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Diver
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There are 2 different products.
"Color Hardener" gets cast on top as you have seen with stamp release.
It is floated and then troweled into the surface as you complete your finishing. You normally have to apply 2-3 times to get what can be really
interesting colors and blends. The "hardener" will increase the surface concrete strength to 6-7,000 psi in addition to coloring.
If you are stamping, you float 2 full-coverage applications of hardener then your release and then stamp it. Use the release for your accent color.
"Concrete Stain" normally gets added to the batch mix and is a colorant only; no hardener. Integral stain can provide a more "even" color finish but
takes a lot more colorant and does not "harden". Small batches in Baja also make it tough to get even color.
Personally, I chose color hardener almost every time.
(Except for indoor hydronic heat pours.)
Don't worry if the wet finished concrete still shows some gray tone, the color hardener will show up wonderfully when the slab cures and the release
will color any "thin" areas.
.
[Edited on 2-1-2010 by Diver]
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Mexitron
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Wooosh---I noticed you used the copper color outside, although it looks like its under an overhang. I've wanted to use Scofield's copper stain
outside but they say not to---do you remember the brand you used? Years ago I used Scofield's outside but I think they must have changed the
formulation.....
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Pacifico
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This company makes a great product..
http://westcoat.com/#/surfacecoat-concretestain-acidbased-br...
It looks like the link isn't working......just copy and paste the whole thing.
[Edited on 2-2-2010 by Pacifico]
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
Wooosh---I noticed you used the copper color outside, although it looks like its under an overhang. I've wanted to use Scofield's copper stain
outside but they say not to---do you remember the brand you used? Years ago I used Scofield's outside but I think they must have changed the
formulation..... |
I had a gallon of blue in the garage. Not sure why I didn't use it all. Maybe I liked the sample test with the Kemiko Blue stain better. I am fairly
sure the colors I used throught the house were Kemiko: Cola, Blue and Forest Green. They used to have a "sampler" (small bottles) of all the acid
colors. That was helpful in doing color tests.
http://thestainstore.net/concrete/index.php?page=shop.browse...
The brown under the overhang is the same Cola color of the living area. There were exterior blinds protecting it from direct sun and weather. The
blue on the deck was fully exposed to the elements. But why would a permanent acid etch color be a problem outdoors? We did use a UV blocking
plastic coat mixed with xylene for deep penetration into cracks.
Try asking The Stamp Store. These guys are very nice (doug banister) and respond fast to e-mails. They even do one-day training seminars at locations
all over the country. I'd just ask them your outdoor stain question. Let me know how it goes.
www.thestampstore.com
[Edited on 2-2-2010 by Woooosh]
[Edited on 2-2-2010 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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luckyman
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Posts: 60
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Location: near chico, ca
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
There are 2 different products.
"Color Hardener" gets cast on top as you have seen with stamp release.
It is floated and then troweled into the surface as you complete your finishing. You normally have to apply 2-3 times to get what can be really
interesting colors and blends. The "hardener" will increase the surface concrete strength to 6-7,000 psi in addition to coloring.
If you are stamping, you float 2 full-coverage applications of hardener then your release and then stamp it. Use the release for your accent color.
"Concrete Stain" normally gets added to the batch mix and is a colorant only; no hardener. Integral stain can provide a more "even" color finish but
takes a lot more colorant and does not "harden". Small batches in Baja also make it tough to get even color.
Personally, I chose color hardener almost every time.
(Except for indoor hydronic heat pours.)
Don't worry if the wet finished concrete still shows some gray tone, the color hardener will show up wonderfully when the slab cures and the release
will color any "thin" areas.
.
well, today was pour day on the patio; we wound up coloring the mud with powder pigment in a light tan/yellow, then stamping with two colored releases
(med. grey and nutmeg)...we pulled it off without a hitch, then a couple of hours after stamping the last section a BIG thunderstorm came in off the
water...big drops and lightning as well. we saw it coming, and managed to tarp the greenest sections in hopes it wouldn't give us a moonscape texture
job. we'll see. i was planning on washing it down in a day or two, so we'll see how much of the color stays where we wanted it to. ahh, work in
mexico always has its challenges.
thanks for all the input, i'll post pics later if i can download the camera and remember how to upload to this site...isn't it thru photo bucket?
a day off tomorrow while the crew forms up some steps and the next pour sections...we'll try to pour again friday or saturday.
[Edited on 2-1-2010 by Diver] |
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luckyman
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done
thanks for all the great advice on the patio pour. we worked hard on it for a few days...it was really tough staying on task when there were dorado 3
miles offshore, but we stayed on it. naturally by the time we had a break in the work the wind had come up and didn't let up until after we left for
home.
i'll try to attach a couple of pics (if i can remember how)...one more favor: i need to get a couple of buckets of sealer down to the la ribera area
in the next month or so. i can have them at the tecate or tj crossing, or i can meet a rig along I-5 south of redding, ca at a moment's notice. will
gladly kick in for gas.
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv168/luckyman_bucket/baj...
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luckyman
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another try:
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv168/luckyman_bucket/baj...
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luckyman
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Location: near chico, ca
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alright, i give up...how do you get the picture to appear in the text...all i get is the link.
i must be an idiot at this stuff!
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JESSE
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Nice pad wooosh.
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Mexitron
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Thanks for the answer Woosh! Sorry I replied so late, I'll check them out.
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oladulce
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Is there a concrete stain or acid wash that can give me this color?
