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Justbozo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 11-20-2012
Location: Lake Michigan/Bahia Concepcion
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Mood: Got my little stone hut on the bay
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The wall mount DI unit is nice.
Just a couple of suggestions to give you maximum longevity and water safety.
1) The native water supply in BCS is very high in mineral content and potentially other handling introduced contaminates. I would recommend that you
run the inlet water through a whole house type 5 micron carbon filter. If you have a water softener DO NOT use soft water to feed the DI. This may
sound contrary but the added sodium ions will wreak havoc on the DI unit.
2) Get a refrigerator ice maker water filter (through away replacement cylinder) and install it in line between the carbon filter and the DI unit.
This will polish the inlet water as good as you can before going into the DI. These two filters will give you maximum life from your DI. If you use no
filters the life of the DI will easily be less than half the advertised 600 gallons. Thier estimate is probably based on 6-8 grain hardness supply
water while BCS water is 20+ grains hard, three times harder, 1/3rd the life.
3) The installed indicator light is "OK" but probably isn't an on/off light. As the unit goes bad the light will gradually come on. As bright as it is
in BCS you may not see the light building. The hose is convenient but the nearest replacement battery isn't. I would run the water into your battery
watering can or clean storage jug and test it with the TDS meter for 0-5 ppm. Get spare disc type batteries for the TDS meter as they may be hard to
come by in BCS.
4) Playing in the water will keep the kid in you alive! Water is fun!
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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Quote: Originally posted by Justbozo  | | Take it from someone who has been making pure water (0-5 ppm) for high pressure and temperature boilers at the rate of 240 gallons per minute since
1970. |
wow same job for 45 years...time to retire
you must have had some BIG pump to pump 2400 gallons a minute thru a filter to end up with 240 gallons a minute of pretty clean drinking water
what did you do with all the "bad waste water"
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Justbozo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 11-20-2012
Location: Lake Michigan/Bahia Concepcion
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Mood: Got my little stone hut on the bay
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Bob
I started in the Navy running flash type evaporators (distilled water from sea water) making about 100 gallons per hour.
I then was able to parlay that into a 35 year career with a statewide electric utility generating plants. Water production was by
DI plant with 3 12" wells feeding it. The reason you don't see DI of any size in homes is to be able to regenerate the resin bed
requires using strong acids and caustic in regulated flow. The waste must then be processed .
Yes I am now retired and back to the salt water.
As I motor past your place in my panga, I admire your oasis on the beach.
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2725
Registered: 5-10-2011
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Justbozo: those 3 steps confirm what I thought - the suggested deionizer in itself won't do much good. Even after all those steps it won't be as good
as a distilled water, no filtered water ever will.
Not worth the trouble, since very little water is needed. Other than Bob's unspecified system with 6 gal/month, with a proper charging algorithm (i.e.
not boiling them at 15V for hours) a distillate will cost less than 30 bucks a year.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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good answer justbozo...
now...you really cant live on 2 golf cart batteries
unless you live in a trailer
you shouldn't use water that has been filtered
I need electricity...tv fridg...freezer...water pumps...lights...drills...table saw...washer dryer
solar power is just battery power
solar panels just charge the batteries
if the batteries aren't "hot" they sulfate up
distilled water is $1 a gallon...its cheap to "do the right thing"
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El Jefe
Super Nomad
Posts: 1027
Registered: 10-27-2003
Location: South East Cape
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I'm in the same boat as Bob. I have a large array, large batteries and run lots of stuff, a pool included as well as AC at times. So, yes, we go
through about five to six gallons in a hot month. Not as much in the winter.
But it is really about convenience and trust. The "distilled" water we get from Formula Uno may or may not be pure. A neighbor tested it and found his
filtered water was better. And Formula Uno are the only reliable source. They often run out. When Walmart first opened in San Jose they had pallets of
Arrowhead distilled water cheap. We shatched those up! Haven't seen distilled there since. And it is a long way to town anyways.
So, the convenience of getting acceptable water out of the filter thing is worth the money I spent. It is not at all about price. We are only talking
a couple hundred bucks here.
And by the way, thanks for all the great info above guys. Great to get the word from folks in the know.
[Edited on 5-10-2015 by El Jefe]
No b-tchin\' in the Baja.
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2725
Registered: 5-10-2011
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Yes, a house takes more than 2 GC batts to live on. Still, shouldn't take a lot of water even with 10*GC.
Batteries don't need to be hot, in order to function properly or to prevent sulfating.
