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surabi
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Haven't seen any name calling. Pointing out the fallacy of others' notions isn't name calling.
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JDCanuck
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Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  | Suppose you drive your small SUV EV 250 miles down Baja and then stop to fill up with electrons at your hotel's charger. I know there are variables
involved, but on average, how long will you be plugged into the charger juicing up?
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Heres a simple calculation method to arrive at an answer at various rated chargers. A typical EV gets 3.5 miles/kwh in hiway driving(118 MPGe). If you
drive 250 miles you will need to recharge with about 72 kwh of power. With a J1772 level 2 charger that is NOT shared it will take 12 hours to
recharge at 6 kw, twice that if its shared and the wattage is cut in half as a result. With 12 amp level 1 charging at 120v it would take 50 hours.
With an 18kw NACS (Tesla) charger commonly in La Paz it will take 4 hours. A CHAdeMO DC charger (Nissan Leafs) at 50kw would take 1 1/2 hours if you
can find one. Hope this helps somewhat. It should be noted that Tesla superchargers now have wattages all the way up to 250 kw in the US, but I
haven't seen any similar ones in Baja.
So, assuming you are charging at Tesla 18kw chargers most commonly listed in southern Baja at present, you would charge for 4 hours for each 4 hours
driven at 60 mph avg speed (240miles). If you could only find level 2 chargers, you would charge for 12 hours for each 4 hours driven.
[Edited on 6-6-2024 by JDCanuck]
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JohnJohn
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Good on you, trying to correct the lies and ignorance (understandable) being spread on BEV's. Cross-country USA trips have been common over a decade
now. A Tesla can make over 300 mi before needing a charge, that would be a fair sized town anyplace on earth. Reason I said understandable is, no one
has had to think about these things.
| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo | | Quote: Originally posted by JZ | Today EV's are good for driving around town. If you want to go further, get gas or a hybrid.
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That is incorrect. I have over 65K miles on my car and have driven it all over the Western US. Some owners have over 200K on their BEV's and have
driven them all over the US and Canada. You obviously don't own a BEV, otherwise you would NOT be making such an uninformed remark. Why are you even
on this thread with no experience in the subject topic and nothing of value to add? But you are welcome to participate and continue to stay on topic,
sort of, and prove to the world that you are ignorant on this subject. |
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JohnJohn
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Hope you get to see the new Caterpillar heavy duty construction equipment, being operated on batteries.
| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | | It is also really easy to carry extra fuel for extended trips with a gas powered vehicle. Not practical to carry spare batteries for an EV.
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Less than 1% of vehicle buyers in USA and EU carry extra fuel to camp in the boondocks.
Detroit focus is on cars for the larger market, not the fringe percentage that boondocks..
There will always be a small market for remote workers and boondockers, but that small market share will not stop the overall shift of primary market
to electric.
There will continue to be some market for ICE vehicles for remote workers and boondockers, but the bread and butter market for detroit is shifting
electric.
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I think you are heavily underestimating the market for ICE outside of city centers. Construction and Farming are huge and the electric isnt there.
But for Baja, electric is waaaayyy off on the horizon. |
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by JohnJohn | Hope you get to see the new Caterpillar heavy duty construction equipment, being operated on batteries.
| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | | It is also really easy to carry extra fuel for extended trips with a gas powered vehicle. Not practical to carry spare batteries for an EV.
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Less than 1% of vehicle buyers in USA and EU carry extra fuel to camp in the boondocks.
Detroit focus is on cars for the larger market, not the fringe percentage that boondocks..
There will always be a small market for remote workers and boondockers, but that small market share will not stop the overall shift of primary market
to electric.
There will continue to be some market for ICE vehicles for remote workers and boondockers, but the bread and butter market for detroit is shifting
electric.
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I think you are heavily underestimating the market for ICE outside of city centers. Construction and Farming are huge and the electric isnt there.
But for Baja, electric is waaaayyy off on the horizon. |
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Seen it. There is a reason diesel is still king. Time is money.
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JohnJohn
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which propulsion unit would make you nervouser about maint? Sorry, I don't have an image of the Tundra engine which had 100K units recalled, but I'm
sure any Baja mech could deal with one.
| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
What me worry?
I used to drive my saab in baja, and i was pretty sure there was no saab parts or mechanics in baja.
Life is full of risks, dont let risk scare you! |
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by JohnJohn | | which propulsion unit would make you nervouser about maint? Sorry, I don't have an image of the Tundra engine which had 100K units recalled, but I'm
sure any Baja mech could deal with one. |
 
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pacificobob
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The engine photo speaks volumes .
