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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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Dave---please listen starting at the 2 minute mark.....I thought it was sublime that the music played was that which was the overture in the aftermath
of the Kasserine Pass catastrophe.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Yah, I remember it from Patton and Police Academy, too!
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Bob H
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5867
Registered: 8-19-2003
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
Pretty funny with the music from "Patton" in the background! |
Also funny that you think it's from Patton. |
Yeah, some of the music is from the Patton movie...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu11QRO9BrQ
The SAME boiling water that softens the potato hardens the egg. It's about what you are made of NOT the circumstance.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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It looked like a lot of those trucks had low profile tires, completely useless for anything but the highway.
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8946
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pole Line Road postponed due to injury
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
It looked like a lot of those trucks had low profile tires, completely useless for anything but the highway. |
That's the new style with trucks and SUVs. Running 20" wheels is the new look.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Mea Culpa
I couldn't get past the first 30 seconds. Still can't. I started it up at the two minute mark. 
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8946
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pole Line Road postponed due to injury
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Just a bunch of newbies that don't know that 10 p.s.i. will allow a vehicle to float on sand. Running low-profile wheels/tires helps them lose a tire
bead, so in that respect, they're smart.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
I couldn't get past the first 30 seconds. Still can't. I started it up at the two minute mark. |
Dave, Dave... the video is over 7 minutes long... full of bumbling fools... and more than one music score. The only thing missing was seeing someone
lose their rig to the waves... There is a clip that shows a rear tire in the high tide wash.
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bacquito
Super Nomad
Posts: 1615
Registered: 3-6-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: jubilado
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob H
David, great video. But at least it looked like everyone was having fun.
Here is a youtube clip that really depicts the airdown advantage that you talk about. Very good stuff here. An outstanding demonstration of not
airing down and then airing down!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTnkxrEnt7A&feature=relat... |
Great information, thanks.
bacquito
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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Ken, don't you run the risk of losing the seal on tubeless tires at 10 psi?
I've never launched my boat from the beach before and I have no experience in driving with a 4x4 on soft sand, but I will be giving it a try in La
Ventana in a couple of weeks next to Kurt and Marina's place where Kurt has told me that there is a place to beach launch near/next to his motel. I
fully expect to get stuck so I will taking a strong nylon rope, a $50 air pump that I got at Harbor Freight that works off of a cigarette lighter, an
air pressure guage with a circular dial on it, four lengths of 8 foot carpet, and a shovel.
I will be letting air out of the tires on the truck and on the boat trailer down to 15 to 20 lbs, I hope that will be sufficient. I have read that
dropping air pressure below 15 lbs is risky with regard to breaking the tire seal on the rim.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Ken, don't you run the risk of losing the seal on tubeless tires at 10 psi?
I've never launched my boat from the beach before and I have no experience in driving with a 4x4 on soft sand, but I will be giving it a try in La
Ventana in a couple of weeks next to Kurt and Marina's place where Kurt has told me that there is a place to beach launch near/next to his motel. I
fully expect to get stuck so I will taking a strong nylon rope, a $50 air pump that I got at Harbor Freight that works off of a cigarette lighter, an
air pressure guage with a circular dial on it, four lengths of 8 foot carpet, and a shovel.
I will be letting air out of the tires on the truck and on the boat trailer down to 15 to 20 lbs, I hope that will be sufficient. I have read that
dropping air pressure below 15 lbs is risky with regard to breaking the tire seal on the rim. |
Not at all... provided you stay in the sand at that low pressure. Also: do not slam on your brakes and do not turn sharply... the last two items
aren't wise in deep sand, anyway.
You can get down to 7-8 psi if really stuck and drive out (once the sand is cleared away from the tires and underparts of your vehicle).
As a general rule, I run 12-15 psi and have no issues all the time on the beach.
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edm1
Senior Nomad
Posts: 568
Registered: 8-23-2006
Location: Oak Hills, Ca
Member Is Offline
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The last 5 psi drop from 15 often makes a lot of difference for
getting unstuck! I've popped the bead at low pressure before but it was because my tire hit a tree stump
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by edm1
The last 5 psi drop from 15 often makes a lot of difference for
getting unstuck! I've popped the bead at low pressure before but it was because my tire hit a tree stump |
Yes... indeed you did... and just HOW did we get the tire back on the bead without compressed air???  
Great times in Baja, that was!
See it here: http://vivabaja.com/msm2010/
Then Art (after mastering the Widowmaker and the Bog to/from Mision Santa Maria) had to test the abilities of driving his off road motorhome on the
bottomless sand beach of Shell Island... just a few weeks later!
Too much air, front and rear lockers were not helping:
Once more air was out of Art's tires, he got 'floatation'!
Piece of cake!!
[Edited on 6-17-2011 by David K]
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8946
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pole Line Road postponed due to injury
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Ken, don't you run the risk of losing the seal on tubeless tires at 10 psi?
I will be letting air out of the tires on the truck and on the boat trailer down to 15 to 20 lbs, I hope that will be sufficient. I have read that
dropping air pressure below 15 lbs is risky with regard to breaking the tire seal on the rim. |
In 12 years, I lost a bead once - in San Felipe while I was driving on the street from Shell Island. The front tire had made a turn, and the tire
bead popped, causing the tire to lose air pressure. Had I aired up my tire before hitting the road, this would not have happened.
20 p.s.i. is too much air pressure for my Jeep to get motivation in the sand - unless if I get a start going downhill in the sand and my Jeep is not
carrying any excess weight.
I have a dual air compressor system mounted in my Jeep made by Viair.
