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bajatrailrider
Super Nomad
Posts: 2432
Registered: 1-24-2015
Location: Mexico
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Mood: Happy
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The only thing careless clueless are anything you write. Hiking in states worthless your scared in Baja . Great we dont need stupid people like you
here. Thanks to ranchers giving me keys to gates so I dont need look at stupid . People like you you know nothing about Baja. Just garbage writer
looked in room too scared to come out.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3507
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  | If you like public lands for hiking and exploring, the usa and canada are the place to be. Mexico has virtually no public lands so gates are what you
got to deal with.
gringos go to mexico to shred private lands, because blm and forest service dont allow that in usa, and ejidos in baja are so sparsely populated they
often cant stop gringos… but things are changing, narcos are doing rural pot farming, and ranchers finally are getting fed up with
careless/destructive offroaders, so closing roads.
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X2
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4289
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | If you like public lands for hiking and exploring, the usa and canada are the place to be. Mexico has virtually no public lands so gates are what you
got to deal with.
gringos go to mexico to shred private lands, because blm and forest service dont allow that in usa, and ejidos in baja are so sparsely populated they
often cant stop gringos… but things are changing, narcos are doing rural pot farming, and ranchers finally are getting fed up with
careless/destructive offroaders, so closing roads.
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it's a little more complicated
but in general, you are right on
Harald Pietschmann
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geoffff
Senior Nomad
Posts: 674
Registered: 1-15-2009
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | | Quote: Originally posted by Lee | just last week I ignored a gate (on foot) and was escorted out by ranchers armed with rifles
we may have overstayed our welcome
. Harald's words.
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in this case the road was in excellent condition
with recent tire tracks
meaning they lied to me
meaning they did not want me to go
I will not speculate on their motivation
who knows what they are growing out there (lotsa water)
no word of no trespassing or private property
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Not a gate ... but a few years back I posted (& later retracted) a story about encountering a big stump randomly blocking the road. I dragged it
off the road, and later came to understand why it had been put there: The road ended at a canyon with a big grow op in it. I figure they wanted to
know if they were getting any visitors.
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geoffff
Senior Nomad
Posts: 674
Registered: 1-15-2009
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy | | Quote: Originally posted by geoffff | This was a disappointing gate I encountered in 2019, when I was hoping to drive the San Cristobal / Puerto Nuevo loop on the Vizcaino (27.4068,
-114.4749):
[Edited on 3-26-2022 by geoffff] |
That's a simple fix. The Vigilancia will happily open the gate for you. There is no gate from the north. Awesome road that we travel often. There
is also an arroyo just south that you can take to the beach. Via the beach you can connect to the road again. |
Thank you Bajaboy for the tip! I will do one of those two things the next time I pass through that area.
Do you have any idea WHY the gate is there? To prevent fishing poachers from leaving the back way? I know there is a lot of worry about abalone
poaching on the Vizcaino peninsula
-- Geoff
[Edited on 3-27-2022 by geoffff]
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4289
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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what I have learned in many years of driving Baja - a rock at the beginning of a road indicates a dead end. Could be a mile or 10. Rocks are rarely
too big to pass over
Harald Pietschmann
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6026
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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Mood: Retireded
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| Quote: Originally posted by geoffff | | Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy | | Quote: Originally posted by geoffff | This was a disappointing gate I encountered in 2019, when I was hoping to drive the San Cristobal / Puerto Nuevo loop on the Vizcaino (27.4068,
-114.4749):
[Edited on 3-26-2022 by geoffff] |
That's a simple fix. The Vigilancia will happily open the gate for you. There is no gate from the north. Awesome road that we travel often. There
is also an arroyo just south that you can take to the beach. Via the beach you can connect to the road again. |
Thank you Bajaboy for the tip! I will do one of those two things the next time I pass through that area.
Do you have any idea WHY the gate is there? To prevent fishing poachers from leaving the back way? I know there is a lot of worry about abalone
poaching on the Vizcaino peninsula
-- Geoff
[Edited on 3-27-2022 by geoffff] |
For what it is worth, I drove those roads in November of 2021, and did not encounter any closed gates.
The icing on the cake was that every road I drove on the peninsula had been freshly graded. It was so recent, that the grader tire tracks were still
visible!
