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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
Member Is Offline
Mood: Weary
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Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees....Emiliano Zapata?
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Being Watched ................
OFTEN makes for better Behavior.
Personally speaking.
Since Red-Light signals have become more and more common locally, I approach them carefully, make sure that I don't cross the line when
stopping AND prudently stop completely before a Right-Turn.
AND, where I KNOW CCTV is in use at stores or elsewhere, I make it a point to act accordingly.
We should WELCOME enhanced surveillance as an opportunity to improve.
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maspacifico
Nomad
Posts: 317
Registered: 4-22-2008
Member Is Offline
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Bill likes to be watched.. jejeje
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
Member Is Offline
Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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MISS bILL
Are you a GOV troll or what ??? this checking/watching folks every movements and actions is why folks that used to be free are no longer free but
think that the USA is the Greatest.......used to to be but no longer is the case...A Sad state of Affairs....God Bless The USA...she needs all the
help she can get,,,Today...Ohh...And by the way....Three modern skyskypapers biuldings come down on 9/11 with two jets....Just watching that boob
tube will keep you informed and you will know Nothing about the real world !!! F-Off Mr bill...your sickness is not wanted here !!!
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Feeling Unwanted
Being unappreciated by CaptKook and the rest of the Black-Helicopter-Watch Brigade is not surprising.
It's interesting that some think ME Paranoid.
I seem to be the least of the Paranoids. Perhaps because (unlike some here) I'm not anticipating doing ANYTHING that, if caught on video in PUBLIC, I
would be concerned about.
As noted, I have the feeling that those who ARE overly-concerned are likely up to no good and SHOULD be caught at it.
My suggestion IS:
ASSUME that you ARE on Video EVERY moment you're in public and act accordingly.
You AND the rest of us will be better off.
BTW, with the price coming down so much, I just ordered a (4 Camera) CCTV system for the home.
With all the strange people out there who SHOULD be watched, it's a cheap investment.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Staying Honest
Using the "Keeping Honest People Honest" argument is an example of deceptive Misquotation or, rather, Misinterpretation in trying to
make a point.
The intent embodied in (various forms of) said quotation is ONLY that Locks, Fences, etc. don't keep away the thieves. That
they simply help the honest to remain so.
In FACT, of course, security devices of ALL types DO deter crime. Only an Idiot (or Liar) would deny that.
The Balance being discussed is ONLY whether or not said surveillance IN PUBLIC would constrain
Liberty in unreasonable proportion to its effectiveness in deterring crime and/or apprehending criminals.
I have seen ZERO evidence of that occurring.
Even should CCTV surveillance use should become more common in such things as traffic enforcement, it would STILL not be an infringement on Liberty IF
the violations were actually committed. There is NO difference in being caught by a camera and being caught by an L-E officer if the offense is
clear-cut.
OBEY the law or accept the consequences.
Without whining.
[Edited on 2-17-2014 by MrBillM]
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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stub your toe, scream "gosh darnN IT" a hidden microphone picks up your vocal emanation, examines it, identifies you and you get a citation. Not for
profanity but for "Cultural Insensitivity" Some people object to the word "God".
Look, this thing EVENTUALLY is going to become an issue of priorities with priority number two exchanging places with priority number one...
NOW
1. Safety and security
2. Revenue Enhancement
Ever been to traffic court where you are presumed GUILTY until proven innocent? The system is CAREFULLY DESIGNED to thwart those who wish to plead
innocent. Like cases where the accused (cited) MUST WAIT THREE HOURS until all the plead guilty cases are heard.
I was cited for driving 70 in a 55 zone near the Corona. The CHP was a JERK. I made a legal U-Turn, went back to where they had dropped the Speed
Limit Signs with burlap bags tied over the actual sign, took multiple photos, showing, meaning PROVING without a doubt WHERE the signs were located.
A month later THREE HOURS waiting in court. "I rule that there exists NO EVIDENCE of WHEN these photographs were taken". GUILTY!!!!! Pay the bailiff"
I appealed. It cost me four hundred dollars because I had to enlist the services of an attorney. It took them 5 minutes to decide NOT GUILTY.
You take take your hyper surveillance and shove it where the sun don't shine. Enforcement is one thing, skewing justice with revenue enhancement is
another.
And you can bet your sweet assss I endorse red light cameras, as long as IF THE INSTALLATION OF THE CAMERAS DOES NOT COME ALONG WITH SHORTENING THE
LENGTH OF AMBER WARNINGS FROM 5 TO 3 SECONDS.
Get the picture?
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Are they watching???
Yup
In almost every medium to large store in the US (and Mexico) there are surviellance cameras. Everytime you use a credit or debit card the data is
recorded....even when you do an internet search, someone or something is watching.....and providing pop-up ads directed at YOU
You provide info to various commercial businesses and government agencies almost every day.
Ever submit your income taxes, ever have taxes deducted from your paycheck, ever been in the military, ever applied for a professional license....what
about a drivers license....how about filling out and mailing a "product registration card" for your new blender or maybe customer loyalty cards, or
order anything from Amazon.com.......
