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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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Quote: Originally posted by ssdaniels  | | I like the video Motoged. I actually found and watched that about a year ago when we first started thinking about a Baja trip. Ill have to play
armchair tourist and watch it again. My wife and I both work for the forest service and I'm guessing we will find the roads down there are really no
worse than the forest service roads we travel everyday up here in California. |
Cool 
Yes, the Baja roads are like bad FSR's (here in Canada they can be worse than some of what NorCal offers).....hardpack gravel with washboard and
babyheads....interspersed with soft sand double-track, siltbeds (mostly on Pacific side in my experience)....with occasional washout ruts that can
sneak up on you and swallow a pickup....
My rule of thumb for Baja backroads: Expect that 40 feet over the crest of EVERY hill or rise in the road will be a right angle turn with no escape
route, a deep washout rut, and/ or a few burros snacking on something....or vehicle coming at you.
The soft sand is probably the main driving hazard....most of my Baja travel is by moto....but when in the pickup, I tend to not want to get onto beach
or dune terrain unless I scope it out on foot first...the coastal flats can be inviting but are goo-pits waiting to eat your ride....
Sounds like you guys have a clue and will have fun....as others have said...."Take your time and don't try to cram it all in....you will love it and
return frequently"....or will go home complaining about something.
Don't believe everything you think....
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ssdaniels
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I think the only thing we will go home complaining about is having to go home! haha. we will be carrying MaxTrax and airing down for the soft sand.
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4290
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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the road into Agua Verde is 40 kilometers
the first 10 km are paved
end: 25°33'34.06"N, 111°14'52.25"W
pavement section has bad washouts within the first 5 km
the graded part is in excellent condition
just back from there - it's getting popular and crowded
Harald Pietschmann
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motoged
Elite Nomad
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Location: Kamloops, BC
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Thanks for the update on the road.....too bad the pavement is already washing out....but not surprised.
Harald....the valley going east-west to the west of the AV road (and south of highway) has some road/tracks along the river/water....but appears to be
only accessible from a few of the ranchos west of the AV road and those accessed from the highway (west of AV road). There is a power line in there
somewhere , too
Looks like a cool valley to explore.....
Don't believe everything you think....
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64858
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: Originally posted by ssdaniels | | I think the only thing we will go home complaining about is having to go home! haha. we will be carrying MaxTrax and airing down for the soft sand.
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That will exactly be what it is!
Great job posting photos here!!!
Sand in Baja can be different than any other... on the beach of the gulf side, a lot of crushed shell or coral makes it much harder to "float" (or
easier to sink in)... so don't be surprised if you find that you need to drop the pressure to 10 psi in front and 8 psi in the back tires... if the
"typical 15 psi doesn't work on all beach or arroyo sands you try to cross. Naturally you want an accurate dial style tire gauge that reads less than
10 psi.
I have never needed the sand tracks, so as Harald mentioned, leave them at home... If you sink in sand, you haven't let enough air out, that's all.
Never spin the tires... as soon as forward progress is halted by deep sand, stop and let out more air! Clear away any built up sand from in front of
all four tires so you can roll ahead without having "tire blocks" halting your forward movement and causing tire spin.
I have been impressed with the videos I have seen of Subaru's symmetrical all-wheel drive system, which seems to incorporate traction control/ limited
slip, despite there being no low range gearing offered anymore. My three 4WD Subarus were from the 1977-1987 period when they were part-time front to
four-wheel drive and on my third Subaru, a low range was added to the system. Even with the small 13" tires, I could take them almost everywhere in
Baja I wanted to go!
Deep sand was the primary use for 4WD as it was here in 1978 with my first Subaru, on Shell Island (Km. 26, south of San Felipe)...
I could sure pack a lot of camping gear in and on the Subaru!
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snosk8ter
Newbie
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Location: Chino Hills, CA
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The wife and I will be doing almost the same trip at the end of April. We will head north after Punta San Fransquito. My Father is going by there at
the beginning of April on a moto he will let me know what is available at PSFO
We went to agua Verde last year, It was a neat place.
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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| Quote: Originally posted by motoged | Thanks for the update on the road.....too bad the pavement is already washing out....but not surprised.
Harald....the valley going east-west to the west of the AV road (and south of highway) has some road/tracks along the river/water....but appears to be
only accessible from a few of the ranchos west of the AV road and those accessed from the highway (west of AV road). There is a power line in there
somewhere , too
Looks like a cool valley to explore..... |
well, there is the one valley right next to MEX1 (that one has the power line)and then there is another one parallel about 3 miles to the south
got lost in both of them - never completed either one
time to go back
last time I ended up in a very remote area (Arroyo Santa Gertrudis)
was supposed to pick up my girlfriend at La Paz airport
missed her by a day
Baja is relentless
Harald Pietschmann
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | so don't be surprised if you find that you need to drop the pressure to 10 psi in front and 8 psi in the back tires... |
as long as all tires carry about the same load - tire pressure should be equal on a 4. Higher pressure in the front will only create unwanted
resistance. Resistance translates to stuck.
Only on very steep grades (when the center of gravity changes to the back) you may want 5 psi in the front and 10 psi in the rear. To be immediately
corrected when level.
And by the way, tires for off-road should have the smallest wheel possible (15" better than 16") and the tires should be as large as possible. If the
gearing would suffer too much (Subaru) get the widest tire possible (225 better than 215).
