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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
Posts: 1592
Registered: 2-22-2008
Location: On the Road
Member Is Offline
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Most people using Spot, including myself, are mainly interested in keeping friends and family informed as to their whereabouts as they travel. If you
were to disappear, as has happened in the last few cases, at least they would know where to start looking. In the states, you could expect help from
the Coast Guard, or nearest Sheriffs dept. In Baja, the nomads would find you pretty quickly with that information. 
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dizzyspots
Senior Nomad
Posts: 603
Registered: 9-22-2008
Location: Mescal AZ
Member Is Offline
Mood: rather be on the beach at Gonzaga
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Sadly there is no subscription for a dose of common sense....
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2725
Registered: 5-10-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
People who use the devices to request "non-salty" water and hot chocolate should be billed for equipment and personnel time. |
Very often, they are. I remember a river canoeist activating PLB twice, a device somewhat similar to Spot. First time he's got stranded due to heavy
weather in the fall and was about to run out of food. When chopper arrived, the guy was well fed, healthy, and with a food supply still for a few
days. He was just being "cautious"  . Rangers airlifted him, explained him what
"emergency" meant, and warned to bill him next time.
So next time he went in spring to retrieve the canoe, planning to hike there a week and then a day paddle down the river. When he came, the canoe
wasn't there, and he couldn't hike back - don't remember why, probably didn't have enough food for a week hike, counting on a day paddle instead. So
he SOS-d the chopper again. This time they were mad, told him that it was intentional and again not an emergency, and billed him.
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
I have known of some cases where the "victim's" homeowner insurance paid equipment and personnel costs for actual emergencies |
Why would an insurance pay for non-emergency evacuation, and if it was an emergency then why he was billed to begin with?
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
Most people using Spot, including myself, are mainly interested in keeping friends and family informed as to their whereabouts as they travel. If you
were to disappear, as has happened in the last few cases, at least they would know where to start looking. In the states, you could expect help from
the Coast Guard, or nearest Sheriffs dept. In Baja, the nomads would find you pretty quickly with that information. |
ditto
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2725
Registered: 5-10-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
Most people using Spot, including myself, are mainly interested in keeping friends and family informed as to their whereabouts as they travel. If you
were to disappear, as has happened in the last few cases, at least they would know where to start looking. In the states, you could expect help from
the Coast Guard, or nearest Sheriffs dept. In Baja, the nomads would find you pretty quickly with that information. |
ditto |
Tracking by Spot or Delorne is just tracking - showing your location at certain intervals. This would work for non-emergency assistance, mostly on
land.
There were numerous reports where both Spot and Delorne missed some entries, so the latest location was from many hours ago. Then, if everything is
OK, a new entry comes in and those who track you, will know where you are. If everything is not Ok, it can be too late by then. And there should be
somebody who is watching your tracking and is doing this frequently enough. Not everybody has a bunch of family members and friends who have nothing
better to do but checking your log every hour.
So there is 911 button for emergencies. You may not need it all the time - a normal person is not in emergency situation all the time.
As to the evacuation or rescue through the Geos Alliance insurance when you activate 911 button on one of their approved devices or dial a phone
number on any sat phone (the latter only works for evacuation plan, not rescue) - it is affordable but there are conditions attached. You have to be
at least 99 miles from your "main home". Geos, same as most insurers, don't explain much what they mean by "main home" (can also be called permanent
home or principal address in other plans). If you meet the conditions, Geos will pay for evacuation (and/or rescue) to the nearest medical facility
and then to hospital nearest your main home. So there is a question where your "main home" is.
[Edited on 3-30-2014 by Alm]
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freediverbrian
Senior Nomad
Posts: 619
Registered: 2-24-2007
Location: Papas Gonzaga Bay
Member Is Offline
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The sailboat hit Coronado island during a race to Ensanada at 1:30 in the morning. Two on board died of blunt force trama . Some how I don't think an
emergency spot would have changed the out come.
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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
Posts: 1592
Registered: 2-22-2008
Location: On the Road
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by freediverbrian
The sailboat hit Coronado island during a race to Ensanada at 1:30 in the morning. Two on board died of blunt force trama . Some how I don't think an
emergency spot would have changed the out come. |
I don't think anyone familiar with spot would have expected it to. At least the last location would have been known.
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2725
Registered: 5-10-2011
Member Is Offline
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When incident like this happens and people die in a matter of minutes, nothing can be done. Even on land in locations on Hwy1 within 30 miles from the
Red Cross ambulance base, it may take them 2 or 3 hours to arrive. This is Mexico, after all.
If you are a boater and something happens to the boat and you're unconscious, there are floating EPIRB that will send SOS automatically when immersed
in water, and will keep sending it every minute or so, for 20 or 30 hours. In devices like Spot and Delorne you always have to activate a distress
button manually.
| Quote: | | At least the last location would have been known. |
Right. Ensenada cemetery
[Edited on 3-30-2014 by Alm]
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KasloKid
Nomad
Posts: 326
Registered: 8-29-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MMc
I'm sure I'll be shouted down but, what the hell. I see no need for a spot. If you go play the game, you should know and except the rules. If part of
the game is that you can be hurt or die so be it. Asking that others go out of their way or put themselves at risk to save you is just wrong. Stupidly
should be pailful and if appropriate deadly. "if you got yourself into get yourself out".
