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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Retireded
Being pelted with rocks, forcing them to take cover can be dealt with more appropriately by simply moving a few steps farther from said border.
The U.S. government is much too arrogant for my liking. |
Just how far back is an acceptable distance for a punk with a rock to chase one onto one's own property?
Retreat?? Not one freakin' inch. 
It drives me nutz to see people here making excuses for the behavior of these criminals. Doesn't it even occur to all of you that there would be no
incidents if they would just quit attacking the border guards? Quit throwing the rocks?
Or, are these just kids being kids.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18380
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Retireded
Being pelted with rocks, forcing them to take cover can be dealt with more appropriately by simply moving a few steps farther from said border.
The U.S. government is much too arrogant for my liking. |
Just how far back is an acceptable distance for a punk with a rock to chase one onto one's own property?
Retreat?? Not one freakin' inch.
It drives me nutz to see people here making excuses for the behavior of these criminals. Doesn't it even occur to all of you that there would be no
incidents if they would just quit attacking the border guards? Quit throwing the rocks?
Or, are these just kids being kids. |
the border patrol built the wall, they should learn to deal peacefully with the natural human reactions caused by their wall and their presence.
teenagers are teenager, they dont think. the law recognizes this and is lenient toward teens. border patro agents are supposedly adults and trained
to deal with peple. those that shoot/kill rock throwing teens should be charged with murder - if they are irresponsible agents they should be fired
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ELINVESTIG8R
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Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
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MrBillM
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The use of Deadly Force...................
................ In defense IS appropriate in response to those using objects which are considered (properly) as Deadly
Weapons, including ROCKS and other projectiles.
DEATH or serious injury from being hit by a rock isn't uncommon.
There's lots of history on that.
After all, David dealt Death to Goliath with a Rock.
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ELINVESTIG8R
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Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
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OH WAIT, YOU CAN'T ASK HIM BECAUSE HE IS DEAD!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
teenagers are teenager, they dont think. |
If you really think this is the scenario being played out along the line, you aren't paying attention.
How about this one. Is it just a matter of kids being kids?
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/Jul/17/edgar-jimenez-lug...
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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How about a "wham o slingshot" with rocks ... would that make a difference .... just asking 
[Edited on 8-18-2013 by wessongroup]
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Retireded
Being pelted with rocks, forcing them to take cover can be dealt with more appropriately by simply moving a few steps farther from said border.
The U.S. government is much too arrogant for my liking. |
Just how far back is an acceptable distance for a punk with a rock to chase one onto one's own property?
Retreat?? Not one freakin' inch.
It drives me nutz to see people here making excuses for the behavior of these criminals. Doesn't it even occur to all of you that there would be no
incidents if they would just quit attacking the border guards? Quit throwing the rocks?
Or, are these just kids being kids. |
the border patrol built the wall, they should learn to deal peacefully with the natural human reactions caused by their wall and their presence.
teenagers are teenager, they dont think. the law recognizes this and is lenient toward teens. border patro agents are supposedly adults and trained
to deal with peple. those that shoot/kill rock throwing teens should be charged with murder - if they are irresponsible agents they should be fired
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----"trained to deal with people-----" you say??? You're right, Goat, and they are also "trained" to meet leathal force with leathal force less all
present be in jeopardy. There are consequences for the actions we take, including kids. Throwing "rocks" changes everything.
Barry
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Retireded
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Posts: 129
Registered: 10-4-2012
Location: El Sauzal
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Mood: Wishin' I was Fishin', Oh, I am!
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I agree there are and should be consequences for actions, but I also believe that discretion is the better part of valor. I carried a handgun for a
large part life for self protection, and though threatened and even assaulted various times, no one has ever suffered any injury as a result. When
protecting an international border, I think part of the training should include using discretion when taking a life is involved, Especially when the
life in question is on the other side of that border. In that instance, I believe MORE discretion is called for. I, myself, have defended myself
without the use of deadly force although it was available to me at the time. As one who has had NO formal training in such matters, I think if I
could do that then it is not too much to expect of the folks we pay to protect and serve. My experience in handling firearms has included coaching a
police pistol team in marksmanship, but no training as far as when the use of it is appropriate. Somewhere in this process, common sense and
compassion should prevail. When taking a life is absolutely necessary is the ONLY time it should be used in ANY situation. This is my humble opinion
according to my upbringing.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Never bring a rock to a gunfight.
Most people on either side of the border know better than to throw rocks at the police, or people guarding the border.
There are a lot of things that we don't know about this or other similar incidents......we were not there.
I agree there are several types of non-lethal response to an incident such as this, but I don't know (and neither do you) what was available if
anything to the officers at that time.
It is MY opinion that when we ask people to guard our borders, there is no "fallback". The rules of engagement should be such as to defend themselves
and protect the sovereign territory of the United States.
And rocks are deadly weapons, don't think otherwise.
Maybe if you don't think so, go on a ride-along with the BP.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
"........the border patrol built the wall, they should learn to deal peacefully with the natural human reactions caused by their wall and their
presence......" |
Nope, goat, the Border Patrol didn't build the wall, and it's not "THEIR" wall. It's OUR wall...the US Government built it ......and we are the
government. If you don't like it, do something to change that.....but don't throw rocks.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Retireded
I agree there are and should be consequences for actions, but I also believe that discretion is the better part of valor. I carried a handgun for a
large part life for self protection, and though threatened and even assaulted various times, no one has ever suffered any injury as a result. When
protecting an international border, I think part of the training should include using discretion when taking a life is involved, Especially when the
life in question is on the other side of that border. In that instance, I believe MORE discretion is called for. I, myself, have defended myself
without the use of deadly force although it was available to me at the time. As one who has had NO formal training in such matters, I think if I
could do that then it is not too much to expect of the folks we pay to protect and serve. My experience in handling firearms has included coaching a
police pistol team in marksmanship, but no training as far as when the use of it is appropriate. Somewhere in this process, common sense and
compassion should prevail. When taking a life is absolutely necessary is the ONLY time it should be used in ANY situation. This is my humble opinion
according to my upbringing. |
What you do as an individual is totally up to you, as it should be, but there are legal consequences, as G. Zimmerman has lately experienced.
What professional Law Enforcement folks are TRAINED to do is another matter, and the training has evolved over many years and is the accepted way to
do business, to date. As always, individuals, including LE folks, are expected to do, and can do, what they think/believe best, but there are legal
consequences for that, and going against 'training' also has legal consequences---------lots to think about.
Based on everything I have heard about this particular incident, I support the actions of the LE individuals as a past LE Supervisor.
Barry
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Retireded
Nomad
Posts: 129
Registered: 10-4-2012
Location: El Sauzal
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Mood: Wishin' I was Fishin', Oh, I am!
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I agree none of us was there and therefore this is all speculation and opinions. opinions vary, and thus it should and ever shall be.
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aguachico
Senior Nomad
Posts: 602
Registered: 3-23-2007
Location: tijuana
Member Is Offline
Mood: logic cannot get thru to the illogical
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These ratas y halcones litter the border.
I don't understand what some people expect a LEO under attack to do. run? Catch a rock to the head? What is it, you move to Mexico and now the CBP are
the bad guys.
Maybe the CBP agent didn't want to end up on this link...
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/border_security/border_patrol/bor...
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