When they are "boiling" at +14V Absorption voltage, this doesn't really mean "hot", and they don't need to be charged at that voltage for longer than
they have to. 1 or 2 hours is usually enough. Then they should go to Float voltage @13.6-13.7V (double the value for 24V system). Solar chargers do
this automatically (if it doesn't, replace the charger).
To prevent sulfating, 2 conditions should be met: battery should be charged at Absorption voltage for an hour or two, and it should get to 95-98% SOC
(= State of Charge), daily.
But, if solar can't get them to more than 90% and you don't want to run a generator to augment the solar charging (before solar), the you do need to
boil them forcefully, performing Equalization procedure once a week or so.
And, solar panels don't "just charge the batteries". If the system is adequately sized for a given household, on an average day it will bring the
batts to Abs and then to Float at midday. After this, the battery acceptance rate drops, it can't accept all the current that solar generates, so the
excessive current from solar goes straight to your loads. If you have a battery monitor, you can see this by turning the loads on and off - if current
to battery stays the same, then this is it.
[Edited on 5-10-2015 by Alm]
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hookemup
Junior Nomad
Posts: 63
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: pac nw/ cabo pulmo
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El Jefe
Chapetos (sp) in LB almost always has a good stock of Arrowhead distilled. They restock soon after they run out. Bought 24 gals last trip.
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Justbozo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 11-20-2012
Location: Lake Michigan/Bahia Concepcion
Member Is Offline
Mood: Got my little stone hut on the bay
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Pure water is pure water. Period.
How it gets that way when you are the end user means nothing.
0 ppm is 0 ppm.
Boiled, electrical attraction , or membrane is no difference .
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2725
Registered: 5-10-2011
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One more thing - in case if it's been overlooked.
In places like Baja using a remote temperature sensor on your charger is a must. Without it, on a warm day you'll be really frying your batteries,
losing more water and shortening their life.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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justbozo is correct 0 = 0
it doesn't matter how you get there
but anything above 0 is unacceptable
alm...all that "extra stuff" is the "bs" part
and 24v is NOT double the voltage of 12v
and 48v is NOT double 24v or 4 times 12v
you need solar panels
a breaker to turn them off
a charge controller to control the battery voltage
batteries
a breaker to turn them off
a small $3 hydrometer
and an inverter
voltage is NOT the condition of the batteries
it's ONLY an indicator
the $3 hydrometer shows the condition
that's all you need to live off solar
solar designed batteries are NOT golf cart batteries
all this amp hour "stuff" for batteries is incorrect if not at the tested temp (70f) and its a hundred here for months at a time
one more thing...in Baja you need backup parts...
just in case...they aren't here
things break
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2725
Registered: 5-10-2011
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Oh well... Bob, you are right on "some" points, to put it that way.
A little 101 here, to clear the fog.
Yes, voltage is only an indicator of battery SOC, and it depends on what "voltage" you're talking about.
Open circuit voltage of RESTED battery is a good indicator, the 2nd best after measuring specific gravity with a hydrometer.
Charging voltage - when it goes through ~14.8 peak, stays there for an hour and drops to 13.6 for the rest of the day - is called
"charging set points". When battery is past the 14.8 peak, it can be anywhere between 70% and 95% SOC. These set points have little to do with "rested
voltage", and they depend on the temperature (see below).
Temperature:
Charging set points are specified for default 77F. When temperature is rising above 77F, charging voltage should be adjusted lower.
This is what temperature sensor is for. If you're charging it at 90F with the voltage specified for 77F, you're frying them.
24V:
Charging set points are specified either for battery bank or per 2V cell. This is how battery manuals are written. Total voltage is in direct
relationship with the number of cells. If recommended Float is 2.26V per cell, then it is 13.6V for a "nominal" 12V bank and 2*13.6
for nominal 24V bank.
"Amp-hour stuff is incorrect" - What "stuff", Bob? 
Amp-hours is a unit for energy in/out, or battery capacity. Battery bank size determines the solar array size. You may call it "bs", I don't think
engineers care. Or you may get used to it, because this is how things are measured in the industry.
"Solar designed batteries are not golf cart batteries" - yeah, well, if you say so...
I haven't heard of batteries designed specifically for "solar" as their only use. Important requirement is that the battery should be deep cycle.
Voltage of individual battery can be 12V, 6V, 2V, and capacity varies wildly. Some of the best batteries for solar are 2V. Golf cart batteries are
"OK" for the price.
Off my soap box.
[Edited on 5-11-2015 by Alm]
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