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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
Well, there's one less lawn to water in Irvine---we just installed artificial turf to replace an existing lawn. Happening quite a bit in these parts.
Speaking of which, lest we blame all water woes on L.A., California (Central Valley) is only second to Arkansas in rice production in the U.S. Rice?
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California Central Valley also grows A LOT of cotton which requires lots of water. But none of the water from these watersheds to to the Central
Valley--- all to Los Angeles. I don't think you in Orange county get any of this water. :-)
Just something that might interest you. One of the former owners of our home is a botanist with the Forest Service and we have some very interesting
plants popping up-- native plants from the area. We are afraid to pull anything that might look like a weed until we are sure it is not a beautiful
native flower or plant. I do need to get a good native plant book for identifications. Everyday, we find another new plant or flower.
Since we want more native plants, we discovered
The Bristlecone Chapter of the Native Plant Society
and once a year, they have a plant sale--- all native plants from the area that they have started from seeds or cuttings. They sell them in the fall
so that they can establish good root systems before the summer heat. We are really looking forward to the sell!
Today we went for a short hike in the lower Whites and then popped across the valley and up Baker Creek and there are some monster fields of white
wildflowers --- it is the time, I just need to be able to identify something other than lupine!
Enjoy getting rid of any lawnmower you may have. 
Opps, on edit, it sounds like it was not your yard, but you were the installer? Doesn't matter, one less lawn is a good thing. 
[Edited on 5-14-2013 by DianaT]
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Mexitron
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That would be a very interesting plant sale to go to! A lot of unique species to that high desert/Eastern Sierra ecosystem. The species I'm most
interested in is Dudleya---the native succulents---I know there are some growing at high elevation in the Sierras and over in the Panamints but I
don't know about the backside of the Sierra or the Whites---let me know if you see any!
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JohnMcfrog
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Done Whitney 8 times and still look forward to another experience. Have always liked the climb from Guitar Lake rather than the beaten path from the
east side. Here was a trip my brother invited me on. Love the Sierra's, no matter how or where.
Fast forward for sunrise on the ridge. (14:00)
Juanito
https://vimeo.com/5747807
[Edited on 5-16-2013 by JohnMcfrog]
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
Well, there's one less lawn to water in Irvine---we just installed artificial turf to replace an existing lawn. Happening quite a bit in these parts.
Speaking of which, lest we blame all water woes on L.A., California (Central Valley) is only second to Arkansas in rice production in the U.S. Rice?
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I have to admit that I am baffled by this choice of farming. I first noticed it along hwy 5 driving north to shasta. Fields that have been completely
submerged in water to grow rice. Why in the name of allah would you choose to grow such a crop in a water starved state like California? I must be
missing something. The evaporation rate must be enormous in those fields. How can you make a profit given the price of rice.
As you drive onward you will see these angry signs over the lack of water being provided by the regulators. Their claim is that America's very bread
basket is being ruined by politicians and environmentalists. But when you see how the water was being used it's difficult to be sympathetic to their
complaints.
The only thing I could find to explain all this is that apparently California has a long history of growing rice. Probably back to the 19th century
when Chinese labor was brought to the state. And so, it becomes a traditional farm crop with all of the emotional ties. Sort of like the continued
gillnetting the cortez after every scrap of fish has been harvested.
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DianaT
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Igor,
You made me curious so I just started to look quickly for the history of rice cultivation in California. This is one thing I cam across and it is
obviously slanted in favor of the cultivation of rice.
http://www.menurice.com/uploadedFiles/Recipes_and_Culinary_C...
I am sure there has to be articles that are negative --- think I will look at more later.
I don't know if they still burn the fields, but when we were in that area, the burning of the fields was rather nasty.
Oh, one of the things the rice industry will argue is a positive is that the fields create wetlands for migratory birds --- more to check out.
One thing for sure, there will continue to be water battles in the west!
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Mexitron
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So hydraulic mining in the gold rush era was good for the miners but bad for SF Bay as it filled in 60 percent of it with silt. But the silt also
created the central delta so was good for the rice farmers but bad for the fish since they're sucking all the water out...oh but wait the rice fields
are good for the bird populations but bad for the air pollution...oh my, oh my, silly world.
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Skipjack Joe
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Thanks for the link Diane.
An interesting table of where rice is produced in the world lists these top countries:
China
India
Indonesia
Bangladesh
Vietnam
What's immediately obvious is that these are all countries with Monsoon seasons and heavy rainfall. We, on the other hand, are damning up the Sierras
to provide the water to flood these fields.
They flood the fields to a 'perfect' 6 inches. I'm sure you've driven through the central valley during the growing season. It's in the upper 90's
every day. These are perfect evaporation ponds except that they're continuously being resupplied with water.
Interestingly enough the brochure does not mention water requirements or consumption.
IMO the Central Valley is really an incredible farming area. All done with very little rainfall. But to stay that way I think we need to use
irrigation methods that use water sparingly, just enough for the needs of the plants. Rice farming in California makes no sense. As the price of water
starts to rise they will all be outcompeted by foreign growers eventually, me thinks.
