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norte
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Does Los Pinos have farm acreage in El Rosario?
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thebajarunner
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In June we counted 15 school buses between San Quintin and El Rosario. More parked at the giant new ag farm under the bridge
And more parked past the mountain near El Progreso at yet more new plantings
Their tentacles are everywhere
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norte
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Best to check on who owns the farm before blasting them. Last I knew it was owned by big El Rosario land owner. I know many in El Rosario use
workers from Los Pinos… Just wondering. Los Pinos does own land by El Descanso.
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John Harper
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A lot of water issues are simple human mismanagement, greed, and politics. Here's part of where we went awry. All excellent reads.
"Cadillac Desert" by Reisner
"The King of California" by Arax and Wartzman (corporate farming in Central Cal)
"Water and Power" by Kahrl
None of California's water problems were caused by salmon. steelhead, or smelt. All man made disasters.
John
[Edited on 8-25-2018 by John Harper]
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bajaric
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Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner  | Living in the great Central Valley we know all too well the problem of greedy eyes lurking about, craving some, and then more and then even more of
our precious water.
End of rant.... I hope |
When I read that I thought you were referring to Friant Dam.... The San Joaquin river was once a navigable waterway, until that dam took ALL the
water. Now what was once a vast riparian wetlands is a bone dry patch of wasteland surrounded by corporate agribusiness, tract homes, and smog. And
you are worried about some farmer in Baja drilling a well?
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PaulW
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There is plenty of water all along the Baja pacific coast. The problem is the ground water is infiltrated with sea water due to excessive well pumping
inland. The larger cities in the north have solved that issue with large reverse osmosis plants now connected to the domestic piping systems.
That is what the farms are doing in the San Quintin area. Good water means very good crops of the highest quality. Thus a booming economy for all.
El Rosario needs to bite the bullet and get the funding to move forward to the present days. Not only is the RO plant expensive, but the recurring
electrical cost is very high. Then they will discover that the piping infrastructure is inadequate and has to be upgraded. Same thing is taking place
in the northern cities as an ongoing effort
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John Harper
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| Quote: Originally posted by bajaric | | Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner | Living in the great Central Valley we know all too well the problem of greedy eyes lurking about, craving some, and then more and then even more of
our precious water.
End of rant.... I hope |
When I read that I thought you were referring to Friant Dam.... The San Joaquin river was once a navigable waterway, until that dam took ALL the
water. Now what was once a vast riparian wetlands is a bone dry patch of wasteland surrounded by corporate agribusiness, tract homes, and smog. And
you are worried about some farmer in Baja drilling a well? |
Yep, and a lot of that water the farmers get is virtually FREE!!! Save Tulare Lake!!!! Oops, way too late.
John
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chuckie
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The Ogalala aquifer, which provides water for the breadbasket of America, is dropping like a stone . Mt Pop referenced this in an earlier post. A real
disaster in the making.
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Mexitron
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| Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner | The water woes at Baja Cactus (on another thread with an unfortunate title) bring to mind some of my experiences and observations relative to water.
Living in the great Central Valley we know all too well the problem of greedy eyes lurking about, craving some, and then more and then even more of
our precious water.
Now the dim bulbs at the State Water board think it would be a real good idea to send 50% of our clean mountain water out to sea to support a
dwindling salmon population.
Now, mind you, I really like salmon, but eating the produce of the valley and seeing the jobs it supports is a lot more important than saving a couple
thousand fish.
Here comes the real problem.
When river water is not available the desperate farmer starts drilling. Deep!!
And then the ground starts to drop, the neighbors start losing their wells, they drill deeper, and on it goes.
In Baja I know the folks at Rancho Santa Marta in San Vicente.
Years ago their fairly shallow well was struggling, the quality was not so good, so they put in applications for a deep well, since they are farming
some 600 acres in addition to the orphanage and school. Most of what they produce is "dry" farming, winter crops that depend on rain. When after
several years they got their permit the government put a meter on the well, they did not use as much water as they had predicted, and they were warned
to use more water or lose rights to the well. Just over the hill you will note that LACetto has a massive vineyard, obviously irrigated by deep
wells. The question is not if the water will last, but simply when will it be exhausted.
When I first raced the 1000 we saw very lush farming around Villa Constitucion. Years later I heard that when the water table had dropped to about
2500 feet they were no longer able to sustain any pumping and lost much of this farming.