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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pacificobob
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 4-23-2006
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | If you like public lands for hiking and exploring, the usa and canada are the place to be. Mexico has virtually no public lands so gates are what you
got to deal with.
gringos go to mexico to shred private lands, because blm and forest service dont allow that in usa, and ejidos in baja are so sparsely populated they
often cant stop gringos… but things are changing, narcos are doing rural pot farming, and ranchers finally are getting fed up with
careless/destructive offroaders, so closing roads.
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X2
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X3
[Edited on 3-28-2022 by pacificobob]
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: Originally posted by geoffff | | Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy | | Quote: Originally posted by geoffff | This was a disappointing gate I encountered in 2019, when I was hoping to drive the San Cristobal / Puerto Nuevo loop on the Vizcaino (27.4068,
-114.4749):
[Edited on 3-26-2022 by geoffff] |
That's a simple fix. The Vigilancia will happily open the gate for you. There is no gate from the north. Awesome road that we travel often. There
is also an arroyo just south that you can take to the beach. Via the beach you can connect to the road again. |
Thank you Bajaboy for the tip! I will do one of those two things the next time I pass through that area.
Do you have any idea WHY the gate is there? To prevent fishing poachers from leaving the back way? I know there is a lot of worry about abalone
poaching on the Vizcaino peninsula
-- Geoff
[Edited on 3-27-2022 by geoffff] |
Yes, the gate to the south is definitely there to prevent poachers. We love to camp at Tordillo, the beach just to the west, and the vigilancia
always come out to say hi. If you are driving south on the road, there is a vigilancia outpost about a mile or two before the gate. Stop there and
and ask if they can open it for you. We always offer some pesos for gas. The people out there are super welcoming as long as they know you are good
people.
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geoffff
Senior Nomad
Posts: 674
Registered: 1-15-2009
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Harald, that rock thing! Dead end. I will start looking for it!
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Jinete Viejo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 88
Registered: 1-23-2017
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geoffff, the gates are to stop lobster poachers during the off season. I've traveled that road in February and the gates were unlocked.
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azucena
Nomad
Posts: 193
Registered: 8-25-2012
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob | | Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | If you like public lands for hiking and exploring, the usa and canada are the place to be. Mexico has virtually no public lands so gates are what you
got to deal with.
gringos go to mexico to shred private lands, because blm and forest service dont allow that in usa, and ejidos in baja are so sparsely populated they
often cant stop gringos… but things are changing, narcos are doing rural pot farming, and ranchers finally are getting fed up with
careless/destructive offroaders, so closing roads.
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X2
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X3
[Edited on 3-28-2022 by pacificobob] |
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: Originally posted by Maderita | | Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | | Quote: Originally posted by Lee | A gate NOB means the same as a gate SOB. It means private property and owner wants to keep people out. Whether it's legal or not has no bearing.
Maybe people need to see a sign that reads KEEP THE F' OUT!
If you don't know the owner or have permission to open the gate, it's called trespassing. That has to be a difficult concern for some gringoes.
Am I missing something? |
yes, you are missing something
gates in Baja have several different functions
seasoned Baja travelers know that well |
4x4abc has it correct. Most of BC and BCS is ejido land. Ejidatarios have use of their share of the communal land. Much of it is rugged wilderness.
Also open-range, with cattle roaming for miles to get a half-full stomach. Most of the gates we are talking about are on rural dirt roads, and for the
purpose of containing livestock. Some have steel gates with padlocks. Further from civilization, most gates are constructed of barbed wire strung
across sticks, with a typical bailing wire loop closure, and no lock.
Unless there is a sign stating not to pass, my protocol is: open the gate, close the gate behind and properly tension, proceed slowly if there are
livestock. If the road leads directly to a ranch house, 15 kph and no dust. Stop and ask permission to pass after introducing yourself,
politely stating your purpose, and perhaps offering a cold beer or soda. The ranchers know the area and may tell you about interesting places to see,
as well as, what to avoid - problem places, narcos, washouts, etc.
Of course, this advice does not apply to urban areas, private driveways, and gates obviously meant to protect dwellings/businesses/private property.
If you are interested in how much of the peninsula is covered by ejido land, take a look at this map. Ejidos are shaded in blue.
https://databasin.org/maps/new/#datasets=a5e789aa10fb4efbbd8...
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There's a lot more to this story and the key point is to understand who these people are that are putting up those locked gates? It’s easy to blame
the cartels but it is highly unlikely that more than 1% of them are directly connected to cartel activity. And even 1% is probably a high number.