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JDCanuck
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I have never seen a definitive cost to charge 10kwh at a Tesla Supercharger in the US under the new shared agreement for other vehicles. This would
provide about 35 miles range. In Aussieland it appears to be 6.00 per 10kwh if you were charging other than a Tesla at their chargers, the same as we
now pay here at the 100kw chargers. Is it similar in the US , lower cost or higher?
[Edited on 6-7-2024 by JDCanuck]
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | I have never seen a definitive cost to charge 10kwh at a Tesla Supercharger in the US under the new shared agreement for other vehicles. This would
provide about 35 miles range. In Aussieland it appears to be 6.00 per 10kwh if you were charging other than a Tesla at their chargers, the same as we
now pay here at the 100kw chargers. Is it similar in the US , lower cost or higher? |
I already answered your question previously on this thread!
Here, in the USA, it will vary depending on:
1. your "state of charge" (the amount of electrons left in your batteries - the cost is lower if you have a low state of charge, the cost will be
higher if you have a high state of charge.
2. It will depend on the cost charged by the local electric utility for providing that electricity. I have no idea what electric rates are in Canada,
although my Canadian friends tell me it is much lower than in the USA.
Tesla is trying to get around this variable cost confusion by installing solar panels to power their Supercharger system.
In my personal case, it costs me under USD $12 to charge my car from 30% to 80% at a Tesla Supercharger in Southern California (which I rarely use
because I charge at home at night at a much lower cost per kWh. At night, under a TOU plan, I pay under 12 cents per kWh....which is relatively high
compared to some other States.)
If you want to keep up with this thread, I recommend you read ALL the previous posts.
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JDCanuck
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Yes, i read the other posts. I was asking what Tesla chargers charge other vehicle manufacturers to use Tesla Superchargers to charge say...a
Mitsubishi under the new shared agreement. All I could find was an Australian post stating they charged non Tesla owners at twice the rate for a Tesla
vehicle, or .60 AUD per kwh.
Yes, at home I pay USD .12 per kwh same as your lower overnite rate, this jumps to .45 USD per kwh at 100kw chargers on the road, or almost 4 times
the cost for longer trips per mile travelled. This approximates the cost Tesla shows at their superchargers on their website. At this rate it would
cost about 4.50 USD to travel 35 miles. If I charge at home from my 50 Amp 240 v wall plug, that cost drops to 1.20 USD for each 35 miles
So...50% of your Tesla storage costs 12.00 USD to charge. Can I guess that that is about 40Kwh power? So the cost per 10kwh (35 miles) would be 3.00
USD and this is at a standard TESLA rate, and not the higher rate charged to owners of other makes charging at a Tesla shared charger?
I apologize for thinking Tesla charged a standard rate for Tesla owners and it seems this is not the case, as they use a very complicated time/power
algorithm and charge even higher penalty fees past 80% charge so non Tesla owners will also have a very hard time pre-determining their costs to drive
longer distances.
[Edited on 6-7-2024 by JDCanuck]
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo | I have no idea what electric rates are in Canada, although my Canadian friends tell me it is much lower than in the USA.
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It varies by province, largely depending on the costs involved in how each province generates electricity. (Hydro-electric, natural gas, etc.)
As far as I'm aware, Quebec has the cheapest rates, and Northwest Territories the highest.
[Edited on 6-7-2024 by surabi]
[Edited on 6-7-2024 by surabi]
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oxxo
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I have no idea what Tesla charges to other mfg's with a NACS receptacle, a Tesla account secured with a credit card, and since the program is still
being implemented. This is a question best directed to Tesla on their website. This is way off topic to this thread.
| Quote: | | So...50% of your Tesla storage costs 12.00 USD to charge. Can I guess that that is about 40Kwh power? |
When I charge at a Supercharger, which is rarely, I select only the 250 kWh chargers to charge (I am given a choice of Supercharges in my general area
on my U.I.). In a pinch, I have used the 150 kWh chargers too. HOWEVER, those figures are at an optimum maximum rate when perhaps your BEV is only
10% state of charge and starts to slow down as your state of charge increases on the Supercharger. As you get to around 80% state of charge the rate
of charge slows waaaaay down. So if you want to charge from 80 t0 100%, you are going to pay ALOT for those electrons.
At home, my Level 2 system (50 A, 240V), which is typical for home systems, is about 32 kWh MAXIMUM. I usually don't plug into my home charger until I
get down to around 20%. I then charge my car to 70% and that 50% increase (20 > 70) usually lasts me a week or more depending on how much I drive
(I'm retired), before I plug in again at home. As I post this, It has been over a week since I have charged my car at home or anywhere. Tomorrow,
Friday night, I will charge my car at home to 100% since I will be visiting my daughter this weekend and that charge will be more than enough for my
two-way trip.