So, now to El Rosario. When I see the entire river valley being farmed I know that the wells are sustaining the crops, but for how long? And how
much impact on the town people of El Rosario? Sad to see all of those school buses coming up from you know who, down in San Quintin and drawing down
the water table. Go just a few more miles over the mountain south and see the farms (with the same school buses) emerging in the valleys and the
local areas. Again, how long will that aquifer sustain this level of draw down?
Anyone wonder why Baja Cactus and the homes around are out of water?
Just check out the green fields under the big bridge.
I understand progress. Hey, I am a real estate developer, I catch lots of heat from environmentalists. But, we never build where the basic
necessities cannot be sustained. And today I see the large commercial farming interests coming in, drilling, drawing down, and then bailing out,
whilst the local folks contemplate just how to sustain their own basic lifestyles.
End of rant.... I hope |
As to the salmon I tend to agree that throwing expensive environmental solutions at marginal populations is not in our best interest. Take that money
and buy pristine land/rivers that are already in good shape and protect it. As to the water in CA very few realize that upwards of 50% of the state's
water is used to grow cattle, and for a very minor portion of the state's economy. Almonds and housing are the whipping posts for water use but they
only account for 10 and 20 percent respectively.
Baja doesn't seem to have that problem as the cattle are range fed, just too much water being drawn from scarce resources.
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thebajarunner
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Much to respond to here
Los Pinos may not "own" the farm in El Rosario but they clearly are operating it. Many land owners here have leased their lands to large
conglomerates.
Dams. Without dams and canals the Central Valley (the richest farm in the world) would look like El Marmol. Pure, sheer desert.
Like 'em or not, the dams have fed you and supported us who live here.
Cattle do not use 50% of the water in California. Actually alfalfa uses about 18% but much of that goes to horses or is a cash crop export to China
and Japan. (Got to put something in those empty container ships headed back for more Chinamade trinkets)
Aquifers and overdraft. Once upon a time we had lots of ground water here. Now the areas along I-5 in Merced and Madera Counties have seen the land
drop 25-30 feet due to pumping. Know what a 25 foot drop does to the canals and highways running through there? Not pretty.
One of my Baja traveling partners lives just outside the city limits of Merced. 800 acre farm developed this year close by, 3 massive deep wells for
irrigation and all the people on John's street lost their wells.
And inland Baja has absolutely no aquifer storage comparable to Central California.
And, by the way, I love the way that SoCal lines all of its riverbottoms with concrete to make certain that none of the fresh water runoff can perk
back into the ground!! No need, just send some more down from our Delta.
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AKgringo
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Thebajarunner, I grew up, (and still have property) a couple of hours up highway 49 from you near Grass Valley. The primary aquifers in my area are
ancient river channels, and fractured shale bedrock.
As more people tap into the aquifer, the water level has been dropping. I have contsructed a couple of ponds to capture the excess run off that
occurs every winter.
This is frowned upon by the local water distrct, which considers even rain as their property! I did it anyway, because in addition to slowly
recharging the ground water, I have ponds most of the fire season that can help save property and lives!
In those areas of the central valley that have settled due to excessive pumping, the storage capacity is depleted along with the water. That land is
never going to rise again!
And now they are still planning on pumping even more water to Southern California. to grow subdivisions!
[Edited on 8-25-2018 by AKgringo]
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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thebajarunner
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Now you are creating another problem for yourself
| Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo | Thebajarunner, I grew up, (and still have property) a couple of hours up highway 49 from you near Grass Valley. The primary aquifers in my area are
ancient river channels, and fractured shale bedrock.
As more people tap into the aquifer, the water level has been dropping. I have contsructed a couple of ponds to capture the excess run off that
occurs every winter.
This is frowned upon by the local water distrct, which considers even rain as their property! I did it anyway, because in addition to slowly
recharging the ground water, I have ponds most of the fire season that can help save property and lives!
In those areas of the central valley that have settled due to excessive pumping, the storage capacity is depleted along with the water. That land is
never going to rise again!
And now they are still planning on pumping even more water to Southern California. to grow subdivisions!
[Edited on 8-25-2018 by AKgringo] |
You are doing exactly what I would do.
BUT>>>>>
You have now created "Natural habitat" in the eyes of our great state of California.
Few years ago I had a really primo subdivision in planning up near the New Hogan Reservoir.
Then the state sent one of their gee-whiz super snoops around and declared that the places where years ago the farmer had scooped out little holding
ponds so that his grazing stock would have water part of the year "might" be a habitat for the Tiger Salamander.
