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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6111
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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He is not from Mexico, but....
Skipjack, you just described my brother-in-law in a way that I would struggle to put into words. I am also sure that he would not recognize himself
if he read your post.
Edit; I was talking about the agreeability part, not the crude ignoramus part!
[Edited on 3-4-2023 by AKgringo]
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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Marc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2802
Registered: 5-15-2010
Location: San Francisco & Palm Springs
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Mood: Waiting
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Me 3. He's attacked me for being racist.
Exercise regularly. Eat sensibly. Die anyway.
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Marty Mateo
Nomad
Posts: 110
Registered: 12-7-2019
Location: Vanisle Sur
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Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe  | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
I try to ignore a$$hat gringos that make blanket statements that “Mexicans are so undependable.” Such people are ignoramuses.
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No, it's you that's an ignoramus. And a crude one at that.
If you lived in Mexico rather than pontificate from whichever rathole you live in then you would know what I'm talking about. In fact, if you read the
book you would know to shut your yap. Calling someone a racist because he recognizes a culture that is different than your is racist itself because it
means that you judge others by your own culture and can't accept differences. So you're the racist because you measure others by your own measuring
stick.
Mexicans are very dependable in business arrangements. That is true. But in personal interactions they are liberal with commitments. When a Mexican
party is scheduled to start at 7pm guests start to arrive at 8:30.
Mexicans prioritize agreeability over veracity. They will make commitments they don't intend to commit to because they wish to make you happy. The
current moment is all important. The future is not. Saying no ruins the current interaction. To a Mexican saying yes is preferrable and later simply
not act on the commitment. I have seen this too many times to doubt this about their culture. Yes, it's lying but Mexicans don't see it as a big deal.
As I stated earlier, all arrangements are propositions that may or may not be kept depending on circumstances. What is more surprising is that often
when a simple phone call could be made to notify the person they will not show up it does not come. This is acceptable because they act that way with
one another and understand that just as they may not keep a commitment, so they do not expect a firm commitment from others. I am talking about
commitments for engagements. Hell, I have workers who complete half of a project and then simply don't show up to finish it because the work is not to
their liking. I have had agreements to meet with someone to go somewhere and left waiting with a no show. More than once. Then on the next encounter
nothing is mentioned.
So Goat, next time before running your mouth off know what you're talking about because you're big on name calling and accusations but you really
don't know much about life down here. Basically, you're an ignorant man. |
So your anecdotal experiences makes you feel you can paint the entire Mexican population as one homogeneous group , that’s racism at its core.
Thanks for confirming.
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surabi
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6169
Registered: 5-6-2016
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I concur. Skipjack's response does himself no favors.
It's one thing to discuss cultural differences- to pretend that they don't exist is ridiculous. To be aware of them promotes understanding.
But saying "Mexicans are..." and "Mexicans do this..." or Mexicans think..." is discriminatory (I wouldn't label it racist, because people do this
about many demographics that may in fact be of their own race, just of another nationality, religion, sexual orientation, or political persuation).
Noting that "many Mexicans..." or "Mexicans tend to..." or "if a Mexican does this it's probably because..." is quite different from painting everyone
of a certain culture with the same brush, as if they all act and think alike.
Also, in this age of mass media, social media, and increased international travel, many long-standing cultural norms tend to evolve and change when
people, no matter where they are from, learn that what is normal behavior to them is not normal in the rest of the world. If you never leave the area
where you were born and raised and have little exposure to the world outside of it, your cultural norms are practiced and accepted by all in your
world. With exposure to outside influence, knowledge, meeting and interacting with people from other cultures, those accepted cultural norms tend to
undergo metamorphisis.
I have lived in Mexico for 20 years and haven't noticed any difference in the dependability of Mexicans according to whether they are doing business
or it's a social interaction. Some are reliable and some aren't. There are reliable and unreliable people in every culture.
This doesn't mean that Mexico as a culture doesn't have some different values than other cultures, like preferring to say yes so as to not to
disappoint in the moment, regardless of whether they follow through accordingly. The point is that humans are individuals, and not all Mexicans do
that, so saying that they do, or that they all value agreeability in the moment over commitment simply isn't true.
[Edited on 3-4-2023 by surabi]
[Edited on 3-4-2023 by surabi]
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surabi
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6169
Registered: 5-6-2016
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Very true. Almost everyone has prejudices that they may or may not be consciously aware of. To adamantly claim that we don't means we aren't even
willing to entertain the possibility.
When I hear people claim they "don't see color" when dealing with people of another race, I am suspicious. You would have to be legally blind not to
notice that their skin is a different color from yours. It's like saying that a chihuahua and an Alaskan husky look the same to you. That you might
love all dogs is different than saying you don't see any difference between them.
And even if another person's race, nationality, or sexual orientation doesn't affect us viewing them as equals who we could easily become friends
with, it doesn't mean we don't have anything to learn about being sensitive to what might be offensive to them.
