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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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It is obvious you are a confirmed and dedicated conservationist and I hope you'll spend more time down here where we really need you guys. My wife and
I use twice the water that falls from the sky --- it costs us about $5 bucks a month for 70 CM of water. We don't really feel bad about that because
the farms that grow organic tomatoes (the ones green people adore) are using 650,000 gallons of water per hectare per season. So we can't stop them
and it makes no sense for us to conserve (given the cost/use/consequence).
You have my permission to blow things up to make a statement but don't hurt anybody.
[Edited on 1-6-2014 by Osprey]
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Here's an interesting approach, on the topic of "climate change"
It’s Time to Stop Portraying Climate Change as a ‘Debate’
The science forum on reddit, the self-described “front page of the Internet,” is now a climate change denial-free zone — which means it’s now a
paradise.
OK, that might be overstating things. But the atmosphere of the science subreddit has improved remarkably since the moderators started cracking down.
According to one of the forum’s moderators, nothing — not evolution, not vaccines — drew the kind of vitriol and ill-informed soliloquies as climate
change:
Some issues, however, are particularly contentious. While evolution and vaccines do have their detractors, no topic consistently evokes such rude,
uninformed, and outspoken opinions as climate change.
Instead of the reasoned and civil conversations that arise in most threads, when it came to climate change the comment sections became a battleground.
Rather than making thoughtful arguments based on peer-reviewed science to refute man-made climate change, contrarians immediately resorted to
aggressive behaviors. On one side, deniers accused any of the hard-working scientists whose research supported and furthered our understanding of
man-made climate change of being bought by “Big Green.” On the other side, deniers were frequently insulted and accused of being paid to comment on
reddit by “Big Oil.”
Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/its-time-to-stop-portraying-clim...
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
It’s Time to Stop Portraying Climate Change as a ‘Debate’
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Why stop it? It keeps from anything being done. Goal met.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
It’s Time to Stop Portraying Climate Change as a ‘Debate’
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Why stop it? It keeps from anything being done. Goal met. |
Funny how that works ... in the "House" and/or "Senate" too ... on most topics 
Think something along these lines was used to "quite" things down a bit ... just a while back 
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18058
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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willful stupidity
willful stupidity. yes, they can!
at night i do not believe in the sun because it's not there.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Anthropogenic Global Warming as not been proven. Scientist disagree. So we're gonna let comedians decide the issue? Wonder what they think about net
boats, etc.?
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weebray
Super Nomad
Posts: 1094
Registered: 7-19-2010
Location: La Paz
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Mood: lleno
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
I can say without equivocation that there a not near as many "bait balls" up and down the SOC now, as I have seen in years past.
The Conception bay area used to be rife will bait balls, now whenever I pass by, hardly any are seen.
Same thing in my local fishing area Loreto.....there were always balls of bait....all over. Inshore, offshore......in-between shores.
Now in the last couple of years, even the sardines are absent from the harbor area, when before, with one to two tosses of a net, a tank full could be
had.
Now it's scratch for a few wayward ones, a jurelito now and again and old Tecate bottles. |
I mentioned this on the morning net here in La Paz. The editor of "Baja Insider" admonished me saying that over the last couple of years there has
been a huge increase in "bait balls" here in the La Paz area. He demanded proof of a decline.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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If one wishes to actually "see" and "read" the science on this topic and many others ... both pro and con ... removed from "political fog" which
surrounds this issue and many others
http://www.pnas.org
"Scientist disagree" ... That is normal in science, however, it doesn't change "findings", rather the "conclusions" reached
When Science becomes "political" .... something is lost in the discussion .. in most cases IMHO
This issue is about one thing ... the sustainability of the human species in their environment, at our current "life style" based on utilization of
natural resources and the resulting "waste stream" from same and those impacts on the environment which affords us a way to "make a living"
We as a species do "impact" our environmental "niche" ... as do all animal species ... we just tend to have greater impact, in most cases
Check China for some really good examples ... along with a few other countries which do not have environmental regulations ... and what results
A very hard balance, maintaining our environment to insure sustainability of the human species .... and making a "profit" .. when "profits" have NO
caps ...
I'll stick with science to solve our problems ... not "profits"
[Edited on 1-7-2014 by wessongroup]
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
Anthropogenic Global Warming as not been proven. Scientist disagree. So we're gonna let comedians decide the issue? Wonder what they think about net
boats, etc.? |
Well, it couldn't be any worse than letting politicians and radio/TV pundits decide.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Or .......
