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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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believe me your opinion will change after you have been assaulted and robed a couple times.
I used to feel the same way as you , and still do to some extent.
a person should not be armed with anything unless they are properly trained and intend to use it. a very sierras mistake is to think that a gun or
pepper spray or anything is going to scare them off. don't show you have it until you use it. if you pull it out and point it at them and start
yelling at them like they do in the movies you are more than likely to get shot with your own weapon.
if you don't think you can pull the trigger or push the button then you are better to fall on the ground , roll up in to a ball and close your eyes.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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I've witnessed pepper spray just peeing someone off. Bring a ball batt...and a ball & glove. 
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good if fishing
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Bear Spray
Bears have found the solution to Bear Spray
[Edited on 2-26-2006 by turtleandtoad]
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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oladulce
Super Nomad
Posts: 1625
Registered: 5-30-2005
Location: bcs
Member Is Offline
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In 2003, a couple of guys we know got a flat on the North road between San Ignacio and San Juanico. While they were changing the tire, 2 guys rode up
on tricked-out (very out of place) ATV's and pointed guns at them and took their money. They described the guys as very mean, bad dudes and their
instincts told them not to mess with them so they handed over everything right away. The guys held the guns to their heads and continued to yell and
taunt them for another hour "for fun". This event prompted us to finally take our protection seriously.
It's just my husband and I in our camper and we spend a lot of time in remote places and beaches. Much of the time it's the warm season and
frequently, the peak of summer, and we're usually the only dummies on the beach. We don't have AC in the camper and there's no way we could sleep
with the doors and windows closed.
We've got a pepper spray in the cab of the truck, one by the camper door, and one next to the bed which (the plan is) we'd use to disable a
perpetrator and a 50-zillion-something volt stun gun to finalize the deal. We conduct practice drills and run through scenarios occasionally to
prevent self-inflicted injury, and pray we never have to use the stuff.
We are more concerned with curious soldiers at a checkpoint either spraying themselves, or getting zapped by the stun gun than we are with someone
"confiscating" them. For that reason, we keep them out of the typical spots that the guys like to search like the glovebox, or under the seat, and
disguise them as much as possible.
Others seems to feel that if they don't think about bad stuff, it won't happen to them. We're able to sleep better knowing that we put a little
thought in to our protection.
Crystal meth is prevalent in the fish camps on the Pacific between San Ignacio and Mag Bay, and is prolific in our town of San Juanico. Pangeros,
little kids we've watched grow up, wives, mothers and people you would never guess have become victims of the stuff. So far, it's only manifested in
robberies-but robbery is at ridiculously epidemic porportions.
We'd be remiss to tell someone it's ok to take his family camping to an isolated beach in Baja without a little thought put in to potentially unsafe
situations. Doesn't mean he needs to arm himself or that they should stay home.
This topic came up on another forum and someone recommended an alternative to pepper spray is a high-powered aerosol spray for hornets and wasps that
is used by electric company lineman. I guess the stuff can spray 15-20 feet and would be very unpleasant to get in your face. If asked you could say
it's just bug spray.
[Edited on 2-26-2006 by oladulce]
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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Yesturday while in a dive shop downtown around the corner from Cafe Ole in Loreto, I noted that they sell Pellet Pistols & pellet rifles. Sizes
up to 22 cal pellets. One rifle was equipped with a scope. Price about $4,400 pesos for the rifle.Box of pellets $25.00 pesos. So might be a
consideration for traveling or camping. BUT I'd hate to pull a pellet gun against a 9mm pistol the "bad guy" might be pointing at you.
[Edited on 2-26-2006 by Phil S]
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Phil; Were they 22 Cal. or 18 Cal?
Have they changed theLaw to allow the 22 Cal?
I am saddened to hear of peoples troubles in Baja. It is better when someone has a Gun pointed at you to do as they say and observ any information to
assist in catching them at a later time.
Sometimes a Fish Billy loaded with lead could be helpful aganist a person with a Knife but not a gun.
Skeet/Loreto
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Oladulce has it exactly right--------
After 55 years of travel in Baja, and as a retired Fed. Law Enforcement officer, I believe that OLADULCE has written a well thought out, and very wise
piece here, and those so inclined should take heed , and follow her advice.
I applaud her response, and agree completely, and have always taken similar precautions, and it has served me well.
Barry
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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if i had a stun gun...
susan would probably use it on me
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Malihiniman
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 12-9-2005
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I agree Barry. Pepper seems the best solution. My main question is; must it be brought across surreptisiously (smuggled). If so what is the penalty
for discovery? I am currently working on a permit...
OLADUCE, thank you for a usefull response.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Legality of Pepper spray---------
TurtleandToad says that it is illegal in Mexico------I simply do not know
Somebody else said the fine for having it is about 500 pesos ($50 USA) I don't know about that, either.
When it comes to me, or my family and friends safety, I do what I need to do, in my own opinion, and am willing to take the consequences as long as
they are manageable.
BA
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good if fishing
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Barry, slight correction; I didn't say it was illegal in Mexico, I said that it was illegal to bring it across the border (along with stun guns).
For all I know, you might be able to buy both locally. I've never looked for either because I've felt no need for it, or any other protection other
than my common sense. I travel alone, boondock on the beaches, and never had a problem.
