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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65284
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
...
FF: What's damiana?
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from http://damiana.net/ :
Damiana Liqueur is a light herbal-based liqueur from Mexico. It's made with the damiana herb that grows in Baja California, Mexico. It has great
mixability and tastes great as a shooter. The bottle is uniquely shaped and is modeled after an Incan Goddess. The Damiana Margarita is very popular
in the Los Cabos area of Mexico and Mexican margarita folklore says that the very first margarita ever made was made with Damiana Liqueur (not that
silly French liqueur).
[Edited on 10-25-2010 by David K]
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
Thanks guys.
Here's the explanation I got from the shop:
Saltwater got into the axle, then heated up to boiling causing pressure to build, blowing out the seals and coating the shoes and drums with oil. The
drums, for liability reasons, can not be turned and cleaned because the oil has penetrated the metal and the oil will eventually come out and cause
the shoes to become oily. They note on the repair order: "Possible wheelcyl leaking may have damaged master cylinder".
I will take all this info to a real brake shop and see if I can get any more info.
FF: What's damiana?
[Edited on 10-25-2010 by Santiago] |
I think the part about oil into the drums is BS. When a rotor or drum is turned it is to get the brake shoe material off it. I would go to another
shop next time. I think the master cylinder probably just went out. Maybe chevy has a bulletin on it. A master cylinder should last the normal life of
the vehicle or between 100,000 to 200,000 miles. I've only had 1 master cylinder go out on all the vehicles I've ever owned.
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Want to fish!!!
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New shoes, drums, cylinders, hardware, axle seals, fresh gear oil, and a master cylinder, that total does not seem out of line. These parts may be
cheaper at Pep Boys or Kragen, but quality parts and labor cost ya. The low pedal upon leaving condemns the shop to me! They probably over-bled the
system trying to get the pedal back after replacing the cylinders. You must not mash the pedal into the floor when bleeding. The pistons and seals in
the M/C travel into ranges of the bore that they never see under normal use. Contamination and debris, corrosion in those untraveled areas destroy
the seals, fluid leaks out the back, or between the primary and secondary seals, allowing the fluid to go from one side to the other, or an internal
bypass condition. If you have ever been sitting at a signal, and the brake pedal slowly sinks to the floor, a perfect example. I have personally
cleaned hundreds of drums and rotors soaked in gear oil and brake fluid. A thorough bath in the solvent tank, re-machine on the lathe, sand with 120
grit emery cloth, and clean with Brake Clean. Of course there is more profit in selling new ones!For the shop to deliver the car with poor or no
brakes after that much work is unacceptable in my book! Those brakes are your life, and anyone's that is in your way! Oh, the axle vent will release
water vapor as well as oil vapor. I would have liked to see the old gear oil for sure. It sounds to me like you were slightly oversold on the drums,
and the shop caused the master cylinder failure on their own! I have owned a brake and alignment shop for over 20 years and hear these stories from
customers constantly!! 
Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel!
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bajalearner
Senior Nomad
Posts: 670
Registered: 8-24-2010
Location: Tijuana
Member Is Offline
Mood: in search of more
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
Thanks guys.
Here's the explanation I got from the shop:
Saltwater got into the axle, then heated up to boiling causing pressure to build, blowing out the seals and coating the shoes and drums with oil. The
drums, for liability reasons, can not be turned and cleaned because the oil has penetrated the metal and the oil will eventually come out and cause
the shoes to become oily. They note on the repair order: "Possible wheelcyl leaking may have damaged master cylinder".
I will take all this info to a real brake shop and see if I can get any more info.
Wait a minute...
1. You never got the axle in the water. How did sea water get in?
2. Why would the differential oil get that hot? 212 degrees or higher for salt water? It is just gears turning with an oil bath.
3. Why would pressure build? there's a vent on the top of the differential housing?
4. If all this is true, why did the mechanic not say we must inspect the gears and possibly clean everything inside the differential. Seems like
the salt would be a problem there. He didn't take the cover off and inspect the gears?
5. The front pads were gone in a few months...no way Jose. If that could possibly happen, wouldn't the front discs be burned or warped from heat?
You did not say there was metal to metal on the rear shoes. So the rear brakes were still working. If the leaking
6. So a wheel cylinder may have leaked. What damage would that cause a master cylinder?
7. Steel saturated with oil? They have solvents for cleaning oil. Any why then not turn the drums which would remove a layer of metal?
I think think the mechanic's mortgage or alimony or girlfriend needed to be paid when you happened to roll up. This is classic. But you get it from
the dealer's too. It is just wrapped up in fancier packaging before they stick it to you. I do not trust any of them with my cars. If I have to
take my cars in, I get an estimate and leave. I try to do the repairs myself if I can. If not I talk to other people and the problem always dwindles
down the a sensible task. Sorry that does not make you feel better
Now, can we talk about lawyers or the IRS???? |
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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I'm guessing the boat payment was due.
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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Your got riped.
I had the same issues years ago. I complained...and got my money back. Little effort involved doing the process. I got this 4 u from the net:
HOW TO FIGHT BACK
a) If a mechanic does unauthorized repairs, fails to complete repairs when promised, uses unauthorized
parts, or engages in other less-than-ethical behavior, you may not be required to pay for those repairs.
