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Skeet/Loreto
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Liqui:
I have fond memories of fishing Ensenada Balnca. Standing in knee deep wter casting and catching 20 Lb Dorado with Tio Don O'Neil;
Those days are gone as there are so many people, Boats etc, in close as well as the Sierra were takin and are slow at coming back.
Again look at the fish just two good fisherman have caught in the past couple of years. Pomp and Bill are good fisherman and know the water. They
agree that fishing is on a decline in some areas but also have knowledge of How to fish and where to find them.
We all need to think about our Grandchildren, Not trying to save all the fish< but teaching them Discil\pline, Morals, Kindness, Caring, Charity
etc.
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chuckie
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I'm almost sorry I started this thread...Once again too many experts...According to locals ,Co-op guys, the seiners are not illegal as long as they
are targeting sardines etc. They apparently may go where they wish as long as the season is open....Ditto for the gill netters...as to the fishing
disappearing, it may not be as good as it once was, but its still damn good....And, in point of fact, what is as good as we remember it, or would like
to?.....We do have lots of yellowtail, some people are catching them, some arent...nothing has changed in that respect....Yesterday we saw some
Marlin, Tuna are being weighed in at 100 lbs plus,here and there.....I wonder how many of the experts commenting were on the water this past
week...AND for some of us it aint he pounds caught that matters...
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norte
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Looks like these guys are doing just fine.... Maybe its the person fishing!
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=59789&pag...
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ligui
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Posts: 837
Registered: 2-9-2008
Location: Fraser co.
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Mood: love Baja !
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Skeet , i think teaching Discil/pline , morals , kindness , caring , charity ,etc . to adults might be a start for saving something for your
grandchildren to enjoy .
Like fishing from the shore of ensenada blanca and catching something like a 20 lb dorado . That would be nice to share with them . No t everyone has
the time ,the skills, and all the gear that pomp and bill have to look for fish . I'm pretty sure they also wish that there was alittle less comm.
fishing done in their front yard .
Norte , sportfishing is alot dif from trawlers , bet you'd not be to happy to see a trawler's net full of dorado .
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Skeet/Loreto
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"Saving something for your Grandchildren to enjoy"" ????
This Phase has been used over and over on this Board. I think it would be better to Teach the Grandchildren to make their own Decesions at the time
they are Adults,which is part of the neglect of the :Blame Generation; as well as the "Cheating of the same Generation always shouting "The Sky is
Falling" just to get someone to send them money!!
Take your Grandchildren on a Bicycle ride through Troloume Meadow up in Yosemite, that will give them something to see
Today"
I have seen Large Fishing Vessels filled with Dorado as well as Two Japanese
Boats sucking up the Fish with a 5 Foot Vacum Pipe.
The main reason we will never see the Cortez Ruined is that it has an Entry and Exit, that the fish and Sharks go in and out as well as the Squid.
I just do not like the Approach many of the Blame Generation make at trying to control the future with Cheating and Lies about the False demise of the
Sea of Cortez.
Skeet
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Pescador
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I have avoided "getting in to the frey" on this topic but some clearing up is probably in order.
First, I totally understand the mindset of La Paz Gringo and Skeet. Because I tend to see the world through a Conservative Lens since I was a
businessman most of my life, I understand the reluctance of people to accept the notion that the Sea of Cortez is a Dead Zone. That makes as much
sense as accepting the shaky notions of Global Warming, and other trends used by the liberal groups as justification for laws or fundraising. Does
not take long to see through a Grean Peace add or a PETA add for donations and understand that they do not mind twisting the truth to justify their
existence.
But I have spent most of my adult life fishing and diving the Sea of Cortez, first in the Guaymas / San Carlos area where my parents had a house and
then the Baja side during my traveling years, and finally the Baja side when I retired. I have spent the last 4 years fishing with a friend who is a
commercial fisherman and giving my catch to him so that he can provide for his family. That has put me on the ocean 5 and 6 days a week for the last
4 or 5 years so I do have some idea as to what is going on in a very specific area of Santa Rosalia. So, my perceptions are not clouded by one big
school of fish showing up for a week or so, but instead are influenced by a longer range perception of what happens when you are out on the sea day
after day, season after season.
Yellowtail, which are my main focus, are much lower in numbers even though there are times of the year when the populations look fairly large. The
biggest detriment that I have seen is what I refer to as "Wrap Netting" which is what happens when they chase baitfish close to the shore in the
spring time. These fish are loading up on protein and are full of eggs in the "pre-spawn" period. In years past these fish could only be netted with
Gill Nets if they were found in Sandy areas but the netters have learned to wrap them at a very high speed even if they are in the rocks, and then put
divers over the side to move the nets over the rocks and move the fish to the center. Where a good fisherman with a line and a hook might catch 1-1/2
ton in a years time, these guys make consistent hauls of 15-20 tons of fish in one or two wrappings. The issue is also compounded by the fact that
they are killing spawners that are not very active biters on the traditional hook and line set. So, while we used to get school after school of
yellowtail all winter in our area, now we might go 2 or three months with no significant schools of yellowtail showing up. This year the last strong
school of fish showed up on December 10, and nothing significant following that until April. When a person is fishing with hook and line they do not
knock out an entire school of fish but selectively harvest a few from each school whereas the nets can knock out an entire school. So the final
picture is, there are still some massive schools of yellowtail showing in the Sea of Cortez, but they are a small portion of what they were even as
far back as 5 years ago. (There is some hope that the ban on this type of netting is helping the area around La Paz which does seem to have a growing
population at this point).