Hope you don't mind if I join your thread to ask a question Luckyman.
Have you guys with concrete experience ever worked with a product that can give me this sandy-tan color(s)? Our mason will make moulding like this
out of concrete and use a styrofoam piece to shape it. I'd love to use this stone but transportation to my location would be $$$.
In the past he used grey concrete/black sand. Should he use white concrete and or white sand?
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Mexitron
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oladulce--If I was to try to replicate that, and I'm no expert, I would use tan sand with some buff concrete color (powder or liquid) added to the
mix. You'll have to experiment on ratios. Some white cement, maybe 1:1 with regular grey cement might get the hue right although in my little
experience with white cement it tends to lighten up too much. Add some various size rocks or, if you're really daring, some slightly chunky(somewhat
mixed with clods of cement still in it) to see if you can get the blotchy color of the real Canterra stone. Maybe even try real dirt clods as well.
Make sure to vibrate the form once the cement is in it---not too much because a few air bubbles will add interest to the texture, but enough that you
dont't still see raw mix. You can do this by using a mallet and banging on the form a little or perhaps an orbital sander on the form will do the
job. When the molding has cured you can wash away the excess cement and probably get the pitted texture. Once its cured---a week to a month--if you
want some deeper color you can experiment with a walnut or amber etching acid---and you'll probably want to dilute those before you spray them
on---especially the walnut---something like 5:1. you can always add more color this way but you can't ever undo it. There are acrylic stains which
I haven't had any experience with but appear to have a much better color selection. I'm not sure about there longevity in exposed situations though.
Finally, to bring out the color even more you can put on a sealer, though Canterra stone isn't a real shiny material. My best advice is to
experiment--you'll get it right by trying different strategies. Hope that helps.
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wessongroup
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really like with what is happening with the concrete too.. a really very good finish material.. that has been undersold for a long while... thanks for
sharing
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Mexitron
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oladulce--here's a pizza oven I just built in the backyard---the final coat was made with the tan sand, grey portland cement, a little lime, and
powdered color at a rate of about 2 pounds per 90 pound bag of cement. The counter walls are buff, the counter tops are terra cotta, and the oven is
a golden color...we're waiting for it all to cure, then we might put an acid stain on it. The buff color seems closest to your Canterra stone.
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wessongroup
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Mexitron... too cool.. great job
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oladulce
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
---the final coat was made with the tan sand, grey portland cement, a little lime, and powdered color at a rate of about 2 pounds per 90 pound bag of
cement. The counter walls are buff, the counter tops are terra cotta, and the oven is a golden color...we're waiting for it all to cure, then we
might put an acid stain on it. The buff color seems closest to your Canterra stone.
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Mexitron, your BBQ area looks great with your stonework. Your "buff" color looks like a good base to start with and I like the idea of using an
integral product. What brand did you work with?
Brickform that Diver spoke of has some nice natural tan-ish colors and Capt Mike's Cohills looks interesting.
My only acid staining experience was using a Scofield product on these concrete top cap moldings and scuppers. There were no natural browns or tan
color options to choose from and this wasn't quite what I was shooting for, but oh well. It was good practice.
The black sand they use here for most concrete mixes come from a local riverbed, white sand has to be "imported" from La Paz (about 200 miles). I'll
have to get a current price quote to compare.
You mentioned diluting a stain to apply over a base color- an acid stain?? What would you dilute it with?
My only other concrete coloring experience was the floors in our casita. I showed the mason a picture of a tan/buff color floor that I liked and he
came back from the Comex paint store with baggies of black, yellow, and red powders -very basic plain colors. I was skeptical, but we played around
with the powders and he mixed test batches in to white sand and white cement and came up with a nice smooth tan color.
But the day of the floor pour evolved in to the night of the pour when the concrete wasn't drying as they had expected and the resulting color was
quite a bit different than the samples we'd made. The poor mason told my husband he tossed and turned all night worrying that I'd be very
disappointed. Turns out, I loved it and to this day think it's the coolest.
But there's no way we could re-create the effect if we tried it again. Which is what I've learned about coloring concrete, floors especially- results
can be unpredictable for a novice which is a little scary considering the permanency of the medium. If you hated your results, you're looking at them
for a very long time.
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wessongroup
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oladulce ... you GO girl!!
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Mexitron
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oladulce--yah, you understand the unpredictable nature of concrete coloring!
On applying a stain--I was thinking of diluting an acid stain (like Scofield, Kemiko, Brickforn, etc.) with just water, so five parts water to one
part stain...and then apply it with a small spray bottle. And another thing to remember is that you may want to wet the surface before spraying the
stain--it helps meld the color in without seeing a spray pattern.
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luckyman
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no problem oladulce, this concrete coloring/finishing topic is really interesting, and i've been pleased with the variety of discussion.
you mentioned brickform products; that's the brand i used on our patio as a colored release powder to add accent color to the underlying tan colored
concrete. we tinted the concrete, one mixer load at a time, with the powdered colorant available at most places in baja.
because of airline constraints on checked items, i didn't ever attempt to bring a liquid product...but i checked out a newer brickform water based
stain that is applied over cured concrete. it is supposedly more predictable than the acid stains, which they manufacture as well. the local
concrete guy i consulted with on the job likes the new water based stain. as with all colorants, they suggest sealing the surface to 'lock in' the
color against premature fading in the sun.
good luck, there are some really cool concrete jobs posted...makes me want to add on to my patio here this summer.
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