Everybody here has heard the advice to run away from buying ejido land as it’s nearly impossible for an ejidatario to obtain his/her “Dominio
Pleno” for their parcel in the ejido, as it required a unanimous vote by ALL ejido members - not just those present in any given meeting. At one
point in time, that was probably sound advice as it was difficult if not impossible to get a 100% vote on anything without some serious negotiating
and usually money changing hands. And quite often there are a LOT of hands in an ejido.
That ejido map you linked to is interesting to look at but really does not give an accurate portrayal of reality today, except to underscore their
political clout..
For the last few decades they have been using that political clout, slowly pushing through a series of legal changes to the laws governing ejidos,
their agrarian rights and more specifically – giving ejido leadership the ability to get around some of those 100% vote requirements. Those changes
are now facilitating the transition of legal control over vast amounts of land down here from ejido management to an ejidatario’s private control.
It’s hard to find an ejido today that isn’t currently dividing up and handing out certificates of Dominio Pleno to their ejido members. Do ejido
politics come into play? Of course they do but it's in the best interests of the majority of the members to transition the control of the land. And
they are doing just that.
The reason that map you linked to still shows all that land as ejido is because most of these new land owners are happy to just sit on their
certificates of Dominio Pleno. Putting off registering the Dominio Pleno at the registrar’s office means that any taxes they pay remain at little to
none. Seriously. They would of course need to record it in the event of a looming sale of the land and in most cases, that is exactly what they do.
Ejido land that been used for farming / cattle operations will likely continue that way for awhile and the incentive may not be there just yet to
privatize.
But like it or not, a large portion of that ejido today is moving to private control and many of those new locked gates are coming from these new
landowners. You’re foolish to believe that they don’t mind you crossing their property in finding a way around that locked gate and especially if
they catch you cutting one of their padlocks. Some of them charge fees to cross and it's their right. I have had some tourists tell me stories of how
they were "ripped off", paying 10 bucks to pass through a locked gate that used to be open, but that's just the new reality.
Times are changing and you'd better get used to it. Or consider wearing body armor.
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geoffff
Senior Nomad
Posts: 674
Registered: 1-15-2009
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Thank you BajaGringo for this window into why Baja land is the way it is, and how it is changing.
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pacificobob
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 4-23-2006
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I am often amused by mention of cartel activity in baja.
Usually cited by gringos who have zero experience in the parts of Mexico where it conspicuously exists. I'd be willing to bet there is more cartel
activity in alta California
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DouglasP
Nomad
Posts: 321
Registered: 6-23-2018
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Mood: Goat hunter.
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26.904796, -112.402351
Locked metal gate on a road across the peninsula starting by the Guadalupe mission ruins west of Mulege.
Been looking for a way across for awhile now. This looked promising, until the gate!
Harald, I would like access to your data base for sure.
I like beer, better than most people.
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4289
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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the gate is visible on Google Earth
Harald Pietschmann
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4289
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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| Quote: Originally posted by DouglasP | 26.904796, -112.402351
Locked metal gate on a road across the peninsula starting by the Guadalupe mission ruins west of Mulege.
Been looking for a way across for awhile now. This looked promising, until the gate!
Harald, I would like access to your data base for sure. |
I am looking for a way to share information in a way that is can't be copied.
Harald Pietschmann
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4289
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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| Quote: Originally posted by lencho |
Kind of a oxymarooon, isn't that? Seems like if you present it in a format that's actually useful to others, that would make it vulnerable
to copying. 
How would that work?
Edit: "Oxymaroon"? Fer crissakes-- this sensoring software sometimes gets in the way of normal communications. 
[Edited on 3-29-2022 by lencho] |
I so appreciate that you understand my pain
Harald Pietschmann
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | | Quote: Originally posted by lencho |
Kind of a oxymarooon, isn't that? Seems like if you present it in a format that's actually useful to others, that would make it vulnerable
to copying.
How would that work?
Edit: "Oxymaroon"? Fer crissakes-- this sensoring software sometimes gets in the way of normal communications.
[Edited on 3-29-2022 by lencho] |
I so appreciate that you understand my pain
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What software are using to create your database? I created a lot of databases over the years using Access and they have some pretty good tools that
will probably make your tables as copy-proof as possible on a shared database.
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