Why don't we care about the video surviellance cameras or when they want personal information for a credit card at Target and use that personal
information to target you with sopecific ads based on your purchases???
Your cell phone knows when you cross the border and cell towers track your phone's location every time it is turned on. Google Earth street view looks
at your house and makes the photos public for anybody to see.
The "electronic" age makes it difficult to escape surviellance of any kind............
PS: The city of Poway has removed it's traffic enforcement (red light) cameras 
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Funnier Than A Sack Full Of Snot
A Cut & Paste
WASHINGTON -- The Department of Homeland Security is now seeking a vendor to build and operate a smartphone-based national database of vehicle license
plate information that would be shared with law enforcement.
Under the DHS plan, an agent could snap a photo with a smartphone, upload it to the database, and immediately be notified whether the plate is on a
"hot list" of "target vehicles."
"This system is supposed to be for the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement branch of DHS, for the tracking of illegal immigrants," says WTOP National
Security Correspondent J.J. Green.
ICE spokesperson Gillian Christensen tells Federal News Radio, "the database could only be accessed in conjunction with ongoing criminal
investigations."
DHS officially solicited the vendor on the Federal Business Opportunities website, for a National License Plate Recognition Database.
Green says a similar plate recognition system has been in use in the United Kingdom, using an extensive network of closed-circuit television cameras.
"It pretty much catches all the movements of cars, people, buses - pretty much anything that moves, at least in the cities," says Green.
How would the system help?
Homeland Security officials say the use of the database will help agents and officers catch suspects who could pose a public safety threat, and reduce
the man- hours required to conduct surveillance.
According to the solicitation officers would enter the license plate numbers "based on investigative leads to determine where and when the vehicle has
traveled."
The agency says the system would help in locating criminal aliens and absconders "and will enhance officer safety by enabling arrests to occur away
from a subject's residence."
The specifics of how the smartphone application works would be provided by the vendor, although DHS says it is open to a system built around iPhone,
Android or BlackBerry devices.
Are there privacy safeguards?
Some, including the American Civil Liberties Union, are concerned about abusive, invasive, and discriminatory tracking.
Several local police departments in the Washington area use license plate readers, and say they keep the data less than a year.
In a 2013 report entitled "You are being tracked: How license plate readers are being used to record Americans' movements," the ACLU says the
opportunity to misuse the data is large.
"The knowledge that one is subject to constant monitoring can chill the exercise of our cherished rights to free speech and association," according to
the report.
"If not properly secured, license plate reader databases open the door to abusive tracking, enabling anyone with access to pry into the lives of his
boss, his ex- wife, or his romantic, political, or workplace rivals," says the ACLU.
"There are some significant concerns," says WTOP's Green, "and probably rightly so, in light of the Edward Snowden revelations, that it could be used
for something other than what it's intended for."
Green says the increased use of technology in maintaining public safety makes some people nervous.
"You walk out of your house with a smartphone, you're on the grid. You walk to your car, there possibly is a camera that tracks you to your car. You
get in your car, you probably have some sort of WiFi capability in your car, so your car is on the grid. You go into your building there are cameras
in the building."
According to Green, "People are concerned this is going to be another piece of information the government could use to keep tabs on them 24 hours a
day."
"You're just somehow never alone or away from the glaring eyes, in the minds of some, of Big Brother," says Green.
Homeland Security officials say the database would be run by the commercial enterprise and the data would be collected and stored by the enterprise,
not the federal government.
Green expects there would be signage to let people know their license plates might be photographed.
"There are very strict rules for the government to follow," says Green. "The question is, do they always follow them?"
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
Member Is Offline
Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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The Mother Land (USA)
Guess what they have,,, that we don't know about ??? Thanks SNOWDON and others !! the war on terreriosm and drugs are a BAD joke on the folks in the
USA....just Like THREE steel reinforced buildings coming down in Freefall in N.Y. city by two jets !!! Keep that TV on !!!And Lets not talk about the
TSA....freedom at its best !!........ Or NORAD standing down for 911 !!!
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Be AFRAID
Given the outrageous extremes that some here (including CaptKook) anticipate, it's clear that ................
They're NUTS !
When the first of their Doomsday scenarios regarding Innocents BEGINS to occur, those with a bit of sanity can
BEGIN to worry.
Meanwhile, it seems that those we should worry about is those who are worried.
BTW, A reliable indicator when assessing the Loco factor is ALWAYS the "911 Conspiracy Quakery Quotient".
[Edited on 2-18-2014 by MrBillM]
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Opinons are like .............
Anuses.
The validity of an opinion would be its relationship to FACTS and EVIDENCE.
Those Kooky opinions that exceed dramatically the boundaries of current evidence should be viewed with doubt.
Until shown otherwise.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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ALL SHOOK UP
Watching for CaptKook !
IF somebody shows up wearing a cap with a spinning propeller on it, I'll assume that's the Capt.
Be advised, though, I DO have friends.
Who have Black Helicopters.
And, will find you.
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