I have done a bunch of stupid and life threatening stuff in the name of fun. Always considered getting rescued as a unexceptional fail.
This thinking that a spot will save you is B S if you don't have a support team to step up first.
I love adventure, I didn't have kids because I didn't want them to grow up without a father. When I go to Baja by myself. I check in with my wife and
tell her when and where I'll be, if that is changes she is told. When I would go to climbing some far mountain or rock she wouldn't hear for weeks.
I know this will not make me any points with those that believe that we all should of protected by something or someone. |
Wow.... I guess you don't believe in purchasing house fire and theft insurance, vehicle insurance or life insurance due to accidental death?
Like the majority of SPOT subscribers, we all have back up plans and contingency plans. If I am forced into pressing the 911 button, you can be rest
assured that either one of my buddies or myself is in a life threatening situation that requires immediate evacuation. Most of my buddies are
effective in administrating first aid and would only push that button if we deemed it absolutely necessary. We would also try all other means to save
a life, including trying a cellular phone, vhf radio, send a rider for help etc etc.
By the way, I am a former search and rescue volunteer, my son is an active volunteer, and another is a paramedic.
Also, we all have kids to come home to at the end of our excursions.
Did I stir the pot???? 
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline
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KasloKid, you said it very well.
MMc a spot is as much for your loved ones to know where you are as it is for you to send for help. If you don't want one that's OK.
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2725
Registered: 5-10-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by KasloKid
Wow.... I guess you don't believe in purchasing house fire and theft insurance, vehicle insurance or life insurance due to accidental death
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Kid, a different point of view of MMC is due to a different situation - though not unusual one.
When there are no children why would one need accidental death insurance? To keep a wife waiting and anticipating when old and useless hubby would
suddenly make her rich?
He is right that people should better not count on timely rescue in places like Mexico, especially when there is no support team to step up
immediately. It's more important to invest in learning taking care of yourself because this you will need, while pre-paid rescue may or may not come
in time.
Still, having some means to send a distress signal is a must, if you are pursuing dangerous activities in remote locations. Subscription to tracking
service of Spot is not it. 911 button of Spot - maybe. Email protocol of Spot, same as any email, is not the most reliable way though. Or PLB. Or sat
phone.
I'm a believer in insurance, but trying to keep donations to this "church" to bare minimum. Have had enough of bad experience with insurers.
[Edited on 3-31-2014 by Alm]
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5898
Registered: 7-18-2011
Member Is Offline
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You have a good memory.
My new favorite is the Lighthouse though.
Great service and staff.
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Hey Ateo I thought your preference was Poco Cielo? | Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
In fact, I'll be sending out an SOS from the bar in La Fonda around 6PM tonight.
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Kgryfon
Senior Nomad
Posts: 624
Registered: 1-27-2009
Location: East Bay, CA
Member Is Offline
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"Guess I'll stop SOS'ing for reinforcements of Tecate and Tacos, and save it for emergency only situations. "
That doesn't qualify as an emergency situation? 
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MMc
Super Nomad
Posts: 1679
Registered: 6-29-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: Current
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KasloKid, we will have to agree to disagree. I do have all said insurance, because it is the responsible thing to do. Insurance is a gamble, it is
there for catastrophic events that you might not have the money to recover from. I don't see SPOT as insurance.
Would you alter your trip if you didn't have a Spot? If you could not send a 911 spot, what would you do? Would you use one if you had a catastrophic
motor issue? ("You" being pejorative). The idea that somebody will help me if I push the 911 button is a false one. It takes 10 to 12 hours to set up
life-flight. Try to get a Helicopter evac in Baja, I don't know if it could be done on short notice.
There are far more folks ill prepared venturing into Baja these days. I have helped many of them out. I have and will continue to help as long as it
does not endanger my party. Most activities in Baja are relativity safe and don't domino out of control. I also carry a large first aid box and a full
toolbox. It seems that I spend more time using both of them today then 15 years ago.
I have helped with many SARC teams and never once seen a time when they didn't put the team before the rescued person. Their risk might be high, but
always understood and excepted.
If it used to let the folks back home you are safe and OK, cool.
Checking in daily isn't high on my families list.
Alm, I wouldn't want to leave her with to much overhead to manage.
[Edited on 4-1-2014 by MMc]
[Edited on 4-1-2014 by MMc]
[Edited on 4-1-2014 by MMc]
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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MMc
Super Nomad
Posts: 1679
Registered: 6-29-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: Current
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When I got home today I was talking about this thread. She laughed and said," Why don't these guys press that 911 button with one hand and sh!t in the
other, see which helps the most. Neither one is going to help anything soon. You better get busy and do, or die trying. You're the determining factor
on living or being a statistic."
We will be married 30 years this month, guess we're on the same page.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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