| Pages:
1
2 |
gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
It's a tradition in Mexico to claim no responsibility for damage or negative results.
|
|
|
JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
All of the nitpicking over which Rifle is BEST is a bit meaningless since ANY of them are good ENOUGH.
The IMPORTANT difference is the Quality of those who pull the trigger. And, those who do the directing.
Well ................
The days of Emilio Zapata are long gone.
But, if they ever went to war against France or Italy, Who knows ? |
Actually, the quality of the rifle is quite important. A great rifle in the hands of a regular trained man can produce very good results, and a bad
rifle in the hands of the same person, will produce bad results.
|
|
|
flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
It's a tradition in Mexico to claim no responsibility for damage or negative results. |
BINGO!!
and this
[Edited on 4-24-2011 by flyfishinPam]
|
|
|
MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
|
|
Armchair and Kitchen Table Experts
Blah, Blah, Blah (or its equivalent in Espanol).
MOST all of any pontificating over the relative merits of the arms is just a bunch of regurgitating what the "expert" has read from the Internet and
elsewhere.
Assuming that Mex Cook is not a Secret Agent Incognito trained in all modern weapons, for him (as a Mexican) to have any actual experience with the
Many rifles in question would raise questions I'm sure the government would like answers to, but it's more likely that he's just repeating what's
read.
I also have limited experience with actual firing of any late renditions, the one exception being the Civilian AR-15 which I dislike conceptually for
its complicated (hence maintenance intensive) design AND, more importantly, the fact that I shoot Left-Handed and that rifle is the most Anti-Lefty
weapon I've ever fired. My only other practical experiences with (older) weapons (other than my M1911s, Browning Hi-Power and Beretta 92 Handguns)
have been the M-1 Carbine, M-1 Garand, my Chinese and Russian SKSs and two Sten Guns I once owned before getting too paranoid about the Feds or the
State catching up with me. It seemed like every time we went out with them someone would show up in the area and the sound of Auto fire (even the SLOW
rate of the Sten) was distinctive. With Cell phones everywhere today, it would be a lot worse.
Oh, I do have a 1901 8mm Turkish Mauser I bought for a wall-decoration. Although in good shape, I've never bothered to fire it. Besides, it doesn't
really have any pertinence.
That said, my premise that the weapons in use today are close enough in performance that they aren't a significant factor, holds true.
While ALL things being equal (which NEVER occurs in battle), perhaps an edge goes to the superior rifle, but the marksman is a far more important
factor.
Going back to the first "modern" war that the U.S. was involved in, the Spanish American, the Spanish were armed with far superior Mausers (that also
had a more effective round) than the (mostly) Krags on our side, but we out-shot and out-fought them.
The British did well in TWO World Wars with the Lee-Enfield which was inferior to the Mausers used by the other side. For that matter, the Germans in
WWII were successful with the Bolt-Action Mauser up against the M-1, the greatest rifle of the time. The Japanese infantry weapons were Crap from
beginning to end, but they performed well.
In Vietnam, we saw the showdown between the AK-47 (along with a lot of SKSs) and the M-16, but one or the other wasn't a deciding factor. The M-16
performed well after correcting "concept" flaws and training the troops on proper cleaning/maintenance. That said, its complicated nature makes it a
poor choice for a Third-World force.
In ANY battle, TWO things (other than LUCK which is often the X factor) make the difference.
Leadership and Logistics.
|
|
|
choyero
Nomad
Posts: 152
Registered: 4-21-2011
Member Is Offline
|
|
I have a Russian SKS, that just won't quit. I haven't shot it in ages. But I did once shoot 5000 rounds without cleaning it before it jammed, a few
days we blasted off a 1000 rds in an afternoon, back when a 7.62 x39 ammo case was $80/1000rds. It is the Remington 870 of the assault rifle world. I
would have to assume the ak47 would be similar.
From what I have heard the Ar15/M16s have too high of tolerances and evena grain of sand can make them jam, while a SKS/AK47 is way loosey goosey.
Probably could drop a golfball in the action and it would still operate.
[Edited on 4-24-2011 by choyero]
|
|
|
wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
The only winner of the lawsuit will be Reid Collins & Tsai.
|
|
|
Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
|
|
I'm a little bit partial to a 3" magnum pump 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 00 buck. 
|
|
|
MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
|
|
AMEN to That SKS
A GREAT Rifle. Even at today's inflated prices. Back when I bought the Chinese and the Russian they were under a hundred bucks. Now, they're
(Yugoslavian mostly) up in the 400s. I have never gone that many rounds without cleaning, but I've never had a Jam. In the early days, the only ammo
available CHEAP was Corrosive-primed so cleaning after each trip was mandatory. I made the BIG mistake of stocking up on that stuff just before the
Non-Corrosive became available at reasonable prices. Assuming that Anarchy doesn't arrive before I depart, I've got close to a thousand rounds that
I'll NEVER use.