My daughter has a Chinese/Canadian friend she has been close friends with since high school. They have gone travelling together, attended events
together, even lived at each other's homes when their own were undergoing renovations. One day my daughter was sitting with her friend and went on a
bit of a rant about Chinese buying up big houses in Vancouver. As soon as the words were out of her mouth, she was horrified at herself and said,
"OMG, Mai Ling, I'm so sorry, that was inexcusable of me."
It was precisely because she never thinks about her friend in terms of race that she didn't consider how her words might be taken before she said
them.
Luckily her friend wasn't offended, or at least said she wasn't- she knew that it wasn't because my daughter was racist against Asians or Chinese- it
was about housing being taken off the market for locals, only to sit there empty, as an investment, not a racial slur. But my daughter could have just
ranted about viable housing being taken off the market without mentioning the fact that it was mostly Chinese doing this, because another person of
Chinese extraction easily could have found it insulting.
[Edited on 3-5-2023 by surabi]
[Edited on 3-5-2023 by surabi]
[Edited on 3-5-2023 by surabi]
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Marty Mateo
Nomad
Posts: 110
Registered: 12-7-2019
Location: Vanisle Sur
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“I would be impressed to find anyone on this forum who is not racist to some degree or other.  “
I would agree that most are guilty doing or saying something racist sometimes but the difference is being able to acknowledged it and learn from it.
As a white male with an upper level income,I acknowledge I have a privileged place in the world and feel I try to learn and evolve. I don’t have a
guilt complex for past events by I do acknowledge the past and present injustices and what effects it has on the world today
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19139
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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Woke!
“Por el bien de todos, primero los pobres.”
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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Marc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2802
Registered: 5-15-2010
Location: San Francisco & Palm Springs
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | | Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | one part made me cringe though
"you can't build roads with concrete in the jungle, because it is too wet for the cement to dry"
cement does not dry - it hardens/cures
it is a chemical process (28 days)
this process will even happen under water |
I didn't know that. Huge mistake in the video.
I spent my childhood wetting down fresh poured cement for my dad's building projects. He explained to me the process. Even so, I have to catch myself
nowadays not to use dry time instead of cure time. Just had a driveway poured here in Palm Springs.
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[Edited on 3-17-2023 by Marc]
Exercise regularly. Eat sensibly. Die anyway.
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surabi
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6169
Registered: 5-6-2016
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"I spent my childhood wetting down fresh poured cement for my dad's building projects."
Had a friend who spent his youth carrying buckets of cement and concrete blocks up ladders for his mason father. Swore he'd never do physical labor
again, and he didn't- became a clothing designer.
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Salsa
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Posts: 176
Registered: 2-4-2003
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Not everyone's definition of racist is the same.
Just because you are offended does not make me wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!
Don
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JDCanuck
Super Nomad
Posts: 1991
Registered: 2-22-2020
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| Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
I try to ignore a$$hat gringos that make blanket statements that “Mexicans are so undependable.” Such people are ignoramuses.
|
No, it's you that's an ignoramus. And a crude one at that.
If you lived in Mexico rather than pontificate from whichever rathole you live in then you would know what I'm talking about. In fact, if you read the
book you would know to shut your yap. Calling someone a racist because he recognizes a culture that is different than your is racist itself because it
means that you judge others by your own culture and can't accept differences. So you're the racist because you measure others by your own measuring
stick.
Mexicans are very dependable in business arrangements. That is true. But in personal interactions they are liberal with commitments. When a Mexican
party is scheduled to start at 7pm guests start to arrive at 8:30.
Mexicans prioritize agreeability over veracity. They will make commitments they don't intend to commit to because they wish to make you happy. The
current moment is all important. The future is not. Saying no ruins the current interaction. To a Mexican saying yes is preferrable and later simply
not act on the commitment. I have seen this too many times to doubt this about their culture. Yes, it's lying but Mexicans don't see it as a big deal.
As I stated earlier, all arrangements are propositions that may or may not be kept depending on circumstances. What is more surprising is that often
when a simple phone call could be made to notify the person they will not show up it does not come. This is acceptable because they act that way with
one another and understand that just as they may not keep a commitment, so they do not expect a firm commitment from others. I am talking about
commitments for engagements. Hell, I have workers who complete half of a project and then simply don't show up to finish it because the work is not to
their liking. I have had agreements to meet with someone to go somewhere and left waiting with a no show. More than once. Then on the next encounter
nothing is mentioned.
So Goat, next time before running your mouth off know what you're talking about because you're big on name calling and accusations but you really
don't know much about life down here. Basically, you're an ignorant man. |
Pretty much exactly our experience as well. This is Mexico, not a country where a verbal commitment is a bond like we are used to.
Pays to plan your goals accordingly. Even signed contractual agreements are not to be relied upon.
My family and friends who worked in other cultures freely admit this was an issue they quickly learned did not fly in other cultures, and learned to
adapt quickly or lose a lot of work.
[Edited on 5-6-2023 by JDCanuck]
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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1627
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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MAÑANA... The busiest day in Mexico! 
In Memory of E-57
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bajarickster
Junior Nomad
Posts: 33
Registered: 8-29-2007
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understanding Mexico
Thanks Harald. i just watched and informative
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