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
So hydraulic mining in the gold rush era was good for the miners but bad for SF Bay as it filled in 60 percent of it with silt. But the silt also
created the central delta so was good for the rice farmers but bad for the fish since they're sucking all the water out...oh but wait the rice fields
are good for the bird populations but bad for the air pollution...oh my, oh my, silly world. |
Oh yes, it is all so easy to follow and all so positive in favor of the rice people.
And to top everything off, the gold rush was at first really bad for the city of San Francisco. The city was almost emptied of population for a
while! They all left with gold fever and got there before it became an international gold rush!
The scars in the gold areas from the hydraulic mining are incredible and really, really ugly --- they just tore many of those mountains apart.
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J.P.
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Rice
When I lived in the Sacramento area I hauled Rice on a weekly basics to the greater Los Angeles Area there are many rice brokers in that area.
California was #2 in the Rice producing of the U.S. although they ship a lot of rice to other countries they import about the same amount there's many
variety's of rice
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Thanks for the link Diane.
An interesting table of where rice is produced in the world lists these top countries:
China
India
Indonesia
Bangladesh
Vietnam
What's immediately obvious is that these are all countries with Monsoon seasons and heavy rainfall.
In CA they flood the fields to a 'perfect' 6 inches. I'm sure you've driven through the central valley during the growing season. It's in the upper
90's every day. These are perfect evaporation ponds except Rice farming in California makes no sense. As the price of water starts to rise they will
all be outcompeted by foreign growers eventually, me thinks. |
Yep, the "Markets" usually get things right, eventually, if left alone with no subsidies or "special help" for targeted enterprises by Govt...
(I took the liberty of editing SkipJack's post in my "quote" above-------please go back to the original post for an accurate original post.)
Barry
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wessongroup
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Water usage and the Owens Valley ..... now there is a topic
And if growers could put ALL "rice and cotton" on "drip" they would ........ along with many other crops .... pumping costs used to be horrific and
that is many moons ago
Small scale growers may be able to make it work, when ya get into sections and sections ..... gets a bit harder
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Thanks for the link Diane.
An interesting table of where rice is produced in the world lists these top countries:
China
India
Indonesia
Bangladesh
Vietnam
What's immediately obvious is that these are all countries with Monsoon seasons and heavy rainfall. We, on the other hand, are damning up the Sierras
to provide the water to flood these fields.
They flood the fields to a 'perfect' 6 inches. I'm sure you've driven through the central valley during the growing season. It's in the upper 90's
every day. These are perfect evaporation ponds except that they're continuously being resupplied with water.
Interestingly enough the brochure does not mention water requirements or consumption.
IMO the Central Valley is really an incredible farming area. All done with very little rainfall. But to stay that way I think we need to use
irrigation methods that use water sparingly, just enough for the needs of the plants. Rice farming in California makes no sense. As the price of water
starts to rise they will all be outcompeted by foreign growers eventually, me thinks. |
You know Igor, it is such a complicated problem for which the answers are never simple. Who knows, if Los Angeles had not taken the water from here,
maybe there would be rice farms here. And there are those who argue that rice production uses less resources that the raising of cattle and while I
eat more vegetarian all the time, I still enjoy a good beef steak.
I think the only possible absolute is that water is king/queen.
Speaking of dams in the Sierras, we drove up to what is left of Lake Sabrina today --- such a sad sight and to think, the LADWP wants even more water
in this year of such a major low snow pack. What is left of the lake is not any where near the dam and the boat launching area is, well you can see.
I apologize for the fuzzy picture, I took it in a hurry as it was raining and my camera was getting wet.
I just don't know, but this guy appears to just being enjoying his life fishing at Intake 2. Who knows what he thinks about the water situation, but
he appears to be enjoying his afternoon.
And for me, there is always something so calming and renewing as a grove of Aspen Trees. Right now there are some that have all their leaves, some
that are just begining and some like these who are just showing their grand beauty.
Aspens just make me temporarily forget a lot of reality, except they and their habitat are so worth preserving!
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bajaguy
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Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Aspen trees speak
Here is another book for the collection:
http://tinyurl.com/crwjxs9
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DianaT
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Registered: 12-17-2004
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You are going to keep me in reading material for quite some time!
Thanks
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Skipjack Joe
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Thanks for the link Diane.
An interesting table of where rice is produced in the world lists these top countries:
China
India
Indonesia
Bangladesh
Vietnam
What's immediately obvious is that these are all countries with Monsoon seasons and heavy rainfall.
In CA they flood the fields to a 'perfect' 6 inches. I'm sure you've driven through the central valley during the growing season. It's in the upper
90's every day. These are perfect evaporation ponds except Rice farming in California makes no sense. As the price of water starts to rise they will
all be outcompeted by foreign growers eventually, me thinks. |
Yep, the "Markets" usually get things right, eventually, if left alone with no subsidies or "special help" for targeted enterprises by Govt...
