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bajaric
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I do not agree with the characterization that the Indigenous people of Baja were "Enslaved" by the missionaries. Closer to the truth is that they
were "Enticed", by pozole, a soup made of corn. The Padres were few in number and could not have forced the conversion of thousands of Indians. They
came willingly. Indeed, the Jesuits were a model of restraint compared to the conquistadores, who did enslave the natives, working them to death in
silver mines and setting dogs upon them to tear them to pieces if they resisted. The Spaniards, the Russians, the Dutch, and the rest were the slave
masters, not the Padres. Had it not been for the disease that decimated their numbers the indigenous people of Baja would have been fine compared to
the fate of their brethren in the rest of the new world. OF course, if the Europeans never arrived they would have continued their existence
unmolested, foraging naked for cactus fruit, but that is a moot point. The European colonization of the new world would have happened one way or
another. Its seeds were planted 2,000 years earlier when civilization began to develop in the middle east and people adopted agriculture and
domesticated the horse, the cow, and the pig, as was explained in the book Guns Germs and Steel.
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JoeJustJoe
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  |
I live near several Indian Nations (formerly known only as Reservations), and they are doing great... Big hotels, water parks, and casinos, casinos,
casinos! Pala, Pauma Valley, Rincon, Valley View (San Pasqual Band of Indians), La Jolla, Pechanga... and many more. |
I can't believe David K. really said this above!
Not only would most California Indian Casinos, like Pachanga, disagree with the myth that the Spanish Missionaries were beneficial to their tribes. (
see quotes below)
But it's well know that despite the all the Indian casinos in the US, most of the Indian tribes without casinos, are living in poverty, because the
tribes are only sharing with their own select tribes, and in fact many tribes have engaged in disenrolled of their tribal members because of pure
greed, and tribal sovereignty, that allows them to skirt many US Federal laws.
All boats are not lifted because of the Indian Casino, although a handful of tribal members do very very well.
______________________
Myth: Interactions between the Spanish Missionaries and Payômkawichum "Western People" were intended as beneficial.
Fact: In 1798 Spanish Missionaries founded the Mission of San Luis Rey de Francia, dramatically altering our tribal life, pressing Pechanga people
into servitude, slavery and imprisonment. The Roman Catholic Church established ranchos that encompassed the native villages and pressed our people
into serving the mission.
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4x4abc
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let me try again:
those Indian Nations are not doing great because they have been treated well by the people who stole most of their land.
They are not doing great because they had great schools and education.
They are not doing great because they enjoyed the same social support the invaders did.
They doing OK at the moment because of white Jewish/Christian investors. The big bucks are still going to the ones who have already too much.
Harald Pietschmann
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motoged
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Hmmmmm....what evidence do you have to back that up????
Casinos tend to do well because folks of various ethnicities/faiths are greedy and want money....so they pour money into machines and gaming
tables....
Are those the people you call investors?
Don't believe everything you think....
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SFandH
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I didn't say that, you did. The names America and "American" are used around the world for the US and its citizens.
I watch the BBC news. Their newscasters frequently use the name America. And, I just heard Iranian lawmakers shout "Death to America" on TV. Perhaps
send them an email explaining you're offended.
The name "United States" is better IMHO.
[Edited on 6-24-2019 by SFandH]
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motoged
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Too bad the page layout has been disrupted somehow...
My point is simply that "America" refers to a large amount of geography......not just the USA.....and I hope that some folks could appreciate that .
Don't believe everything you think....
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SFandH
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I think everybody understands that.
Someone once wrote: "What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
Or, in more modern parlance, "It's not a big effing deal."
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del mar
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | I think everybody understands that.
Someone once wrote: "What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
Or, in more modern parlance, "It's not a big effing deal." |
exactly. google "america meaning" and seems like like most folks correlate it with "united states", say is there a bank of america in canada?
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JoeJustJoe
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Seems like a few here are into American exceptionalism, thinking, when people are the world, think of American, they think of the United States.
Really?
Maybe, they think of the US, when people mention America, because people in the US call themselves Americans. In Mexico, and Canada, the citizens in
those countries call themselves either Mexicans, or Canadians.
I'm sorry the world doesn't revolve around the US or Americans.
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DianaT
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
The book does not make any judgements or support any religion. That is up to the reader. I only wanted to present the facts as best we know them. I do
not tell the reader how they should feel or think.
Data not propaganda. |
Data is to history as location is to geography. They are a very small part of these disciplines---- they are only one possible framework upon which
the historical or geographical story can be built. And even what appears to be facts or data is subject to interpretation and perspective as are
maps.
[Edited on 6-24-2019 by DianaT]
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TMW
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Well I have not been to every country in the world I have only been to France, Germany, Hong Kong, Japan, the Philippines and Saint Thomas Virgin
Islands and my daughter in law is from Panama and every where I've been when you ask them where Americans come from they say the USA. Ask any of the
migrants coming up from Central America where they are going and they will tell you they want to go to America, meaning the USA. I will bet you that
when Karl and Harald came over from Germany to the USA they said they were going to America. Now having said that most people when asked where they
are going while heading north to the USA most likely say the states. When one says the states they mean the USA, not the Mexican states or the
territories of Canada but the USA.
chew on that a while Goat and JJJ.
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ncampion
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Actually it pretty much does.
Living Large in Loreto. Off-grid and happy.
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SFandH
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J-cubed said:
"I'm sorry the world doesn't revolve around the US or Americans."
He says he doesn't like it when people that are citizens of the United States are called Americans..........and then he does it!
[Edited on 6-24-2019 by SFandH]
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4x4abc
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well, looking from the outside - people from around the world see 3 major groups on the North American Continent. Canadians, Americans, Mexicans.
from the inside out - Canadians refer to themselves as Canadians, Americans as Americans, Mexicans as Mexicans.
There are 20 more countries on the North American Continent - none of them see themselves as Americans.
so, where is the confusion?
Harald Pietschmann
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chippy
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | well, looking from the outside - people from around the world see 3 major groups on the North American Continent. Canadians, Americans, Mexicans.
from the inside out - Canadians refer to themselves as Canadians, Americans as Americans, Mexicans as Mexicans.
There are 20 more countries on the North American Continent - none of them see themselves as Americans.
so, where is the confusion?
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20 more countries on the no american cont? Due tell. Oh I see you are including about 16 Islands? I don´t considered that continent.
[Edited on 6-24-2019 by chippy]
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4x4abc
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you can consider anything you want
make your own world map
fact is the North American Continent has 23 countries
https://www.countries-ofthe-world.com/countries-of-north-ame...
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
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Yes, and the United States of America was the first colony to become an independent nation. We made America part of our name first and when the world
sees the stars and stripes they call it the American flag.
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chippy
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Whatever you want to think but
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_United_States
I dont see any islands.
Since when is an island a continent? Riddle me this.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/continent
[Edited on 6-25-2019 by chippy]
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Bajazly
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Australia.
Believing is religion - Knowing is science
Harald Pietschmann
"Get off the beaten path and memories, friends and new techniques are developed"
Bajazly, August 2019
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SFandH
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Antarctica
And US citizens who were born in Antarctica are Antarctic-Americans. It's a small group.
[Edited on 6-25-2019 by SFandH]
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