Why? More volume of air in the tires. More flexibility for airing down.
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64858
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | | so don't be surprised if you find that you need to drop the pressure to 10 psi in front and 8 psi in the back tires... |
as long as all tires carry about the same load - tire pressure should be equal on a 4. Higher pressure in the front will only create unwanted
resistance. Resistance translates to stuck.
Only on very steep grades (when the center of gravity changes to the back) you may want 5 psi in the front and 10 psi in the rear. To be immediately
corrected when level.
And by the way, tires for off-road should have the smallest wheel possible (15" better than 16") and the tires should be as large as possible. If the
gearing would suffer too much (Subaru) get the widest tire possible (225 better than 215).
Why? More volume of air in the tires. More flexibility for airing down. |
When beach running, more weight (from engine, etc.) is over the front tires, so, for the rears to have as much contact area as the deflated front
tires, more air is removed from them to correct for the lighter back tire load. If your truck or SUV is heavily packed then that would balance the
weight over all four tires better. Anyway, that has always worked well for me and never any issues with the transfer case. Normally, all four are
deflated equally to 20, 15, or 10 psi depending on the need. Only if 10 psi doesn't work would I take more out of the backs (as they don't steer so
less chance of popping the bead).
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ehall
Super Nomad
Posts: 1906
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Location: Buckeye, Az
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Mood: It's 5 o'clock somewhere
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | | so don't be surprised if you find that you need to drop the pressure to 10 psi in front and 8 psi in the back tires... |
as long as all tires carry about the same load - tire pressure should be equal on a 4. Higher pressure in the front will only create unwanted
resistance. Resistance translates to stuck.
Only on very steep grades (when the center of gravity changes to the back) you may want 5 psi in the front and 10 psi in the rear. To be immediately
corrected when level.
And by the way, tires for off-road should have the smallest wheel possible (15" better than 16") and the tires should be as large as possible. If the
gearing would suffer too much (Subaru) get the widest tire possible (225 better than 215).
Why? More volume of air in the tires. More flexibility for airing down. |
When beach running, more weight (from engine, etc.) is over the front tires, so, for the rears to have as much contact area as the deflated front
tires, more air is removed from them to correct for the lighter back tire load. If your truck or SUV is heavily packed then that would balance the
weight over all four tires better. Anyway, that has always worked well for me and never any issues with the transfer case. Normally, all four are
deflated equally to 20, 15, or 10 psi depending on the need. Only if 10 psi doesn't work would I take more out of the backs (as they don't steer so
less chance of popping the bead). |
Funny on my jeep when I am fully loaded for a trip the back is heavier than the front. You can really tell when I air down.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64858
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Naturally... same for me in a truck. Two full ice chests + the other stuff are heavy!
But, when camp is set up and we want to go shell collecting or checking out the island, the back is empty (other than fuel tank weight).
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
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| Quote: Originally posted by ssdaniels | | I think the only thing we will go home complaining about is having to go home! haha. we will be carrying MaxTrax and airing down for the soft sand.
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don't let these blowhards tell you leave the max trax home,they have no idea where you'll be traveling or in what terrain, maybe you'll do more than
drive in circles around dirt island!
ask StuckSucks how he feels about max trax.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64858
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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4x4abc wrote books about four wheeling. He speaks the truth and I am just agreeing as I have a lifetime of sand driving experience. If you can't get
your rig to float on sand, what happens when you leave the max trax after a couple of feet?
I will guess the OP likes having them and already has a spot on his Outback for them. We just want the guy to know how to go more than 4 feet on sand.
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4290
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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here is more on sand and tires:
http://4x4abc.com/jeep101/soft-sand-turn-straight.html
http://4x4abc.com/jeep101/soft-sand-deflate.html
http://4x4abc.com/jeep101/soft-sand.html
Harald Pietschmann
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ssdaniels
Newbie
Posts: 9
Registered: 3-6-2016
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Thanks for all the advice on the MaxTrax i think ill pass on them and use the money for something else. 4x4abc those are some good tips you have on
those sites.
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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Do they have sand in Germany?
Bob Durrell
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64858
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: Originally posted by ssdaniels | | Thanks for all the advice on the MaxTrax i think ill pass on them and use the money for something else. 4x4abc those are some good tips you have on
those sites. |
Here is my post on Tacoma World about deflating for sand driving: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/baja-beach-4wd-32-psi-to...
32 PSI the truck was digging in and slightly sideways on the steep beach. Once deflated to 15 PSI, the truck 'floated' on the sand and drove straight.
I circled back to take these photos.
On another trip, Art (edm-1) came out to Shell Island to camp with us... only he hadn't deflated enough and almost got swallowed by the rising tide!
Once he let more air out of the tires, he achieved floatation!!!
It's all about air pressure!
You must be willing to let more out!!
Warning... but not too much, and drive straight as possible. 10 psi should be good, but you could go as low as 8 if needed.
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ssdaniels
Newbie
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Registered: 3-6-2016
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Thats a pretty sweet van! One good thing with our subaru is that its pretty light. after hearing all of your advice and experience i know we will be
fine, just monitor air pressure and be aware of what we are doing.
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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we invented sand
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Location: San Diego County
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LOL...
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