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 669
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
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MitchMan,
There are a few variables as to the minimun air pressure you can run. Among those are: weight of vehicle, size of tire, sidewall stiffness/fexibility,
type of driving (on sand). Suggesting the best psi is complicated.
For a lighter vehicle, 3500-4,000 lb. (Jeep, mini or mid-size truck), with 9.5" to 12.5" wide tires, 10 psi is a good number for sand/beach driving.
Watch the sidewall as you air down. It should bow outward in a smooth, curving bulge. If the sidewall starts to fold or crease, you have let out too
much air for that particular brand/model tire. Some tires might be happy with 8 psi while going slow on sand.
Emergency use only: Dropping the pressure even lower, 5 to 8 psi, while watching for sidewall buckling, will help if the vehicle becomes stuck, but
drive the least distance possible (hopefully only a few yards) before airing up. Ease into the throttle so that the wheels don't spin inside the
tires.
For a full-size truck or large SUV, approx. 5,000 lb., add about 2 or 3 psi to the above numbers.
It's likely that you can go lower than your proposed 15-20 psi on the trailer tires. It depends on the weight of your boat & trailer and the
number of axles. If it's a lightweight boat on a single-axle trailer, under 2,000 lbs., then 10 to12 psi might be a good number for decreased rolling
resistance. The less drag you have behind the tow vehicle, the more capable you rig will be in the sand.
A couple other tips:
Turning the front wheel even slightly creates a huge amount of drag. When starting from a stop, the front wheel must be pointed straight forward. Get
some speed up before attempting to turn.
Plan your route carefully before entering the sand. Better to get out and walk the route first than to spend hours getting unstuck.
When stopping, try to point the vehicle downhill, or at the least, level. Starting out on even a slight incline is a challenge to most vehicles.
Keep some speed up, momentum is your ally.
A disputed topic here: I strongly prefer being in a lower gear, turning 3,000+ rpm where the engine is making power plenty of power and where the
engine will have quick response to wind up for even more power without lugging. Sand robs power as if your engine has half as many cylinders. Don't be
afraid to get into the power as long as there is some forward momentum. Also know when to back off, including immediately when forward motion stops.
Others will disagree and say that low gears will cause tires to dig in and cause a stuck situation. Those folks prefer a higher gear/lower rpm. IMHO,
it's not the high rpm power that causes the tires to dig in, it's operator error: applying too much power at the wrong time or not "feathering" the
throttle and/or clutch when starting from a stop.
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edm1
Senior Nomad
Posts: 568
Registered: 8-23-2006
Location: Oak Hills, Ca
Member Is Offline
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Fun Shell Island pics indeed. And certainly most humbling for the beastly rig. It was INTENTIONALLY NOT aired down to test the limits of fully locked
front and rear axle without airing down, even with momentum in deep sand. It failed. In other words airing down is a requirement in deep sand, lockers
are less of a requirement.
Those pics by the way were when Ken Cooke and David found me digging the beast out, buried to the axle. After we aired down we still had to do a lot
of digging and pouring buckets of water over the sand, and most scaringly I had to drive down even closer to the water to get momentum and then
climbed back the sand dunes, this time with aired down tires, and on low gears with all big block 8 cylinders running at over 4000 rpm.
[Edited on 6-17-2011 by edm1]
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Sand's tuff? You ought to see some of that eastern Oregon clay when it gets wet, fills all the treads and turns new tires into slicks. Or, if only
damp, it cakes up on the tires till they rub against the wheel wells.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Maderita, welcome to Nomad and what an excellent sand driving info post!
It is a funny and yet fun experience to drive on deep, dry sand... specially the coarse sand/ shell mix on Shell Island. Because I have had driven 4
cyl. (1.6 liter) VW buggy to my Subarus to my V-8 (401) Jeep Cherokee to my 3 V-6 Tacomas on those San Felipe beaches, I can say horsepower is not any
help but tire buldge is.
The Subarus (I had 3) all had 13" tires, and at 10 psi they drove as easily as my dune buggy to my Jeep and Tacomas with their bigger engines.
Air pressure is the equilizer in all cases and all tire sizes.
3 ply sidewall (LT) tires will require more air removed than 2 ply (P) tires. Deep tread (mud/ snow) tires will require more air out than all terrain
or highway tires... smooth/ bald tires are the best!
But it is all about the sidewall buldge!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by edm1
Fun Shell Island pics indeed. And certainly most humbling for the beastly rig. It was INTENTIONALLY NOT aired down to test the limits of fully locked
front and rear axle without airing down, even with momentum in deep sand. It failed. In other words airing down is a requirement in deep sand, lockers
are less of a requirement.
Those pics by the way were when Ken Cooke and David found me digging the beast out, buried to the axle. After we aired down we still had to do a lot
of digging and pouring buckets of water over the sand, and most scaringly I had to drive down even closer to the water to get momentum and then
climbed back the sand dunes, this time with aired down tires, and on low gears with all big block 8 cylinders running at over 4000 rpm.
[Edited on 6-17-2011 by edm1] |
After the air was removed and the sand dug out from under it, getting Art to turn his rig downhill, towards the water was quite the effort on our
part... 
I knew once it was on the wet sand, even if in the waves, his speed would increase and he could then drive uphill onto the dry sand and ahead the 2
miles to our camp. As you can see, the tide was going out and there was a few feet of firm, wet sand to head for once the motorhome was unstuck.
I wish I had a movie camera going... Art was trying to save his rig from the ocean's grasp, and here I am telling him to drive it downhill, towards
the ocean!
Great time, in the end... just like at Mision Santa Maria, 5 weeks earlier.
[Edited on 6-17-2011 by David K]
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
Member Is Offline
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Great posts here, I for one, am very appreciative of the great info and to the great Nomads who post here. Thank you.
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