Of course there are places where I don't boondock, primarily because of the reasons oladulce mentioned. These are mainly the San Quinten and Ensenada
areas. In these areas I stay at regular RV parks (probably surrounded by a bunch of people with bear spray and stun guns, if I need them) 
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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TandT-----that is funny
I too would not have any of that "stuff" if I were comfortable without it----that is the whole point (or problem??), I am NOT comfortable without some
sort of protection, and since the Mexican's (and Canadian's) see fit to not let me carry my usual security blanket, I look for alternatives-----and
yes, I have run wierdo's off from my camps when they obviously were up to no good------several times, over the years.
I just do not feel comfortable without SOME form of protection-----I have just seen to many bad guys, and the results of their crazyness, mainly in
the USA, but in Mexico too.
I will keep my ears tuned, and yes, I will assist you if the time comes when you need it
Also, about 90% of the time when camping I am pretty much alone in wild and wooly areas, both in the USA and Mexico. I almost never camp in RV areas,
or parks, unless in a city.
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Malihiniman
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 12-9-2005
Member Is Offline
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Couldn't have said it better than Barry
I too have extensive remote camping experience with animal and human threats. The animals worry me less then the "humans".
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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add on--------about animals and protection----
I was the bear management officer in Glacier National Park, and I NEVER went into the back country without my .41 magnum--------and no other Ranger
that I knew was EVER in the backcountry without at least a .357 Magnum.
It was only the defenseless "tourists" that were not allowed to carry arms, which I always thought was incredibly bazaar, and sure exposed the NPS for
lawsuits, IMHO. 
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Sheep or Sheepdog???
I would truly like to believe that everybody who travels (anywhere) are great folks, out to have a good time....however after 35 years of law
enforcement in California and Nevada, and 20 in the military, I find that, unfortunately, it's not the case. North of the border, I always have my
good friend, Dr. Glock (I also have pepper spray and my wife carries pepper spray). When in Baja, I ALWAYS carry pepper spray, several in the vehicle,
and my wife and I always carry it on our person. Additionally, in our vehicle, along with a well stocked first aid kit, I always carry an Olin marine
signal kit that contains a 12 gauge flare pistol and several hand launched flares. I also have a pen type flare launcher that I carry in my
pocket.....never bothered at the military check points...although I'm sure that my military ID helps. I am not looking for trouble, but it I prepare
for it. I have been travelling to Baja since 1962 and have never had an occasion to protect myself or fear for my safety, unlike several times north
of the border.....I like the idea of the wasp spray. Just remember, you can either be a sheep or a sheepdog.....I prefer to be the sheepdog.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
I was the bear management officer in Glacier National Park, and I NEVER went into the back country without my .41 magnum--------and no other Ranger
that I knew was EVER in the backcountry without at least a .357 Magnum.
It was only the defenseless "tourists" that were not allowed to carry arms, which I always thought was incredibly bazaar, and sure exposed the NPS for
lawsuits, IMHO. |
We've lived in Kalispell for over 30 years. I know some locals who pack a handgun in Glacier. I only know one person who ever fired his...that was a
local dentist...shot himself in the stomach at a backcountry campground with a big magnum. Oops!
So one wonders...maybe carrying a gun makes me safer from bears, but a bunch of other people carrying guns may be as dangerous as the bears. I'd
rather keep the tourists unarmed there.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Don Alley--------
your post points out why the "rule" still stands------apparently the majority agree with you that guns are "just bad news in the hands of tourists",
and that may very well be true.
Still, there is no way that I will hike in Glacier without a very serious weapon----------I saw several times what those bears can do-------I was
there in 1968, just after the 2 girls were partially consumed. And, the hypocracy still stands---------Rangers armed/tourists not armed.
Now, having said all that, I never had to shoot anything the entire time I was there, but I sure was totally comfortable hiking in the back country
with my cannon.
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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What a small world, Barry! We weren't up there yet for the infamous Night of the Grizzlies-- the book was chilling. The bears are certainly to be
respected and given the right of way.
Having seen crazed hikers come running down a trail wild-eyed and yelling "GRIZZLY ON THE TRAIL!!!! AAAAYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!" more than once, I
am so glad they were not carrying guns, as I think any sound on the trail could have caused them to panic and fire.
My hiking group has always appreciated seeing those good rangers of Glacier on the trail. Muchas gracias!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Paula----
If you liked "Night of the Grizzlies", did you ever read Olsen's "Slaughter the Animals, Poison the Earth"? He devoted several pages to dumb me
getting myself shot with a "coyote getter" cynanide gun outside Dinosaur National Monument, Utah-------now that was "chilling"!!! and my cannon did no
good at all!!!
I arrived in Glacier just after the bear attack, the newby on the block, so to speak. No body wanted to deal with the bears----the Ranger's were all
traumatised------so they just "appointed" me as Bear Management Officer----what a hoot, but scary. Glacier is beautiful, and lots of fun. I trapped
and "moved" 44 bears that summer of ' 68.
Thanks for the kind words.
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good if fishing
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In Glacier NP, there have been 9 bear-related deaths in a park that has hosted 55 million people in the last 65 years.
In Yellowstone there have been 6 bear-related deaths since it became a NP in 1872 (one of these was a man that kept poking the bear with his umbrella
to get it to "preform" for the camera).
Bear traps used by trappers/hunters kill more people (about 1500) than bears.
Every year, 50 thousand people lose their lives in auto-related accidents.
So we should all carry guns and wear leg armor in the woods and drive tanks on the roads. 
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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