The operating systems on the SKS and the AK-47 are VERY similar. I had thought they came from the same designer before I read differently, but then
the Russians copied everybody, including each other. The AK was adopted and refined because it was Cheaper to make resulting in warehouses full of
SKS rifles all over the Eastern-Bloc that eventually made it here. You can convert the SKS to the detachable AK magazines (if the kits are still
around) AND to select-fire.
Doing either in California is Illegal, but what isn't when it comes to firearms ?
One oddity of the SKS variations is the Bayonet business. Not sure how many people have gone Berserk with Bayonets on their Assault Weapons, but that
whole business of defining dangerous characteristics like pistol-grips, adjustable stocks and Flash-Hiders is strange in itself.
As to the 12-gauge pump, PERFECT for indoor self-defense. I've got a Mossberg and a Winchester. The Mossberg's sitting inside the bedroom closet
loaded with 7 - 00 Buck waiting for THAT night, but they're not much for range.
|
|
|
Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
|
|
MrBillM, Yep, buckshot isn't good for anything but close up, less than 100 yrds. My Winchester model 12 will reach out and touch someone at that
range. OO Buck is about the same as a .32 caliber pistol round. Buckshot?You're gonna get hit by a handfull of 'em. They'll rock your world!
|
|
|
choyero
Nomad
Posts: 152
Registered: 4-21-2011
Member Is Offline
|
|
I paid $175 out the door for my SKS equipped with 2 detachable 30rd clips and a folding stock. I think I bought it back in 1996.
The reason I ran 5000 rds through it just to see how many rounds it would take to make it jam, it never did. I only cleaned it because I was
mothballing it, it is currently sitting in my buddy's safe.
|
|
|
ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
|
|
Stooopid!
|
|
|
MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
|
|
Hit by a Handful ?
A HUNDRED yards ?
While I'm NOT taking issue with the marksmanship of others I haven't shot with, I have to say that hitting the intended (especially moving) at that
distance WOULD be fairly good.
back in my Youth, I LOVED shooting Trap and (after awhile at it) I missed now and then at a much shorter distance having shot a 25 on only very few
occasions. Although I usually shot back then with a 20-Gauge, I tip my hat at obviously better shooting.
But, given the spread at that range, you wouldn't be hitting them with a handful of the (7 - 9 ) Pellets. Admittedly, ONE "might" do it. However,
that would beg the question "Why are you trying to bring someone down at that distance" ?
I've got a friend I've shot with in the past and he's always setting up targets WAY down range and my question is always WHY ? Neither one of us are
hunters. I've never been. I tell him he's going to have a difficult time explaining shooting someone at that range.
BUT, to each their own. IF that night the Mossberg is waiting for ever comes, MY target will be inside 25 feet. DEAD. Or, I will be.
|
|
|
wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
talk about blah, blah blah. I have some pigeons I need to get rid of. Do you think you're up to the task? Might get some use out of your arsenal.
|
|
|
ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
|
|
I am sure glad I do NOT have a fully auto Olympic Arms K3B M4 Tactical Rifle with 8 100 round drum magazines and speed loaders for
quick reloading and 3000 rounds. I would have to be a “gun nut” to have one of those don’t you think? If I did have one, like the gun nuts say, "I'll
give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!
|
|
|
MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
|
|
Pigeon Popping
Don't Hunt. The only Living thing I've shot at were Human.
Well, at least, Sub-Human.
Pigeons once were at the root of one of a few encounters I've had with Law Enforcement regarding guns.
Living in Indio, I had a neighbor who would shoot Pigeons out of the numerous Date Palms in his yard. Although it was Legal, I took
offense at it and voiced my opinion, to which he gave no note.
A short time later, he was out doing his Bwana Hunter and I went out with My1911 and started blowing branches out of MY Date Palms and commenting "You
want to Shoot, I'll Shoot".
OF COURSE, He called the Cops, but nothing came of it other than one of those "Yada, Yada, Yada" Admonitions. Long before Tony Soprano said it, I
learned as a Teen in Watts dealing with the Law, "NEVER Admit Anything".
I don't remember him doing any further pigeon hunts while I lived there.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