Since the price for basses, groupers, and the like are at least 4 to 5 times as high as Yellowtail, the pressure on all sides has had a serious effect
on the populations. Gold Spotted Bass, Pompano's favorite, are caught very deep and are not pursued as strongly as Baqueta, Grouper, and Cabrilla,
but are showing some decline but the market price for them is the same as Yellowtail so they are pretty much a secondary goal of the market fisherman.
All one has to do is get beyond the range of the average panguero to discover how many Grouper and Cabrilla can be found in a given area that is not
subject to the fishing pressure.
Spotted Bay Bass, Sierra, Corvina, and the inshore species are doing pretty well as they do not get the pressure of the other species. Again, they
bring about half the price of yellowtail, so they get pretty much overlooked by the commercial fishermen.
Squid, which is one of the mainstays of the commercial fisherman in our area have been noticeably absent for the last 3-4 years, but the scientists
who study them are conviced that this is related to the lack of upwelling in our area and the major populations have moved north into the Midriff
Islands area. What has happened in our area with the loss of squid, is that the attention of the fishermen have moved to new areas in order to make a
living. They now harvest clams, octopus, scallops, lobster, and anything else that has a market value. This has certainly had an effect on the areas
where I was able to get a couple of clams for dinner or an octopus, and the scallop beds have turned into a graveyard of white and opened shells.
The original start of this topic was with the seiners who can overwork an area like we experienced in the Guaymas area in the late 70's, but I do not
really see that happening. Mostly this is due to the market forces and as long as the market for sardines and mackerel is so low, there probably
won't be a big upswing in the seiner haul. These are mostly overage boats who are pretty much a dying breed so while they do harvest a lot of fish,
I doubt that they are having much of an overall impact. On the Pacific side where they are netting for the Bluefin Tuna Pens of Ensenada the effect
is much more serious, but on our side I just don't see that much impact.
We are just starting to understand some of the factors of the cycle of life that occurs in the Sea of Cortez and a lot of influence can be attributed
to the El Nino and La Nina effects of water temp and currents. It is unfortunate that there is no actual scientific information being generated, but
there is a market force that is at work. When fishing for one species gets really bad, the fishermen move on to another species. I too see a great
abundance of life but I also see the warning signs of other problems.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Pescador! The Best words about the fish in the Sea of Cortez that I have seen on this Board.
I too, as you know fished for over 30 years in the same area as you. Sometimes commercial fishing with Pappa Murillo, Enrique, Chico, and Alvaro. I
studied the Fish, their movements, the water, the Wind and the Birds. I dove in several places and observed the movement of the fish, Sharks, Whales.
What you spoke of I observed and agree.
If we are to survive as a nation we must some how make a "Control" of what the populations are eating and will eat in the future. Fish, Beef, Grain
etc.
Skeet
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Cypress
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Pescador, Thanks for the insights. And Skeet/Loreto agrees!  Hard for anyone to
argue with such a reasonable assessment of the fisheries.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Cypress:
If you look around you can get some very good information on the Salmon Industry and what happened before and after Control was put in place off of
Washington and Oregon Coast, including the "Giving away of 50% of theh to the Indians.
We still have Salmon
We still have Shrimp.
We do not have much Totouva{San Felipe}
We have Lots of Squid
We have Tons andTons of Tilapia
The Sierra are coming Back after being overtaken on the East Coast of The Sea Of Cortez.
Could it be that the "Sky is falling bunch" have run out of Donated Money???
Skeet/Loreto
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DENNIS
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Wassamatta Skeet....won't anyone talk to you over in OT? Stay over here. It's a better class of people. 
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Skeet/Loreto
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You are so right Dennis.
Just thought I would try one more time to get a Good political Thread Going but looks as if I was mistaken.
skeet/Loreto
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mcfez
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Wassamatta Skeet....won't anyone talk to you over in OT? Stay over here. It's a better class of people. |
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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Cypress
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Skeet/Loreto, The buffalo are making a big comeback also.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Cypress" How right you are!! I am very close to the ones released at the Caprock Canyons. You know that Ted Turner has a lot ot do with helping with
the Buffalo
Also Feral Hogs are running Wild in parts of Texas. They are having to have massive Hunts to get rid of some of them, Have you ever seen what damage
they can do to a Field??Skeet/Loreto.
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Cypress
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Skeet/Loreto, I hunted feral hogs down in those deep south swamps. Caught, killed and sold 'em way back in the 60's. Had my own mark(notches cut in
there ears). Hunted 'em with first-class hog dogs. Learned how to stitch-up some nasty cuts. Now there's a new breed of hogs from wild Russian stock.
Bad critters.
[Edited on 5/1/2012 by Cypress]
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Skeet/Loreto
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You know they have now approved hunting for those dudes with helicopters,
Most everybody has a staning approval to shoot them suckers if sighted.
Why can't someone start produce them for commercial use and sell them to the Chinese for Food??
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