However, the mechanic may practically hold your vehicle hostage until you pay. Therefore, you may wish
to pay for the repairs by credit card and then ask your credit card company or bank to assist you in resolving
the dispute.
b) In these and similar cases, you should also file a complaint with:
Bureau of Automotive Repair
10240 Systems Parkway
Sacramento, CA 95827
(800) 952-5210
c) Other organizations available to assist you with auto repair problems include the following:
Consumers for Auto Reliability and Safety
1500 W. El Camino Ave. Suite 419
Sacramento, CA 95833-1945
(916) 920-5464
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
Automotive Safety Hotline
400 7th Street SW
Washington, DC 20590
San Francisco Regional Office (415) 744-3089
Toll free (800) 424-9393
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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Trueheart
Nomad
Posts: 155
Registered: 1-31-2010
Member Is Offline
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Sanitago:
Lots of good info contained in the responses to your situation. I was particularly drawn to that of bajabass, as he has owned a brake shop for 20
years. I would very much trust what he is telling you. Just too much experience to ignore, and as a nomad, he is shooting straight with you.
Makes me think about doing that trailer tongue thing larryC suggests in the future, and trying to avoid this problem altogether.
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Want to fish!!!
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Thanks Trueheart! Only the straight poop here! If I could allow myself to pull the crap I hear about, I'd have a lot more money. I like being able to
look in the mirror without puking. 
Santiago, if they mislead you in any way, or you did not verbally approve the additional repair amounts, contact the BAR! You should also have been
given a signed estimate before work began, no ups, no extras, without YOUR approval. Many consumers do not know this.
Oh, and by all means, find a new shop! One that will not give you back a truck with no brakes, after a 1k brake job!! 
Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel!
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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i agree...
until i actually lived on the salt...
i NEVER realized what it does to the cars and trucks
salt water is BAD!!!
the price...probably correct for a "correct" repair job
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Want to fish!!!
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Santiago, if you are ever driving thru Orange County, stop by and I will check their work. Brake inspections are free to all! 
Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel!
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fishingmako
Nomad
Posts: 259
Registered: 10-10-2008
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Mood: always up
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Santiago,
Back to my question, Why, why would this shop ask you to come back on a Sunday to bleed the brakes, I am really confused is he open on Sunday's? and
why as dangerous as this was want you to drive home and come back, just makes utterly no sence.
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Want to fish!!!
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I can venture a guess. They don't care! Came in with a "click", but the brakes worked. $1600 later, click, and no brakes! Hey, the shop owner's car
stops, so what is the problem???? Stories like this infuriate me to no end!
Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel!
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Doug/Vamonos
Nomad
Posts: 418
Registered: 6-19-2006
Location: Bahia de los Angeles
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Hi Santiago. That really sucks. But I have one small recommendation and I want to say this in a really nice way and not sound preachy because I want
to keep you as an amigo . Last month I was on the beach playing with my
boat while you were loading yours and I noticed how far back you went down the ramp. Your axles looked like they were in the water and your exhaust
was bubbling out. You go back pretty far when launching and sliding your boat off, too. I would agree with Bob and Susan that there was plenty of
opportunity for salt water to get into your brakes, hub, and possibly into your axle and I agree it doesn't take much to create problems. Do this a
couple times each trip and I would eventually expect brake issues, atleast with the calipers, drums, discs, or bearings. Just take a look at Doc's
Bronco! And if the salt water does get past the seals and into the axle then that would not be good, especially when you are towing a load in Baja
because your diff will get very hot and need good lubrication. I'm always careful not to back up so far that my tires get wet because, sure enough, a
wave will come and splash up higher on the shore and get my exhaust or wheels in the process. And when I get home I always hose off the undercarriage
really good because no matter how hard I try I know salt and sand got all over it. But none of that would impact your master cylinder unless the
mechanic did something during the job to screw it up. And now that you have b-tchin' new brakes I would be careful about backing too far down. I
watched a guy in camp a year or so ago who had a nice truck and he half submerged the dang thing every time he launched or retrieved his boat. I'm not
kidding - that thing was a submarine.
Headed down for the races? I am. Probably arriving Weds and leaving for home on Saturday.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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I have a chevy astro AWD that I launch my boat with for the last 6 years, I always back in far enough to get the hubs and exhaust bubbling and never
wash anything off. Early this year I had the brakes redone they just turned the drums and replaced the shoes I could see no problems and yes I was
worried. Just lucky I guess.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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i used to replace my boat brakes EVERY season
it was horrible
the disk brakes really helped
yup you were "lucky"
edir spelling...again
[Edited on 10-27-2010 by Bob and Susan]
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Can you examine the original master cylinder for worn seals or internal corrosion? If not, can you take it to a knowledgable mechanic and have him
evaluate it? |
did they give you back the parts they "replaced"
did they even show them to you can I take advantage of you next time 
Bob Durrell
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3531
Registered: 8-27-2003
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Bump - see edit on first post for results on 'investigation'
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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I thought Doug/Vamonos suggestions really made sense, even if they're not directly related to your problem this time.
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msteve1014
Senior Nomad
Posts: 947
Registered: 12-2-2006
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Bajabass's explanation of the master cylinder failure is right on in my experience. I am very surprised that none of the other shops would back that
up.
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