slack to residents like the retired fisherman who rows out to jig some cabrilla...or kevin who paddles out to catch dinner. In my opinion, this
is not sportsfishing...but is substenance fishing which is quite different.
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Shari, you keep defending the cost and application of these fees with arguments about the benefits of the biosphere. The two have nothing in common. I
haven't heard of anyone mention that they are unhappy with it's presence. All of those who disagree about the fees fully support the biosphere.
What you haven't convinced many of us is why the people who benefit the most from this biosphere pay almost nothing to support it and the infrequent
visitors are charged on a daily basis and asked to wear bracelets.
I don't really understand your sustenance argument, either. You mean that if I used the fish to supplement my diet in baja I, too, should be exempt
from these permits? We all do that.
No Shari, this is not going to fly. To come to Asuncion and be asked to pay for something that everyone else is getting for free. Give me a break!
That has no future. Imagine the resentment you would feel if you were standing knee deep with other anglers in an alaskan river and know that you were
the only one that paid for the privilege fishing for salmon. That, in fact, is what they're asking from the tourist.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18305
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
Skipjack...do you disagree that locals should be exempt from needing a permit? Local tourism vessels need extensive permits but the idea was to cut
some slack to residents like the retired fisherman who rows out to jig some cabrilla...or kevin who paddles out to catch dinner. In my opinion, this
is not sportsfishing...but is substenance fishing which is quite different.
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Shari, you keep defending the cost and application of these fees with arguments about the benefits of the biosphere. The two have nothing in common. I
haven't heard of anyone mention that they are unhappy with it's presence. All of those who disagree about the fees fully support the biosphere.
What you haven't convinced many of us is why the people who benefit the most from this biosphere pay almost nothing to support it and the infrequent
visitors are charged on a daily basis and asked to wear bracelets.
I don't really understand your sustenance argument, either. You mean that if I used the fish to supplement my diet in baja I, too, should be exempt
from these permits? We all do that.
No Shari, this is not going to fly. To come to Asuncion and be asked to pay for something that everyone else is getting for free. Give me a break!
That has no future. Imagine the resentment you would feel if you were standing knee deep with other anglers in an alaskan river and know that you were
the only one that paid for the privilege fishing for salmon. That, in fact, is what they're asking from the tourist. |
My 5 year old sometimes doesn't understand that life isn't fair. Skippy, us adults need to be a bit more flexible.
If you are visiting the biosphere, get the passport, it's good all year at many nat parks, and really doesn't cost much relative to your income.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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there is a huge difference between an old fisherman who has toiled here all his life rowing his skiff out to the kelp bed for some calico...and the
sportsfisherman who brings his big fancy boat and gear and loads his freezer up with as many (if not more) fish than he is allowed.
I believe it is common in National Parks...like Banff etc. for local residents to be exempt from park fees.
Many locals do not see the Reserve as a benefit to them...they resent the restrictions and obviously makes life more difficult and complicated.
I am not really defending the fees but rather passing on information...in actuality, I do not agree with them either....however, it is not in our best
interest to "fight the system". What I can do is try to affect some positive changes based on public input.
rocking the boat in baja is not recommended however I feel it is my duty as a citizen to participate in a process that hopefully leads to
improvements.
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
Why would I want to drive all the way to Asuncion and be insulted by this Biosphere fee when I can catch fish without paying it at other places?
There are lots of good places in Baja with no Biophere. And no fee. |
If that's the way you feel about $4 then by all means, fish elsewhere !!! |
Thanks for you permission to fish somewhere else Diver. Fortunately I don't need your permission and neither does anyone else.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Appreciate your work and information on this Shari. Sounds like a work in progress and a moving target.
Iflyfish
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