These were all manmade and miles from any other habitat
But the state said we had an 18 month hold and a $100k fee for them to park someone on site and watch and see if the little guys ever made an
appearance.
I walked!
Don't you just love government and the way that they protect us????
NOT!!
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AKgringo
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Don't forget extensive testing for industrial contaminates since my property was mined during the goldrush, and again during the depression in the
30s!
I ran into all that hoopla when I inquired about adjusting the lot line between two properties that I own. No new lots were going to be created, no
change in use status, no change of ownership or square footage of either parcel, but I was going to have to pay for fees, surveys, and permits as if I
was carving a subdivision out of the wilderness!
It was going to cost about fifteen thousand dollars to move two survey monuments east and west along existing property lines! Then of course, I need
to hope that none of the neighboring land owners have an objection to anything changing! California is special!
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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PaulW
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| Quote: Originally posted by chuckie | | The Ogalala aquifer, which provides water for the breadbasket of America, is dropping like a stone . Mt Pop referenced this in an earlier post. A real
disaster in the making. |
=== =
True It is just not fair that in the midwest they have so much water they just dump it into the ocean and in the mountain west we have none and we put
small amount into the ocean. And there is not provision for the midwest to share their water to those in need.
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chuckie
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couple things wrong with that..The Midwest has no oceans, The Midwest has no water to spare.....
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thebajarunner
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I talked today to an El Rosario businessman who confirmed that in the last year the "Major farming operations" have moved into the valley and begun
aggressive well drilling and farming.
It has been of very little benefit to the town. Most of the workers, as we observed in June, are being bused from their home operation in San
Quintin, thus not providing local jobs or spending money in the town.
Just taking the water, shipping the produce north and El Rosario takes the very short end of the stick.
Sad.
Who wants to guess how deep the town domestic wells will need to be drilled in the next couple of years?
Too deep to afford pumps big enough to extract the water is my guess.
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lewmt
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"El Rosario needs to bite the bullet and get the funding to move forward to the present days. Not only is the RO plant expensive, but the recurring
electrical cost is very high. "
I do water treatment for a living & there are incredible opportunities in Baja for this use of water. 2 potential problems though. The vast
quantity of waste water required is placed where? If back into the ocean in enough quantity does that pose a long term problem to salinity or cause
localized issues with salinity at the disposal sites? If into the ground the salinity would create massive issues for groundwater. Keep in mind the
waste water from Reverse Osmosis is a concentrate 100's of times more saline than the sea water being processed.
I've often wondered if the waste couldn't be "mined" somehow for its mineral content....ie placed into salt flats & diked & as natural
evaporation occurs - utilize the mineral deposits for some industrial purposes
As to electrical requirements - it seems to me that Baja has the most abundant renewable resource available and as technology improves could provide
all the electricity necessary for minimal ongoing cost. The 1 thing Baja has in ample supply is sunlight. Why more use of this resource isn't
utilized there is confounding.
[Edited on 8-27-2018 by lewmt]
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weebray
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Interesting thread here and aside from the usual reactionary BS there are some points worth considering. I have always considered solar to be an
underutilized resource here. Something needs to be learned from its past failures though. The local mattress factory here in La Paz used to do a
booming business using cheap cotton from Constitution. I know it makes no sense but, for awhile there was plenty of free water. The free enterprise
days of letting the fishermen manage the fish, the loggers manage the forest or the farmers managing the water are over.
Every beautiful beach in the world needs a few condo towers - NOT.
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David K
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Diamante Del Mar project in El Rosario was going to install a de-sal plant near La Bocana beach for their gold course and residential needs... so it
is doable per engineers. The DDM group got sidetracked and developed in Cabo first as the infrastructure was already there. The word was that El
Rosario would follow, but the property looks deserted now.
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Alm
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Global warming or cooling (whatever it is currently) is of little matter when what you want is rain... cool weather rain or warm weather rain.
Here was the bridge at El Rosario just 8-1/2 years ago (when we were in "Global Warming" according to a "consensus of scientists")...
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With all due respect, this is not your area of expertise, to put it mildly.
Climate is changing. Here in Pacific NW summers used to be cool with occasional rain. Now a new and very typical summer pattern is plenty of rain
first half of the summer, and then hot and dry with forest fires all the way through October. Polar caps are melting, northern forests and tundra are
bone dry, water vapor in the air drifts and makes landfall differently. Floods in Baja - hell yeah. Is Baja still dry? Stupid question, isn't it...
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