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What "gets things right" is when the right thing is done at a practical cost. When things should be done but are costly there is usual no agreement to
proceed. Conversely, practical ventures that are destructive, like strip mining, do not move forward despite the perceived gain in wealth.
The "Markets" do not control the affairs of the state. People do.
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Skipjack Joe
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Diane,
A lot of people like to see the aspens in the fall. BTW, are you sure they're aspens and not alders?
One of the greatest experiences in the Sierras is to be in a grove of aspens when there is a mild breeze. This usually occurs in the mornings. If you
lay under them, as I often did, and look skyward them will shimmer from side to side like the scales of a fish. This is usually accompanied by a soft
rustling sound. It's mesmerizing, and, as you say, quite peaceful. Interestingly enough, it's a moment whose magic can't be captured in photography
because it involves movement (unlike ripples on water whose movement can be conveyed).
Anyway, I tried to figure out once why these leaves quake while others don't. Perhaps the shape of the leaf has something to do with it but it seemed
to me it was the narrowness of the leaf vein that connected it to the stem that allowed it to twist back and forth like that. There's also the
question as to what benefit this quaking provides this tree. Who knows. Seed dispersal? Unlikely.
On the other hand, who cares? Just accept the gift and enjoy.
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DianaT
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Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Diane,
A lot of people like to see the aspens in the fall. BTW, are you sure they're aspens and not alders?
One of the greatest experiences in the Sierras is to be in a grove of aspens when there is a mild breeze. This usually occurs in the mornings. If you
lay under them, as I often did, and look skyward them will shimmer from side to side like the scales of a fish. This is usually accompanied by a soft
rustling sound. It's mesmerizing, and, as you say, quite peaceful. Interestingly enough, it's a moment whose magic can't be captured in photography
because it involves movement (unlike ripples on water whose movement can be conveyed).
Anyway, I tried to figure out once why these leaves quake while others don't. Perhaps the shape of the leaf has something to do with it but it seemed
to me it was the narrowness of the leaf vein that connected it to the stem that allowed it to twist back and forth like that. There's also the
question as to what benefit this quaking provides this tree. Who knows. Seed dispersal? Unlikely.
On the other hand, who cares? Just accept the gift and enjoy. |
I have never questioned why the quaking aspens quake as they do, I have just always enjoyed them as you so well describe, the movement, and the
quieting subtle noise. And yes, while the amazing fall colors can be captured, their special movement cannot, or at least I have never seen a photo
that captures that special feeling.
Now, I THINK these are aspens just coming out especially since we were at such a high elevation. However, I certainly have been incorrect in plant
identification before.
[Edited on 5-17-2013 by DianaT]
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Barry A.
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Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Thanks for the link Diane.
An interesting table of where rice is produced in the world lists these top countries:
China
India
Indonesia
Bangladesh
Vietnam
What's immediately obvious is that these are all countries with Monsoon seasons and heavy rainfall.
In CA they flood the fields to a 'perfect' 6 inches. I'm sure you've driven through the central valley during the growing season. It's in the upper
90's every day. These are perfect evaporation ponds except Rice farming in California makes no sense. As the price of water starts to rise they will
all be outcompeted by foreign growers eventually, me thinks. |
Yep, the "Markets" usually get things right, eventually, if left alone with no subsidies or "special help" for targeted enterprises by Govt...
|
What "gets things right" is when the right thing is done at a practical cost. When things should be done but are costly there is usual no agreement to
proceed. Conversely, practical ventures that are destructive, like strip mining, do not move forward despite the perceived gain in wealth.
The "Markets" do not control the affairs of the state. People do. |
Mostly right, SkipJack, and it is actually what I said (or meant, anyway). The "Market" represents "people" and their perceptions and their belief in
what works and what doesn't. Long-term the Market is almost always correct----short-term often not. Distort it with Govt. intrusion and you mostly
get confusion and indecision.
"strip mining" is still used in many places around the world, and is highly efficient in certain applications with little negative environmental
impact---------it's all mostly a tradeoff, normally.
Barry
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wessongroup
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Speaking of CA Rice:
"Rice cultivation began in California during the California Gold Rush, when an estimated 40,000 Chinese laborers immigrated to the state and grew
small amounts of the grain for their own consumption. However, commercial production began only in 1912 in the town of Richvale in Butte County.[55]
By 2006, California produced the second largest rice crop in the United States,[56] after Arkansas, with production concentrated in six counties north
of Sacramento.[57] Unlike the Mississippi Delta region, California's production is dominated by short- and medium-grain japonica varieties, including
cultivars developed for the local climate such as Calrose, which makes up as much as 85% of the state's crop.[58]"
Additionally the growing region in the central has changed quite a bit over the past 150 years ......... used to be a "swamp" pretty much, think "Tule
Fog" ....... was a drainage basin for the Sierra Nevada mountain rage ...... which borders the east side of the valley
http://www.calrice.org/pdf/RICEMAP_08.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tule_fog
that snow pack above Lake Sabrina, is pitiful ... worst I've ever seen
[Edited on 5-17-2013 by wessongroup]
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