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Lee
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Just asking for trouble, folks!
Consumer Report, Fortune, Car & Driver all say the same thing. Informed consumers should steer clear of EV/PHEV's until the bugs have been
worked out. I know I'll never buy one. Don't say I didn't warn ya.
''Electric vehicles have nearly 80% more problems and are generally less reliable than cars propelled by conventional internal combustion engines,
according to a new report from Consumer Reports.
Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV) have an even worse scorecard, with an average of almost 150% more problems, the consumer group found. By
contrast, ordinary hybrid cars are a "bright spot," with about a quarter fewer problems than gas-powered cars, the analysis found.''
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/electric-vehicles-consumer-repo...
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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oxxo
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OFF TOPIC posts will not be tolerated! Do not respond to the post above that is factually inaccurate. If the poster wants to talk about BEV's in
general, he should start a new topic. This thread is about BEV use in Baja California.
Thank you.
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JDCanuck
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Other than that one Tesla Supercharger in Ensenada, I see no other Tesla destination chargers in all of Baja other than the NACS ones listed on
Plugshare, so its entirely applicable to Baja BEV's what they would be costing and how long they would take to recharge from a 250 mile segment,
wouldn't you say? The Level 2 chargers would be usable if you stay overnite at one of the Hotels that provide it for free and they are available and
working when you get there. A person would want to check that out in advance of driving there as the backup level one on any 120v is more of a very
long time multi day trickle charge. We know Hotel One in La Paz is free if you stay there, but its been reported they have turned people down who
didn't stay overnite.
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JDCanuck
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In addition, I would guess driving a BEV down Baja would require a significant AC load. It would be great to hear from someone who drove down through
Mexicali, recharged at the San Felipe Marine hotel, again at Guerrero Negro Terrasal, Loreto, La Paz, and finally Cabo. If each of those legs is
actually doable with AC running and still having 15-20% left in reserve when arriving and also how long they had to wait to get going again. The
extremely bad potholes and other rough road situations would be yet another consideration when dealing with modern vehicles with their myriad of
electrical options, especially high voltage connectors and how they will stand up under Baja road conditions with extended use.
[Edited on 6-7-2024 by JDCanuck]
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo | OFF TOPIC posts will not be tolerated! Do not respond to the post above that is factually inaccurate. If the poster wants to talk about BEV's in
general, he should start a new topic. This thread is about BEV use in Baja California.
Thank you. |
? What exactly was not "tolerated"?
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oxxo
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I never did respond to @DavidK's post, so here's the situation, in my opinion
| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Being this is a Baja forum, can we get more feedback on an EV on the peninsula's backcountry, ie. not the border cities, Ensenada, or Los Cabos.
Freedom to go and explore and enjoy seems hugely limited. |
Yes, I agree with you at this point in BEV development. David, you are part of a fringe element (maybe 1% of all drivers) that the BEV industry has
not addressed yet. However, BEV,s are currently under development, pickups with 600 mile range and all kinds of "off the grid" toys for people with
your desires. In my opinion, they are still about 5 years down the road yet.
As far as BEV's in Baja California, the trip can be made by intrepid and determined travelers at a "relaxed pace" in 4 days from the California
border to the Los Cabos. But right now, with only one Supercharger in Baja California, in Ensenada, it is not possible to do that trip in two days.
This possibility will happen in 3 to 5 years, IN MY OPINION. in the meantime, personally, my BEV is not capable of doing that trip in 2 days and I am
not interested in doing that trip in 4 days.
| Quote: | | I see it as great for daily commuting that is under 250 miles or whatever the 80% range is. |
I disagree with you there. BEV's have been traversing the length and breath of the USA and Canada for years now. A BEV pickup(s) would be perfect
for your personal commercial business in San Diego. The savings on "fuel" and maintenance alone will mean additional money in your pocket! If you do
the math, you will see what I mean.
Safe travels amigo, and be prepared for the bad guys you might meet in the wild lands of Baja California!
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | so its entirely applicable to Baja BEV's what they would be costing and how long they would take to recharge from a 250 mile segment, wouldn't you
say? |
As far as I know, the only Level 3 charger in Baja California is the Supercharger in Ensenada. All the others listed on PlugShare are Level 2,
destination chargers, at various hotels, up and down Hwy 1 which would require an approximately 8 hour charge to 100%...depending on your state of
charge arriving at that destination. I have no idea what the CFE cost of electricity is at these various destination chargers.
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