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
As to drought ... and the distribution of Colorado River water
"Feds Slash Colorado River Release to Historic Lows"
From a National Geo piece ... it's interactive ... 1999 > 2013
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/08/130816-color...
PUBLISHED AUGUST 16, 2013
"It's as if a giant sucked up an astonishing amount of water with a straw. Some 8.23 million acre-feet of water is supposed to flow each year into
Lake Mead from Lake Powell to serve Nevada, Arizona, California, and Mexico, per long-standing interstate and international
agreements. But the past 14 years have been tough."
[Edited on 1-8-2014 by wessongroup] |
Gee, wonder if a change in salinity would have any impact on the Gulf of California
[Edited on 1-8-2014 by wessongroup]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18058
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Costs us about $5 bucks a month for 70 CM of water. We don't really feel bad about that because the farms that grow organic tomatoes (the ones green
people adore) are using 650,000 gallons of water per hectare per season. So we can't stop them and it makes no sense for us to conserve (given the
cost/use/consequence). |
If everybody thought that way we would all be flocked.
Think global, act local.
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
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Mood: groovy
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Being an organic hobby farmer, I am scratching my head as to how or where you come up with growing organic food uses so much more water, quite the
contrary Osprey! Organic farming has proven to use less energy and water, due to sustainable farming methods, crop rotation, and composting which
improves the soil which in turn retains more moisture in the soil.
Countries with problems of drought who have switched to organic farming have not only better crop yield but use less water.
Are you saying that crop rotation and composting, which are the core of organic farming practices, cause farmers to use MORE water? Care to explain
your position on this?
I know plenty of non-greenies who adore and eat organic, just for the health of it! You don't have to be a greenie, tree-hugger, or a conservationist
to know that growing naturally WITH nature instead of against it and eating organic just makes sense! And dang it all anyways....those organic grown
tomatoes sure taste like tomatoes should taste, imagine that! OH the horror!!!
Mtgoat666, sheesh it's always the few who do for the many, eh!
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Luna, it's a very common thing on this board when some readers/members read more into the words than were intended. Bob says "I hate Popsicles"
sometimes translates into "Nobody should eat popsicles", Popsicles are bad for you, you're a dummy if you have eaten one, you're stupid to even think
about it...ya da, ya da....."
Clearly I should have made my point about water use and local farming and left out the word organic. The point was and is, we get 7 inches of water a
year in this southern state and we are using more and more each second --- the aquifers can never recharge -- a huge sealed pool under Ciudad
Constitucion can NEVER be recharged and at times the farmers use the water at the rate of a century per month. You advise me to save a few cups
anyway, when and where I can and I see that as futile.
I don't want to do what you do. I hope you can continue and do more and feel great about it. We need all the conservationists we can get and the more
active the better.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Luna, I'm not kiddin'
We are really, really using more water than we have on hand.
[Edited on 1-8-2014 by Osprey]
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
Member Is Offline
Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
Anthropogenic Global Warming as not been proven. Scientist disagree. So we're gonna let comedians decide the issue? Wonder what they think about net
boats, etc.? |
Sorry Cypress but you are laboring under a false assumption. Overwhelmingly, scientist do not disagree.
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watizname
Senior Nomad
Posts: 772
Registered: 8-7-2009
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When the smog from China starts blowing across the Pacific, it won't make any difference at all what conservation methods WE have adopted. 
I yam what I yam and that\'s all what I yam.
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weebray
Super Nomad
Posts: 1094
Registered: 7-19-2010
Location: La Paz
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Mood: lleno
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Many road trips ago we came across a RIVER in San Juan de la Costa. I didn't think much about it (shame on me) until last year. On another "poking
around" road trip near Bonfil we came upon a huge well site with numerous huge electric water pumps running full tilt boogie - then another - then
another. Finally, our curiosity peaked, we wandered in and inquired. Turns out this is the source of the river in San Juan de la Costa. When we got
home we eventually had some questions which we still have not answers to. To whit: What impact does this fertilizer production mine have on a very
precious water table/resource? How much does the mine pay for this precious resource? Does the mine pay the normal commercial rate for electricity?
Is the mine doing anything to minimize the use of water? Is this turning of water into fertilizer for profit doing anything positive for the citizens
of BCS? Basically WTF is going on here?
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by watizname
When the smog from China starts blowing across the Pacific, it won't make any difference at all what conservation methods WE have adopted.
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payback for the smog WE sent them in the 50's?
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